AmI,

KA didn't say anything that wasn't the truth! Look JUST how far you've come.

What kind of questions would LA being asking you right now? LOL

Listen to self?

Thanks, Rin.

It feels nice to have someone believing in me .... because right now, I am doubting everything I've ever thought or felt or done. I feel stupid for having hung on to any hope ...

You're a great cheerleader, you know that????

Thanks.
-Ami.

I wouldn't be cheering you on if I didn't believe that YOU can save your M.

I know the hard work involved, granted my struggle has been different but I believe that if you want something bad enough, you can do it! I see that in you!

You CAN and WILL make it in this rough time! I'm just praying that YOU can hold on a little longer!

Look how long it's been since you have had a rough day! Over a week, almost two? What?

I see the next time being a little longer that this, and the next, and the next... I said I would have Hope when you didn't have much...I will AmI, right along with some other wonderful people here!

You are a world of joy! My inspiration! I adore the way you are with your kids, the way you cook with them...

You have the patience I wish I had...LOL

You still have a few days to SH's call...any consideration on contacting OW. This should give you some motivation, doesn't it?

well, I hope that you are able to get some rest tonight! I have been cleaning house, it's almost 1, and I still have to put clean sheets on the bed!

I'm sure I'll be up in the middle of the night (as usual), so I'll be sure to check in on you!

Focus on YOU, YOU are the most important person right now!

AmI.... The advice to only "go with those who have recovered their marriages" is disrespectful to those that didn't have partners that were interested in doing so. So uning KA's advice... if your H decides to marry the OW... your advice will be useless to other BS. Very disrespectful.

SH has been very successful in what he does... but bottom line, he is not living your life right now. Only YOU know your ability to handle this pain. I suggested a while back that you take a vacation... I will make that suggestion again... and it should happen soon. You need to find a way to recharge your batteries... because, divorce or no divorce, there is a battle coming that you will need to find the strength for.

Your H is being as disrespectful as possible. I truly hope he goes through with the appointment with Sh and is able to be reached... I just have some doubts. I am happy to hear that you are continuing with your preparations... just in case. Give yourself the permission to be strong enough to speak your heart. Sh knows that you should be in a Plan B right now because of the continued assault on your feelings for your H. There will come a point, if this doesn't stop soon, that your H will not be able to reclaim the valuable love he has in you. I pray he sees your true worth before it is too late.
BE well... and take care of you today.

Hi, AmI!

Well, as for as my secret...I'm glad I didn't go tonight without checking again...tonight is not for family and friends...

The one I want is on Tues. and Thurs.

How are you doing today?

AmI,

You spoke...you brave woman opened your mouth and put your vocal chords to note how you felt, aloud.

Why not let the response (or lack of one) go? Concentrate on NOT proving your fear right...that no matter who you are, what you think, feel or believe...won't change WH...so don't share any of that...'cuz it won't get you the response you want.

Do it anyway...look up those Paradoxical Commandments...print them out and carry them with you. This isn't about you changing you...it is about sharing you. All of you. Knowing why you snap a rubberband back at yourself to get you NOT to share you. As if that protects you from more pain...when you're already full up, aren't you?

I remember WH going off on his dates...feeling killed inside...one time, I cleaned the garage in my anger/fury/fear/pain. Another time, I ate ice cream and watched tv...each time, I raged against his choices...instead of knowing reality...this is temporary...this is right now...and it's NOT about me.

Okay...I'm going to get weird on your rear...(like I'm not already)...what if you chose to see him going out your family's door for this date as him going down the rabbit hole in Alice in Wonderland? Hey, he could be swilling any bottle which seemed to fit his immediate need, all fantasy, and chasing what doesn't exist...you tell me what you feel inside of YOU when you picture him hearing you say "I feel hurt when you do this", opening the door, and him disappearing down a hole...

Tell me what you feel when you think of that. Please?

LA

Nice imagery LA...well put.

I was thinking something similar but you have nailed it so I'll defer to you with a sound "ditto".

