Well, I haven't done as well with the Steve Harley plan as I had hoped, mostly because WH has not been around too much this last week, and hides when he is around. He has at least stopped breaking in to the bedroom, and mostly avoids me now. I think because he knows that I'll bring up the A.

He bristles when I ask him about his plans, and just says he doesn't know everything, he'll figure it out, quit asking him. He hasn't told me yet if the house he was looking at is going to happen or not.

He leaves me a lot of voice mails and e-mails, mostly about DS's birthday and the bike we're getting him. He left me a voice mail today saying he'd be out running errands, so the house would be vacant if I wanted to come home for lunch. He also writes a lot in the e-mails about how his day went, what cases he was working, on, etc. I think he misses having someone admiring to unload all that stuff on and brag about his cases to every night. I used to love hearing his stories, and he used to love telling them. Now OW already knows all the stories, (she's still tied in with all the people he works with), so there's no new news to tell her, nothing exciting that she hasn't already heard.


As for the "Point of No Return" stuff ... I guess that I feel that way because of the recent things with the kids. I feel like I could possibly get past the A stuff, if that's all there was to it -- but there is no excuse for using the kids as a weapon against me, and how cold and uncaring he's been towards them recently. I gave up my life for this family, and for the kids -- he's often acknowledged that, even post-A. And for him to be able to so callously rip them out from under me (or try to), knowing the pain I've suffered of already losing one child, and that I probably will never have any other children .... I don't know how I can ever get past that. That seems totally unforgivable to me.

Maybe that's just my own BS version of fog, but I just can't see how we could ever recover from that. How I could ever feel safe being a family with him ever again, knowing that he's capable of such horrible behavior towards me and the kids.

Does that make any sense? Yes, I'm absolutely still emotionally invested, and I still sob, daily, over losing my real H, the man that I thought I had married, the marriage and family that I had worked so hard at, the future that we had planned .... but I don't know if any of those things are worth living with the fear of my family being pulled out from under me again.

I would take correction or input on this from someone with more experience, though.

Orchid -- YES, I am beyond ready for Plan B. I want him gone. The bad news that I got at the lawyers office today is that I really can't force him to move out until the D is final. So I'm hoping that this house he has "in the works" goes through soon. But I am really, really ready to not have to be faced with him and his adultery on a daily basis. It's time to pull the rug out from under his cake-eating little self.

I feel a huge amount of comfort at the possibility that I have a chance with my kids now. That was a really, really huge part of the weight, the feeling of loss, the pain that I'd been feeling. I felt like I could breathe for the first time today in a long time. And the first time in a long time that I haven't asked God to just let it be over with and let me go home (please don't take that wrong -- I've never had any intention of "helping" God with that one. I'm WAY too chicken to ever hurt myself, plus I have pretty strong beliefs about what God thinks of that, and I wouldn't jeopardize my chance to get to see my son again someday -- so there's no worry about me doing anything dumb.)

I still feel very sad and hurt about WH ... but now I feel like there's something to hope for, something to fight for besides the replacable things, like money and houses, etc. There's a chance that I won't lose my kids, and that is a huge ray of hope to me, that I just didn't feel like I had anymore.

I don't really see much hope for my M ... although I tell WH that there is still hope. I don't know if I have much left at all.

Wow, this got rambling. Sorry!
I want to thank you ALL SO much for helping me keep my sanity here recently. Can't ever thank you all enough.

-AmI.

A word of caution if your lawyer hasn't already said anything - DO NOT talk with the children about their father's behavior, unless they initiate.

You do not want to appear before a judge with any sniff of "parental alienation" behavior because you would get cut off in a heartbeat.

So let them bring it up and when they ask - just shake your head, hug them, affirm your love for them and say, "I wish I knew - have you asked him?"

That way, you are clean of any kind of accusation that you would drive a wedge between them and their father. AND document all his behavior that is doing that very thing. broken promises, no shows, no calls, etc.

So .... it's about 2 am .... I just woke up for no real reason, and he's gone.

He left the front porch light on and the front door unlocked for himself ....

Yes, it still really, really bothers me.

Ami,

U never would leave the door unlocked right? So turn off the porch light, lock up the house and get some rest. Oh yea...put a chair against the door! LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

When the WS asks why....tell him there's a weird guy in the nighborhood. The neighbor's are worried he's a serial something. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Then ask if he's seen the guy......you know maybe he did....after all he does come in at those 'weird hours'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Then ask if he'd like a bowl of 'cheerios'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


L.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this hurt. His actions are cruel beyond measure. Frankly, I would not let this go on much longer... it's about time you seriously start taking steps to make this man HER problem on a full time basis...yes, I am talking about divorce.
{{{AmI}}}

From his reaction, it seems like he could just drag this out. I think that being served would be a big wake-up call for him.

