Hi Georgia,

I hope only for the best for you.

I know you are sure that you both are ready for this, but, altough I know you <grin> LOL are not really listening to anybody here about all this... I can say this ...

You don't know Ann.

You want her to be wonderful, and the parts you have seen seem wonderful, but you don't know her. That's the risk. It's a roll of the dice at this point.

The reason I can say so definitely that you don't know her, is simply that you have not had time to get to know her - the real her - the complete her. Much of what you "know" about her, you learned from what she has told you about herself. Of course, it would be insulting to suggest that anything she told you about herself might be shaded a bit toward the more favorable light. If you are lucky, and she has been honest and forthright with you, all might be well. Still, there will be surprises, and the nature of surprises is... that they are surprising. You might anticipate some kinds of suprise and get an entirely different kind of surprise.

Honestly, I envy you. But, thinking about myself, if I were in your situation, I would have to admit that fear would be driving me to some degree. Are you afraid that if you don't hurry up, you'll lose the chance?

At our ages, it might be worth taking the risk. I don't know.

But, I'm sure that you don't know her.

I suppose that makes me arrogant or something.

Yeah, I don't know her either, nor do I really know you, so what do I know? LOL.

-AD

FWIW,

While different situations - divorce vs. death, psychologists have noted that men who were happily married and lose their wives to death, very often marry shortly thereafter. Women who were happily married and lose their husbands to death very take longer to remarry. Don't be so hard on Georgia. He's a grown man who knows his heart and his mind. He knows what he wants from life and from a partner and believes he has found it in Ann.

I once knew a woman in her 80's. She had been married 2 times in her life and lost each to death. She married her first husband after knowing him for 14 days. She said she would have married him after 5, but she couldn't find a hat she liked to wear for their wedding. They were VERY happily married. She married her second husband after knowing him distantly (he was her dead husband's cousin) for years but closely, in a relationship, for only a few weeks before they up and went on a cross country trip together. They married while on the trip. They, too, were VERY happily married. I learned many lessons about life and love and marriage from Grandma Wheat (that's what everyone called her) that I will never forget.

Regards,

BB

This is not meant to beat up on Georgia but to HELP him. Moi Nouv accurately describes the pattern of events..except he became involved with his wife's PA and did not inform us here:



Is it me or what?

Shouldn't this pattern cause concern about Georgia?

Ann is his 4th RELATIONSHIP....there may have been involvement with two women at one time....

I do wish him well.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Although this may have nothing to do with GG. and Ann, I think that if more people waited for marriage before engaging in sexual intercourse or other physical intimacy, then more people would be getting married sooner rather than later.

I think it is possibly true that those that wait until marriage a better able to get to really know each other rather than the focus sex can have once it is introduced into a new relationship.

It is probably true that many MB members did not wait until marriage and may have lived together prior to marriage. Since I am one of those, I don't think any of that helped my marriage in the long run. I have respect for those that did wait. Sex before marriage didn't necessarily helped us be more sexually compatible than had we waited. (Not that everything is based on sexual compatibility...) I would hope that should I ever marry again that I will be able to refrain prior to marriage.

I have read and heard the advice to wait a couple of years after a divorce to date or remarry. There can be wisdom in there but it probably isn't necessary for everyone.

Trix:

What is your take on Georgia "FALLING IN AND OUT OF LOVE"?

Are you saying that he wants to MARRY Ann in order to feel OK about becoming sexually intimate?

Are we assuming that there was no intimacy between Georgia and the PA and Lynn?

Out of my own self-interest, I'm trying to determine if I'm being too judgmental or if I'm missing something.

I understand about Georgia's desire not to be ALONE after being married for so many years..maybe that's the cause for his pattern.

I believe he admitted intimacy with Lynn. I would guess possibly with Lisa too but maybe not. He has said that he and Ann have a commitment to wait until marriage.

It does bother me a bit that he has been in 3 relationships since divorcing (including Lynn which started prior to DV).

I do think that Georgia had been without intimacy for several years within his marriage. They may have had sex some....I don't know, but the intimacy and relationship was way lacking for, what, the last five years?