I don't know what time WH came home last night .... his truck was there when the kids and I got up and left this morning. I'm going to a divorce support group thing tonight while thekids are in church -- even if this doesn't end in D, it will be nice to make some new IRL friends who know what it's like to be where I am. Maybe I can find some girlfriends to get out of the house with a little more often ... with and without kids.

I like the rabbit hole imagery. It makes me sad for him, kind of like looking at a drug addict, but it does help with some of the pieces I was taking back on me. That responsibility piece ... still wanting to control, cause, cure...

Last night, when I was able to open my mouth, I really wasn't expecting a response from him (new for me!). I didn't think that it would change his mind or his actions or anything else, and I was actually ok with letting go of his response. I felt good that I had said something, and hadn't turned it into a fight, and hadn't demanded a response. It felt very real, and I like that. It still hurt like crazy that he went at all ..... the rejection and total inconsideration and callousness hurt. But I didn't link that with me being able to open my mouth. So that's a big step for me, I think.

What are the Paradoxical Commandments? I'll do a search -- are they around here somewhere?

My eyes are puffy today, but I slept alright -- better than I would have expected, and I'm feeling ok today. Sometimes I wish I could just stay in bed and sleep for a whole day. That would be nice!

-AmI.

AmI,

Paradoxical Commandments...Kurt Keith...where I get my screen name.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great to know you let go juding response or lack of...and you felt some good stuff from your great choice.

"It felt very real, and I like that. It still hurt like crazy that he went at all ..... the rejection and total inconsideration and callousness hurt. But I didn't link that with me being able to open my mouth. So that's a big step for me, I think."

You felt rejection because you believe he IS rejecting you, replacing you...OUCH...doesn't go anywhere near the rabbit hole idea, does it? Can you see if you believe one thing, thoroughly, then there are others you cannot believe? You know it's about him, his fantasy drug...and the rejection, inconsideration and callousness hurt is coming from making it about you...he is rejecting your pain...not you. He is choosing to do destructive actions (thoroughly justifying so that they are not destructive in his head). Can you separate those...to see your payoff in seeing and feeling this as about you...?

I ask because I believe I used my own justification for fantasy tool as a BS, same as I did as a WS...you don't have that perspective...you didn't go that route. But if you justify your action to file for divorce, tell him off...argue or attempt to change him because of the pain you experience from seeing this as about you...wouldn't that be the same thing he is doing?

And this isn't bashing you, AmI, at all...so under my own radar I couldn't see this...and finally did, as my struggle got so intense at moments, I wanted to sleep forever, too...until I found my part, my payoff (justification for choices...when you have NO REASON to justify...your choices are sound, they are yours), then I stopped seeing and feeling rejected, not considered (this was huge) and the DJ that WH was callous...when he was far from it...and I stopped having my own justifications, so I stopped battling his.

They are as ridiculous as mine are...only I control my own...and that's where I'm heading with you...I don't believe we only do this with our spouses...we do it with our FOO, sometimes our coworkers (take what they say or do as the worst way to hurt ourselves), many times with our friends...and ourselves...

You could have the same depth of love for your partner and be amazed, stunned, incredulous...not rejected, run over or ignored...if you saw him making these choices for no real reason...and that's exactly what he's doing...there is no reason big enough to do this to your spouse...there isn't. Takes justification...which isn't real, doesn't it?

Are you doing this to teach yourself he isn't who you thought he was? That you built your love for H on actions and words?

Just curious...you're a wonderfully loved (IRL or not), accepted, admiraed and appreciated human being, AmI. You know this...know it more, 'k?

LOL (Yeah, that's profound...know it more...that's how wonderful you are...I know you get me...even if my words fail to convey well enough...you do the work...and I appreciate you.)

LA

On advice to take ...

I really appreciate EVERYONE'S input .... it makes me feel cared for and capable, and gives me so many different views that I can't see myself. This place has been a lifesaver for me, and I don't know how I would have gotten through without it. I read everything from everyone, often several times. Sometimes I'm slower to process it, or may not always do things right -- or at all -- but it all makes a huge difference to me.

