Yes, ss, I know that. And, I know too that empirical data backs up their concerns / and fears.

I would like to leave the subject of me behind for a moment and seek the sage advice of others here regarding my DIL's brother.

I know that he is going through a lot of h3ll right now and doesn't know what to do...where to turn...what to say. His Mom told him to talk to her about menopause (I laughed), she called tonight to tell me that didn't go well.

Anyway, they are still living together in the same house with their near grown children. She is wanting to get a place of her own, sell everything, and file for D.

Realizing that he IS NOT asking for my advice...and WE ARE NOT close at all.....is there any suggestions that any of you here would offer if I were to call him up and say "hey...I know you're hurting...you want to talk over a cup of coffee?".

^^ bump ^^

I would still appreciate any thoughts....

Can you do for him what you did for others you were not close to, like the woman down your street? (Lots of people in your thread...just too early for me to think of all of them.)

LA

Good Morning, LA -

I'm not quite sure what you mean, other than just trying to be a listening ear and showing him that I care...

I know I can't solve this problem for him...but I know (as many of us do) the feeling of totally hopelessness, the feelings of rejection and panic...

His mom said he is not doing well....can't stop crying.

It is hard sometimes to get the message across to someone that there can be a plan of action...or even that you know what they are going through.

A woman at church said her husband told her he wasn't happy and wanted a divorce. She had no clue that there had been a problem. I asked if she thought he was having an affair....she was absolutely certain that he was not having an affair, that he'd never do that....I tried to tell her that his actions seemed typical of an affair. I told her about Marriage Builders, the website and forum. She wouldn't hear any of it and I doubt she ever looked at MB. Not only was he having an affair but the OW was pregnant with an OC. He re-married right after their rather quick DV. She was never able to even try and save the marriage. She and her husband had two kids together, one was a 3 yr old little boy. (Why do people think they have to leave their first family for an OC out of wedlock? Why is the OC more important than their own?) She was in tears a lot. We weren't close and she never approached me for help. She mainly wanted sympathy.

Some people aren't receptive and even if you give them a book they won't open it. Maybe it is all in the approach. I am sure you would be better at broaching the subject than I was. Since there is some connection and you can empathize with him; maybe you'll be able to help him get to a better place emotionally. It is worth a try.

Thanks Trix....

I'm thinking that right now he probably needs to hear that he can't "fix" her, and that he must take care of himself first. I know when I first heard tht message it struck me as hedonistic, but it is so true.

He owns his own business and I called just now but there was no answer. I think when I do get him, I'll invite him over to the house tomorrow night as he's likely too upset to go to a restaurant right now. Tonight I have the Bible study, and I don't really think him being there with a group of folks he doesn't know would do him any good.

Shifting back to me for a moment:

I'm having lunch today with #1S's pastor. I don't know why I didn't do that long, long ago. He and his pastor are very close, and #1S talked with my pastor a couple of weeks ago. There is no agenda here...just opening another channel of communication.

FGG,

"Realizing that he IS NOT asking for my advice...and WE ARE NOT close at all.....is there any suggestions that any of you here would offer if I were to call him up and say "hey...I know you're hurting...you want to talk over a cup of coffee?"."

I was replying to your real life offers to help...there was a woman down your street in desperate straights you invited to dinner, another fellow you had doing a little work on your house, down on his luck...gosh, I can't think of them all.

My question is why did you NOT hesitate to offer your ear to them and here you ask about a relative? Someone in a painful situation, where you have walked...and you ask if you should ask him out to coffee?

Sounds like you're concerned about this man, your DIL, her mother...you know how this ripples through lives...I'm asking you what makes this man different from those you listened to and invited to coffee or tea on your deck?

You have all the answers in you, if he asks. You have a listening heart, full of compassion. I guess I'm asking, why are you asking for permission to be who you are? Do what you do?

LA

Thanks, LA, I see what you're getting at. I feel pretty comfortable now with what I'm going to try to do...assuming I do get in touch with him.

This is another case where this is a couple that you wouuld say: No...not them!!! They always seemed so happy and "complete" when I would see them at family events and things. Just like they "fit" together.....

There seems to be an epidemic breaking out these days, doesn't it? Can we blame it on spinach somehow?

Good Morning all -

Last night was the Home Bible study (James 1:21-25). The group seemed to really "gel" and the 2 hour study turned into 3 1/2 hours. It was nice to have friends at my house. It has struck me that I'm the "senior" member of this group and leading it. All the others are in their 30's (and one enaged couple in their 20's). Humm...funny, I don't see myself as "the old guy" in the group.

I talked to Ann yesterday evening a while. She seemed so happy and seemed to be having such a good time with her D while they're on vacation together.

I also talked to the fellow that I've mentioned above. He seemed genuinely thankful that someone had called to check on him and said he may come over early next week.

And..I had a very enjoyable lunch with #1S's pastor yesterday. He seems to be quite a genuine young man, and it was a pleasure talking to him. The only real "question" I asked him about #1S was how I could help him through all the difficulty he is having. He told me just to work to keep lines of communication open and let him know that I love him.

#1S called last night and seemed quite upset. He and #1D had been on vacation. He said it was very strange that he was out of town and came back and I'd had dinner with #1D's mom, called her B which I've not had anything to do with in the past, and had lunch with his pastor. I'm really not quite sure what the concerns were, but it seemed to be that I had hatched a plan to "force" Ann on them, and he was concerned about exactly WHAT I was going to tell #1DIL's B.