But GG. was still commited and hoping his wife would in fact forsake all others; but she didn't. It did trouble me about Lynn. Some of your points and those of MNV were good about that has transpired since then.

I don't feel great about his grown sons having lost a bit of respect for him for his example. That was mainly started as a result of his choice to date Lynn. He is a grown man and so are they. I only hope they will workout their relationships, in time.

Unfortunately, they can say that their Dad was no better and possibly less faithful than their mom (physical infidelity whereas their mom's may have stayed in the EA fantasy zone, as far as we know). They may not know any of that information though.

It sure sounds like he has repented, sought Godly counsel, and has searched his heart. I think that he is the type of man to make a commitment and stick to it. They may have communicated much more than the average couple who 'hook up'.

Georgia is another of those who will be the one to hinder the possibility of future reconciliation with his XW should she have a complete turnaround in her attitude towards her own choices that lead to the demise of her marriage. That makes me a bit sad...but it has been said by Dr. W. Harley himself that this happens. I would rather see marriages put back together when there are childen and future grand children involved..but hey...it doesn't always happen that way.

Trix:

Thanks for sharing your perspective. It helps me with my thinking on this.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FGG, Mimi, Trix, and others,

I have been reading along as I have through most of FGG's posts since he came to this site years ago. I will say that FGG is NOT leading his life as I would lead it for him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, then who is?

I am concerned about the apparently sudden switch between women. I say apparent because I am not sure when what started where???

I will say this. If Ann is the right one, it does not take long to arrive at that decision. What really counts is his and her willingness to make this the RIGHT decision, even if it is in haste. It will have costs as both have children, and thus extended families in various parts of the country.

I will also relate that my parents met one day and were married 4 days later...twice. Once because one state did not require a waiting period and the second time for friends and family to have a more formal occasion. As I understand, there were about 250 in attendence, at the second one. They were married happily for over 45 years until the death of my father. My mother has never remarried.

What they did do, is discuss everything about their expectations of life, marriage, children, education, finances, and such and found that they agreed on most if not all of it. Apparently they both suspected they would marry the first day, and spend the next two discussing these issues.

My point??? If FGG and Ann are in agreement with the major issues of life...children, grand children, where to live, how to live, and are willing to allow the other to be their own person, I don't see the problem.

Could it blow up? Yes. Should FGG harbor any hope for is FW? In my opinion, NO! She has issues beyond the normal as far as I can tell from his postings over the years.

It seems to me we all are speculating here, and the reality is that FGG either knows what he is doing or he does not. In either case, he has learned from this site whatever it is he has learned. It is really his call.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

It's great to also hear your perspective, JL.

I'm JUST LEARNING. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As I told Georgia in a previous post, there's just soo much of his present experience that I definitely can't relate to now....

You said:



This has been a primary concern of mine. I have a hard time understanding that. I don't know if I want to understand it.

Still REALLY praying for your HAPPINESS, Georgia....

It sounds like Georgia and Ann have had lots of those kinds of discussions.

We all view this things from our own perspectives.

I worry, most definitely, about the number and relative timings of these new relationships. As far as I can tell, Lynn and Ann may have even overlapped, and remember how gaga FGG was over Lynn? Can their decision 2 cool off their relationship really have had nothing 2 do with Ann? And can FGG's decision as 2 how 2 deal with his xW really be "divorced" from his romantic distractions over the past year or so? How about his decision 2 DV, versus continue plan B for, say, another year? He was married a long time, remember. So recovery and getting back "on the market" should take accordingly long as well.

Does FGG really know the difference between loneliness and soli2de?



Love is a choice. I don't understand the urgency 2, as quickly as possible, have another romantic relationship after a DV, and especially before one.

From my own perspective, because I've been here for so bloody long, I've watched my own feelings change, come and go, whatever for over 4 and a half years now. Right now, I am struggling 2 keep my romantic love for my W alive. But I'm able 2 do that because I know that it will grow again as we heal. And in the meantime, the knowledge that I will always love her because I've made the decision 2 do so, will sustain me.