Right now, it's interesting to me that many of the posts that seem to be contradictory are really saying the same thing, just in a different way. I think everyone -- including SH -- agrees that Plan B would be the best thing right now ... but how to get there isn't so clear cut in this case, and will have to involve D or LSA papers, that I will probably have to file. That part is not 100% MB-kosher ... but SH is completely on-board with it, and helping to work out that timing and what to do leading up to that. He wants me to try to hold on as long as I can, but in saying that, he's been talking about the end of the month (this week). He doesn't expect me to be able to keep stretching this out forever.

So ... "listen to SH" .... "hang in there" .... "Plan B" .... "file to get the message through" .... and "take care of yourself" .... really are all falling right in line with the current SH plan, and what I'm trying to do. And all of those messages help me keep going and getting there.

Please keep ALL the opinions coming. I feel cared for and comforted and strengthened by every single post ... whether or not I follow the advice to the letter, or "get" it right off the bat, or slap myself in the forehead a week later and realize "this is exactly what they were talking about..." or never do figure it out.

It's still all really, really valuable and precious to me.

Thanks.
-AmI.

ps -- I do have a sort of mini get-away scheduled for next week ..... my boss wants me in our Denver office for a few days, and I'm going to stretch it out a day or so on either side. I'll get to hang out with my sister, relax, not have any mom or Plan A duties .... and WH will have a taste of what it's like to try to make the family function without me.

GOOD FOR YOU! GO AmI, it's your b-day! Go AmI!

OH, I'm sorry I got caught up in the dance of JOY!

Have I told you recently how wonderful and amazing you are!

Just checking! LMAO

The latest IM with WH ... I saw his truck at lunch, drove around the hotel next door to see if I could see who he was there with .... thought about going in, but didn't. Just drove away and headed back to work. He cam online a little bit later.

ME: I saw your truck at Taco Bell at lunch. I was so curious about who you might have been there with. I thought about going in but didn't. Sometimes I wish I could get to the point where I don't care about things like that anymore.

HIM: I saw you parked behind Super 8

ME: Yeah, I thought about going in to see who you were there with.
ME: It just made my stomach turn, made me cry .... so I just wanted to get out of there.
ME: Curiosity killed the cat, right?

HIM: I don't want to fight with you. You are so much better than that

ME: I don't want to fight either.
ME: I just wish I could explain to you how much this hurts me.

HIM: so much has happened and so much is going on to the point there is no turning back.

ME: I believe there is always a point of turning back. There is always a choice that could save the family.

HIM: I know it hurts you and I never wanted that to happen. I am sooo sorry for hurting you.

ME: And I will admit that I'm still holding onto some of that hope.
ME: I feel crazy for hoping sometimes, but it's still there.

HIM: nope, its gone toooo far and there is only one way this can go now. The choice is if we are going to fight this out or go peacefully

ME: I need you to help me understand what happened. Can you at least do that for me?

HIM: I know you are the MOM to the kids and you are the greatest thing that has happened to them but if this gets ugly it won't be to their benefit.

ME: I'm tired of fighting. I don't want to do that anymore.

HIM: ya, just like I am expected to call this counselor for you and come to find out its a marriage counselor

ME: I think the call with Steve can help with that -- understanding what happened.

HIM: I agreed to do it and most likely I'll do it

ME: He is a marriage counselor, but I know this isn't marriage counseling.
ME: I have heard you say where you are with this, and I have told him where you are, too, so he knows.
ME: I just can't get past the why, and it slices my heart apart.

HIM: we went different directions. I don't hate you and thats making it harder to go this way.

ME: It's not as simple as going different directions. I need more than that.

HIM: We grew apart. There became too many things I couldn't talk to you about.

ME: Like what?

HIM: you are at work and its too upsetting for you. we can talk later

Then he signed off.
And yes, I'm sitting here bawling like a baby.

-AmI.

That was a great conversation AmI. Now you know he doesn't really want to move on but feels he's done too much to repair.

Do not give up hoe yet! That was a great deal of information on his part! I'm sure mimi, LA, PEP, or someone else will have some great advice on that note!

Hug yourself tight, you did wonderful! I am very proud of you!