AmI, have you considered writing a letter to your WH telling him what you said in that post above about how you gave up your life for him and his kids? Minus the part about probably never being able to forgive him, I think he needs to hear it. He needs to hear how much he is hurting all of you. And.. you might suggest that when people want to leave a marriage, that there are far more decent ways of doing it.

Although you are really suffering right now, I think you are growing as a person and that you will be ok. A year or two down the line, you'll back on this time and feel proud of yourself and I bet that your life will be in a pretty wonderful place then. Whether your WH will ever come around (or if you'll ever want him back) is an unknown. But what is a known is that you have been a person who showed great love and integrity and who under the worst kind of adversity, took the high road and made the best of it. I think you have a happy future in front of you. And thanks to you, those children have a chance too.

Big hugs to you.

((((((((AmI)))))))))

Good morning, sweetie! I would have turned out the light and locked the door also! I mean how unsafe is that? You have to consider yourself and those kids.

It also looks like you have some serious decisions to make about what you really want. Perhaps you should arrange another call with SH and let him know what's going on, see what he has to say about the sitch.

Thinking about you...knowing your strong enough to do whatever you decide...you've come a long way! Keep your head up, you should be proud of everything that you've done thus far!

This sounds like a Disrespectful Judgment. Is this the way you want to talk right now if you are trying to either reconcile or at least not alienate him so you can still access the children?

Would something like:
"Why didn't you come home in your uniform?" or "DD has been making all kinds of excuses up for herself of where you could have been last night, just like DS used to do for Bio-Mom. " and leave the DJ off of the statement. Let him feel guilty, not angry at you.

Thanks, all.

I did turn off the light and lock the door. I went back to bed and heard him come home shortly afterwards. Not sure why I even care, but I do. It would be so much easeir if I didn't have to face this on a daily basis.

Hi, Rin! Yes, I need to get an appointment scheduled with SH, hopefully this week. I just haven't called to schedule it yet....

Orchid ... I like that ... kind if insinuating that maybe HE'S the weird guy in the neighborhood!

GrownUp -- I did tell him all of that, in person. He just said "There was no way of doing this without hurting you." Maybe a letter would last longer or get through to him better someday ... ?

WBH -- you are very right, I probably should have said that much better and stopped at the DJ. I was just trying so hard to make myself open my mouth and say something ... next time I'll try to stop with just the facts.

MEDC -- I talked to the lawyer about filing to get him out of the house. That won't work .... so for now, I'm hoping that he gets out on his own, and I think that's likely since he's been looking at a place. I think filing is coming soon, though, regardless of whether he moves out first. I think his little leaving last night was typical WS lunacy, but I guess I didn't see it as particularly cruel -- he at least waited until everyone was asleep and came home before everyone got up. (Hmmmmm .... now it sounds like I'm defending him again .... not sure why I do that....)

K&A -- very good point about the parental alienation .... I hadn't even thought of that, but you're very right. Since I'm already walking a fine line as it is to get parenting time, I need to be careful about that.


DS's birthday is Wednesday, his party is Saturday ... so at least that's some distraction to get me through this week. WH has to work tonight, so that will be nice, and DS has a club that he goes to, so Tuesday is DD's and my "treat night". We'll make something fun and sweet. She wants to make a cake that we saw in a magazine with polka-dots made out of fruit rollups. I think WH is off on Wednesday night for DS's birthday .... we'll all go out to dinner .... I have invited the whole family so it won't just be us.

-AmI.

Just as soon as I typed the last post, guess it's time for a strategy change again.

WH IM'ed me to ask about daycare for DD this afternoon. I answered then asked him about the house he was looking at. He said it didn't work out, and he wanted to find something closer to their schools. Then said "finding another house (since I already have two) is a low priority."

So it doesn't sound like he's leaving on his own anytime soon. Time for a new strategy.

-AmI.


Edited to add -- is it time for ME to move out??? I could go stay with my mom, with my friend .... there are several places I could go to not have to have this constantly rubbed in my face. Any thoughts on that???

-AmI.

I would reply "why would it be low priority? we can't continue on like this"

what was his daycare question? it might have been a good time to prompt him about what he's gonna do about that...