Also at the same time I've gone through these paradigm shifts and changes in perspective, I've noticed that I don't "need" SF anywhere like I used 2, and for a long time thought I always would. As a result, when we do have it lately, it's not encumbered by thoughts of guilt (that I might be perceived as using my W, for example), or accusations of "ownership" or "marriage is legalized prosti2tion". I don't think my W still thinks that way about it, but sometimes she'll say things that make it clear she's still mulling it all over.

4 and a half YEARS after d-day. Her withdrawal and recovery will take longer still. I could have given up on the marriage a long time ago, and most people would have said I would have been justified 2 do so.

But like FGG, I've got adult kids and fu2re grandkids 2 share with my W. And so long as I can 2rn the pain I've been through 2 oppor2nity for personal spiri2al growth, the prospect that we may be able 2 enjoy those grandkids 2gether becomes more likely.

Not 100% certain we will, but better than last year, which was better than the year before, etc...

-ol' 2long

I share your perspective, 2 Long.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You have chosen to identify love as your principle of action, not as your feeling of the moment. This is a wise decision, and one that not many people can or will do. When implemented, though, loving someone in this fashion keeps you personally on a much more even keel, allows you to behave in a loving manner when you don't feel loving at all at the time, and helps to keep you from wandering off on emotional tangents in search of the excitement of new romance. I'm impressed, 2long. This would be an abbreviated, even non-existent, site if everyone put this into practice!

t&l

mimi, thndr:

Thanks!

-ol' 2long

Good Morning....

I felt like I needed some reprieve from the pounding I was getting here.

Let me summarize my thoughts by saying a few things.

I am disappointed in myself with some of the things I have done. I have made some stupid mistakes, no doubt about it. Actually, I will admit to making ONE really big mistake. I hestitate to use the word "repent" as there are likely some here who may disagree / misunderstand this Christian term. But...since this is my thread..I will license myself to use that term. And...afterwards, I went to both of my sons, fessed up, and asked their forgiveness. (Ann uses the term "hitting the reset button". I like that).

It does indeed hurt me to hear the "disappointment" of some of you...but I can only say that I have brought it upon myself. Knowing that my need for "admiration" is through the roof...well, you understand.

All I can say is what I have been through is my life...like it or not...it is real. Yes, I've disappointed myself, and some around me, as well as some of you.

xW called me Monday morning at 6:00 AM hysterically crying..."how could you possibly do this?", "you never loved me, etc". And...in the course of our conversation, she told me what OM#2 has had to say about some recent things (not my M, she hadn't told him yet as she had just read my e-mail).

And...she called again at 4:00 AM this morning. I didn't answer the phone.

Somehow...someday...maybe I will come to my senses and realize that having another man in my marriage really isn't that big of a deal, right????

Georgia

P.S. - 2Long....we may disagree about many things, but you've got my respect. Beautifully said, my friend.

Georgia:

Is it worth my time and energy to continue posting to you?

I notice that you didn't mention my name specifically in your recent post.

I have some questions/thoughts/comments about the nature of your post and its content....

But if you aren't interested...resistant to "POUNDING"..who was THAT in reference to?

Oh Well...

Honestly, I have quiet a busy day....

I still really, really pray for your happiness...

I still really, really have concerns...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I hope you can get 2 a point where you realize that this isn't what that was.


Of 6 definitions for "repent," on dictionary.com, the first is:

"1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often fol. by of): He repented after his thoughtless act."

Granted, many of the definitions of the word are religious-based, but not all.


Not sure I like that metaphor at all, really. Sounds like forgetting the past. I'm sure she didn't mean it that way, though.


I'm not disappointed, and you owe me nothing anyway. I am concerned about the personal growth and recovery of a fellow human being, though. A relationship with Ann might be exactly what you need, but it is important 2 recognize the point Star made about the romantic attraction clouding one's judgement in the beginning of a relationship. Obviously, when it happens at the beginning of an affair, the danger is apparent. When the relationship is not extramarital, however, it's often misidentified as "true love" because it isn't interfering with another relationship.