((((AmIok))))

My WH wouldn't leave either for months and months and months, we existed in the same place. He wasn't going out at night and he wasn't rubbing OW in my face but he definitely was not investing in the M. I talked to SH too, I said to try and hang in there and get him to talk to SH. He wouldn't. finally things got so bad I contacted my lawyer and started to fill out the paperwork for D. FWH was fine w/it we talked about parenting time, dividing possessions and assets, set up child support and finances. Then I told him that D was so final...a last resort. I would not go any further w/ D, for me to agree to D he had 2 options. For a period no less than 3 months...1)Actively work on saving M. 2) Move out.

He chose to move out. 1 month after he was I out I went to plan B...about a month later I had the NC letter and he was begging to try and work out M. He is still out of the house.We have good days and bad days...things are getting better...but I wouldn't say we are out of the woods.

AmIok you will survive this....and thrive and be happy.

sounds more like lost hope on his side than a definite exit plan by him. He sounds tormented. Dont know his worth anymore.He knows that he is wrong. You can tell. He wont let you know though.

Hang in there.You handled yourself very well.

You will only become stronger.You just dont see it now.

AmI - Please don't believe anything your WH says. He is 100% WH right now and cannot be trusted one bit.

And please don't fall for the "oh, poor thing, he's hurting and confused, too." That is only wishful thinking on the part of the BS.

The smugness and entitlement come right through his text messages. He's in the catbird seat and he knows it, and is soaking up the mind-blowing drug of having two women who want him. Never forget this!

He's got you right where he wants you - crushed, begging, bleeding, and *out of the way.* And most of all, he's smugly enjoying the certain knowledge that you'll hang around and wait for him as long as he feels like letting you hang. It's all good for HIM.

Although it may sound strange, this is exactly why you should not yet give up hope - because you have not yet done anything that will get through to an entitled WS. (Plan A is almost never is effective by itself.) The big gun is waiting in the wings and is called Plan B. If anything is going to make a difference, THAT will do the trick.

Please read ChaCha's post again. And again. And prepare for Plan B.

And just out of curiosity - take a look at the first link in my sig line and see if it sounds familiar to you.
Mulan

I just read Noodle's interpretation and most definitely agree with it.

It's all soooo scripted. Your WH is making almost the same statements as mine did.

He wants you to you TO GIVE UP ON HIM. He wants you to be the one to GIVEUP on the marriage. That's so that he can justify to himself that what he is doing is OK.

He wants you to agree to his line that "IT'S TOO LATE"..

It's important to repeat your mantra.."It's not too late..I want to work on the marriage with you..we can have a better marriage than ever"... I kept repeating this stuff and NEVER, NEVER strayed from my lines like my FWH wanted me too.

You know what? I didn't know it then but it ALL was sinking in...

He also wants you to back off from encouraging him to talk to Steve. So did my H because he knows what Steve is going to say..Steve is going to repeat your same message..that you are able to recover your marriage...

If you have the opportunity, let him know that Steve is a marriage COACH..not a COUNSELOR..Steve stresses this...Tell him that Steve wants to hear HIS POINT OF VIEW on the marriage...

Also, remember that you are talking to him or IMing with him just after he has gotten his FIX..she is a DRUG DEALER and when he was IMing you he was HIGH off of her..YUCK..I know..but I learned to always tell...she is giving out the drugs BIG TIME over the past 24 hours...

FIGHT HER..FIGHT THIS AFFAIR BY NOT GIVING IN TO HIM..NOT GIVING UP..STAND UP FOR WHAT'S YOURS and YOUR MARRIAGE...

Am, I think, though, that you need to know who the ENEMY is..next time..get yourself together enough to walk into the TACO BELL..CATCH THEM..EXPOSE..that will help to make it the affair look, feel and smell UGLY AND STINKY to him like it is...

Agree with mimi about next time exposure opportunity.

Walk right in...especially if there is a crowd.

Let the tears roll down your face ..and be loud enough to be well heard but NOT screaming or crazy out of control.

And say..."I am so hurt by your affair with xxxxcall her by namexxxx"


Let him absorb the ugly icy stares and judgement of the world...he will be furious...but he will have experienced a moment of opportunity to see himself from the perspective of his peers.