And for the record (wannabophim) your response to him was exactly what steve has coached you to do. It no longer matters if its a LB. You are not in Plan A -- Steve has you in a rather special plan. Follow it!

don't move out if you want to optomize your chances of kid visitation time

Pep

DITTO LEXX

I think there's a whole lot of button pushing and cake eating going on.

I'd reply that there's no need for daycare (don't help in him any way with that), since the kids are still living in their home. I'd also recommend that since he's decided to throw away the family and turn the kids' lives upside down to be with his girlfriend, that maybe he should move in with her and give it a decent try before disrupting the kids' lives. He's owes you all that much.

Just a thought...

You might also say that you're willing to go along with the terms for the children that you had agreed to before the resumption of the affair came to light. That would make life easier for the kids and for him.

Don't move out. Keep the kids with you and keep that normalacy in their lives and yours. He's too disorganized to arrange daycare. I'd just keep on going like you are. I think it's great that you're taking a part in the b-day arrangements, just like you should. You keep acting normal. Let him act like a fool. And it's obviously getting to him that you're refusing to move out. That's why he's trying to get you to do. Don't let him force you out of your own home. He's the one who betrayed you. HE should move out. You might point out that he's the one who made the choice to leave the marriage, so it's up to him to find a new place.

It is time to expose this affair to the children. He has introduced the OW to them and they are asking certain questions. Do NOT make it comfortable for him to continue doing this to your family. He is a j-off and his children need to be told the truth in an age appropriate manner. Let them know that dad is choosing to spend his time with another woman and not with his family and that the he is acting as though he is not married.
There is nothing wrong with saying that and I would document the questions the kids have asked and your reasons for the reply. It is time to hold his nuts to the fire!

I did talk to the kids late last week .... LA had given me a great "script" ... I told them that a marriage can only be between two people, and a third person breaks the partnership. That Dad is choosing a relationship with someone else over his marriage, but that I was choosing to do everything I can to keep the family together. That I loved them and wanted us to always be a family and would always be available to them, and would never walk away from them no matter what happens.

It was actually a very stoic conversation ... much easier than I thought it would be, even though I was crying through it. Neither of them really reacted much at all -- they've known that things are not good for a while, especially since H is sleeping downstairs. They weren't really surprised. They didn't ask any questions, not even where they might live or anything like that. I think they have more confidence in me keeping us all together than I do!

MEDC .... I was wishing the other day for a protective big brother to come to my defense with WH ... any chance you're up for adoption? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Lex -- I had responded to him, said "Why would you want to continue to live in the house the way things are? The options are to work on repairing the marraige and family, or get out of the marriage and family home. Prolonging the process of tearingthe family apart is cruel." He just said "I am not going to get into this argument with you again." The daycare question was legitimate -- my mom usually watches DD after school, but is out of town today. I told him I'd come get her and work from home the rest of the afternoon.

Pep -- you have an amazing way of fitting so much wisdom into so few words..... I think you're right, I won't be moving out.

GrownUp -- yes, lots and lots of cake eating and button pushing!! He's very, very good at both. I tried the line about moving in with his girlfriend -- have suggested it several times, in fact. He says she doesn't have enough room for the kids, or he would (gag). My usual lines are "The kids don't have to go anywhere (or change their routine - depending on the topic), they have a home and they aren't the ones choosing to throw their family away." and "The kids can stay here, in their home. You're the one who needs to leave." He says he won't go anywhere without the kids, and gets back into reminding me whose kids they are.... nice, huh?


I have another appointment with SH on Friday morning. Need a new strategy, I think.

-AmI.

Well, that settles you not moving out, SuperAmI...you promised the kids you wouldn't walk away from them...

Leaving sure looks like walking away to a child.

Even the ages of your kids...

And I'm worried them not talking...from your talk...and suggest you get a family counselor (MC for family?) for all three of you...why not find a kids of divorce support group? Doesn't mean you're divorcing...does acknowledge the affair and its affects...and they are already children of divorce...living in truth...even when it's tough, beats all the other options, I've discovered.

If it helps you when he reverts to the weakest link line of "They're my kids...I'm not leaving them"...you can say, "I hear you won't leave our kids. I think that's wonderful." Remember...our daughter, our son...our lives...our marriage...our family.

Helps you keep straight on your truth, too, AmI...practice.

You're speaking...keep speaking...no, you're not defending him...you've seen him correct his behaviors...which is more than he'd done for three months...wow...you notice, you see...you're aware. Doesn't change your reality...really good to know.

Tell me, is this what his xWW did during the breakup of their marriage? Did she have an affair and refuse to leave the home? Did he experience a length of time with her flaunting the A in his face?