Again, I'm not disappointed, just thought you would take a somewhat more methodical path.


I still wonder if there might have been hope for the M if there hadn't been other distractions for you. In any case, I think your xW is crying out, but doesn't know who 2 seek help from or even what questions she needs answered. But I'm not saying that you need 2 be the one 2 do the helping.


I have 2 admit that I'm curious. What did he have 2 say? When is he going 2 step up 2 the plate and take some responsibility for your xW? Or get out of her life and devote 2 his own W?


Obviously, that's not going 2 happen. I'd hope, rather, that she comes 2 her senses and realizes that another man in her marriage is wrong. Wrong for her H, but most importantly, wrong for her.


Thanks, but I'm just a poor humble country planetary scientist lost in the big city! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

FGG,

I don't think anybody here is saying "Georgia messed up, and I sure hope he pays!".

I, for one, am hoping and praying that all goes spendidly for you.

There is a saying "Luck favors the prepared." Perhaps you are very well prepared and will be lucky. I certainly don't know, but I'm rooting for you. And... this reminds me of a documentary I saw about the air-trafic control system a few years ago.

This was actual footage of stuff happening in control towers...

ATL was shut down completely due to a cluster of t-storms right on top of it. It was early evening and planes were really stacked up waiting for it to clear up so they could take off. The controllers suddenly said "Hey, we think we see a gap between two cells!" The pilot of the lead plane, frustrated by the wait, said "I'll try it!".

So, they cleared him and off he went - with everybody watching to see how rough it was.

In short. I'm watching. I hope it goes smoothly. Please keep posting and let us know about any turbulance.

I'm warming up my engines. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

-AD

I don't think I specifically used the word "DISAPPOINTED" in regards to you. I think that was Moi...

However, I'm GROWING in disappointment...if you don't deal with me DIRECTLY.

I have been nothing but CONCERNED about you and have wanted to DISCUSS things with you.

I have no interest in POUNDING you....and if POUNDED, why would that be a cause for not coming to the forum? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Are you saying that you only want to hear GOOD things about your actions? Are you saying that you only want us to be AGREEABLE? What are you saying? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I personally never would have GROWN here without the 2X4s!

As stated by 2Long, I've been CONCERNED about your PERSONAL GROWTH and speaking with you helps me with my own PERSONAL GROWTH....

I'm open to you disagreeing with me...Bring it on....
Believe or not, SOMETIMES I'm WRONG about SOME things!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok, my last words until you respond..no more begging from me..it's UNATTRACTIVE..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Having read most of Georgia's posts over the years, and most of the replies to him, I think he has a good chance, better than most.

He did make some grave mistakes. Notice though, he told us he needed to do the right thing, and he did so. He didn't much want to at the time. He may have been then, as has been said of him now - in a euphoric state and not all there emotionally, but he broke off the relationship because he knew it had faulty origions. He realized he had made a mistake, and he corrected it.

He came clean with us - it was hard for him, and he left out some details, but owned up to it, and he changed.

It takes a lot to do that -

I loved Star*fish's post because it brings up things that need to be talked about. Georgia can get still married if he wants, but he needs to think about all the sides.

Having watched him go through this process, I think he can do well.

Are there things he hasn't thought of?
I am sure there are. Had I know before I got married, all that I know now, I may never have married. Not knowing everything is not always a bad thing (grin)

If he had waited longer, could his W have come around and reconciled?

There's always a chance, but remember she has done this before, and has shown no sign at all that she gets it. She's upset he's getting remarried, but shows no sign of remorse, and she still communicates with OM and feels she has a right to do so.

It's always hard to know for sure, but I don't think I would have waited for her if this was my story.

One of the things we often tell BS's is to get on with their lives. I admire the way Georgia is doing that, even though he has communicated with us every step of the way that it has been difficult, and that he wished his XW would have responded.

I don't think Georgia is perfect, and perhaps waiting would have helped in the long run, but the bottom line is we don't know. I doubt if we will change his decision, so perhaps offering support will help more than anything at this point in time.

Mimi,
I won't email you tonight.
You have a good sense of humor don't you?

SS