I was at first upset with him that he would question me with such fervor. But later I realized how disappointed I've been in myself that I've lowered my level of "respectability" in his eyes to the point that he feels as though he has to question his dad's motives.

Sigh...

I think #1 Son is still morning the loss of your marriage.

It's good to keep your answers kindly (A soft answer turneth away wrath) no matter what he says, or does.

Realize every time you talk to him that he may still have problems with what happened.

However, I agree with your IC - continue to contact him.

Find reasons to call.......... often. Perhaps every other week if he still shows resentment. At least weekly if things are looking better.

Find something - and think carefully about this - find something to discuss that you know he will talk about. It's good if it's something he is doing. A trip he took, or is taking. "I'm so glad you got to go there, tell me what you did....."

The more contact you have, the more you show interest in him, the more you support him, the more quickly he will be at ease with your new relationship.

I also suggest Ann call him and meet he and DIL without you. Or call or write them. Writing would probably work well.

She should include these points -
1. I imagine this will be hard for you.
2. I'm sorry for the way things are.
3. I don't intend to replace your mother, I hope you continue to have a good relationship with her.
4. Though this won't be easy, I would like to get along with everyone and get to know you.
5. Because you are so important to your father, you will also be important to me. Please help create a friendly relationship - and help me know what you expect or don't expect from me.

The two of you can probably come up with a better version, but I think it would be good if she contacts them on her own. If she does, how can they be angry, or snub her?

Yes, talk to sons often, but keep it about them, and what they are doing as much as possible.

SS

Thanks, SS -

Have any suggestions about #2S?

I've called him 2X on his cell since I told him about the engagement. Both times the calls went to voice mail, I left messages, and never received a call back.

I think the message is "leave me alone".

??????

Maybe email him a short note -

"I have called you a couple of times, and not gotten a reply. Not sure if you are not getting the messages, or what.

Love to talk to you, let me know a good time, or let me know if I should leave you alone.

Love Dad"

If you get no reply, then yes - leave him alone. Except, send B day cards, and short notes from time to time on what you are doing, with no expectations of anything in return.

Halloween card
Thanksgiving card

Keep in touch, even if he won't reply. Unless he tells you not to contact him (and I bet he won't) then keep the communication lines open.

This tool is something women have used (with great success) for years, but we men are slow to pick up on. I promise it will pay off if you will keep showing you care.

Discuss all this with Ann. Probably you already are doing that.

SS

Thanks, SS....

I sent him one of those Dayspring e-cards a few days ago...with a simple "I'm thinking of you and love you both" message.

I got an auto response when he read it, but that was it.

I may take your suggestion...after a little more time has passed (next week, maybe?).

Next week is good. And yes, you don't want to do too much, too soon.

Things to "contact" him about -

Your plans - but many other things too.
Not with Ann, but other things.
You are flying to a meeting
You got a new car
Jeb had puppies (I know, but these are examples, and if we can't have a little fun with it, then........)
#1 son told you .........
You heard # 2 son was going to ........
Is he doing OK?
IS DIL fine?
Does he want your __________ because you are de cluttering, and don't need it any more.
What is the best time for you to visit around Halloween?
Ditto Thanksgiving,
Christmas, New years etc, etc, etc.

Some of this might feel strange, but this is about personal change and inprovement - we can always be better parents. I am getting most of these ideas from my own father, who worked two jobs all our growing up years and who often missed family events because of it. After he retired, he started doing these things, and it has been a really good thing for all of us. At first, it felt odd, but over the course of a few years, I started to like it. Now I can't wait for him to contact me, and I go visit him more often. Hey, wait a minute.......... do you think he is doing this on purpose???

Smile GG, it's good for you.

SS

Man...that's scarey....how did you know that my smile was missing???

Good Morning....

Jeb and I are off for a day at a National Wildlife Reserve to do some hiking.

I feel like it'lll be a day that I need to take some time away to pray and just contemplate where all of this is going......

Georgia

Since Jeb and I were near where #2S / DIL lives, I called and left a message asking if they'd like to have dinner. They called back late this afternoon and said yes.

We met and had a delightful dinner together.

My smile is back.

Yeah!

So glad you got to meet with them !

How did the rest of the weekend go?

SS

Hi SS -

Well...I'm torn as to how to answer that.

Truth is, I'm really stuggling with loneliness right now. It's a battle, but I suppose not one that's not to be expected.

I (still) have no coworkers since my colleagues were RIF'd early this year, so I still go to work in an isolated office. No one knows when I get there, no one knows when I leave. I know...most people would say that sounds like a dream job, and it really is. But...it would be nice to have someone to talk to at work at least!

But then, I come home to this house which is so quiet, so empty. Jeb is always glad to see me, he just doesn't understand. The house next door is still empty and for sale, and the one to the other side (Mrs. Reese's old house) is occupied by the young college girl.

Of course, Sunday I taught my H.S. Sunday School class, and I really get a blessing out of that. But..after church, back home again. I went to the Y and worked out Sunday afternoon which was nice.

I really miss Ann. I'm still working on the arrangements to go out west for a while and I suspect that I will be able to put that into place before the end of October.

And...the fact that I only get to have few and brief, and I do mean few and brief, encounters with my sons is very, very hard.

So..truth is, I am having a bit of a struggle right now. But...I know that things could be much, much worse and I'm trying to see all the blessings that I have.

(There..that'll teach you to ask!).

Georgia