I'm wondering...just wondering...and no, that wasn't a fog-breaking argument (none are) for my WH...I said "What I can't comprehend is you KNEW how incredibly much this hurts and you STILL chose to do this!" I got a shrug and a stare. Hey...doesn't protect us...yet so many marry BS's and believe it does...so let that one go, 'k? Seems ironclad reality to hand to a WS, and it isn't. The fog can't be shamed or argued away at all.

And you've never been wayward, AmI. You don't know, so don't assume...and don't hurt your gorgeous head trying, 'k?

I'm with Wannabophim, I think, who pointed out the DJ...because I'm concerned about you...inside and out...and DJs hurt us as much as they hurt others...and you've got some sunk in, hard to see ones...which add to your pain. I want to see you heal yourself, from way back stuff, too, AmI...so your truth sings out of you...without fear. Not just now, but for the rest of your life.

Doesn't that proportion help at all with the right now?

Doing the right thing may look ludicrious, do it anyway.

You're doing the right thing...hold onto that, 'k? Standing in truth isn't a blooming garden...just know your actions can smell as if it is...to you. That's who matters.

You can do this. You are doing. You are.

LA

I am!
I think he's very lucky I am not your brother. I would have already made him an offer he can't refuse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA--

Leaving sure looks like walking away to a child.

You're very right. I won't move out, I just wish there was a way to reduce the daily stuff. I really need him to move out.


I'm worried them not talking...from your talk...and suggest you get a family counselor (MC for family?) for all three of you...why not find a kids of divorce support group?

That is a great idea, thank you. They both have them in their schools, so maybe I'll talk to the school counselors. WH has talked to the schools so that they can't realease the kids to me and can't give me any information, etc., (at least he said he did), but I'm sure they'd at least listen to me if I told the counselors what was going on...?

As far as the kids not talking ... I'm not sure how to explain it correctly, but it wasn't about them not wanting to talk, it was more about them not feeling worried. Like they were sure that I could fix everything, that we'd still be a family. They even both still talk about future family events, like vacations and holidays, etc .... with all four of us.

I know they heard what I was saying. I think it's related to the fact that we had a D talk with them once before, after D-Day 2, and then I was always here, anyway, and so was their dad ... and then we never did D, and I moved back in. So I'm guessing that they feel pretty comfortable about their lives not changing much even if we do D. I'm not sure that's exactly what's going on, and you're probably right that counseling would help them. I could get them in to counseling myself, just need to find a time to do it when WH won't get in the way.

Think I should get him to agree to letting them go before I just start taking them?


Tell me, is this what his xWW did during the breakup of their marriage? Did she have an affair and refuse to leave the home? Did he experience a length of time with her flaunting the A in his face?

No, she couldn't get out fast enough when he found out about her A's. She stayed one more night in the home and had an apartment the next day -- he gave her the down payment just to get her out faster, and even helped her move. They filed paperwork and she was engaged to a whole new OM (not the one she'd been caught with) within a month.


"What I can't comprehend is you KNEW how incredibly much this hurts and you STILL chose to do this!" I got a shrug and a stare.

This is exactly what happened at our house. And yes, I really thought his experience would be some protection. But it obviously hasn't been. No arguing with the fog, though ... you're right. I need to stop trying to do that.


I'm with Wannabophim, I think, who pointed out the DJ...because I'm concerned about you...inside and out...and DJs hurt us as much as they hurt others...

Yeah, I can see where I should have stopped, still could have shared truth, and probably gotten a better effect without the name calling and sarcasm. That wold be more in line with what SH had said to do ... gently, constantly just bringing up the truth. I'm finally figuring out how to open my mouth ... now I've got to learn when to close it, too!

I want to see you heal yourself, from way back stuff, too, AmI...so your truth sings out of you...without fear. Not just now, but for the rest of your life.

It sounds so easy when you say it like that.... Why does it have to be so hard in practice?


You didn't comment on my rambling rant about point of no return .... I was trying to explain what I was feeling, where that was coming from, but am not sure that I was very clear. Any thoughts on that? I know you said not to subject myself to that .... live in the present ... what I know now .... but what I know now is that I don't trust him with the kids, and that I feel like that's more important than the M .... (never would have thought I'd say that -- have I ever admitted that I never wanted kids until I got these two? And then I went and fell totally in love with them.)

-AmI.

Well, then, consider yourself adopted!! You're welcome anytime you want to stop by with an 'offer' for WH ....!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-AmI.