Then there's this well-known quote of Pittman's:


-ol' 2long

This one is really cool (I'm going 2 have 2 stop flitting about the internet one of these days and buy one of his books!):


-ol' 2long

That was definitely true of me. I was happy before my marriage, but I found a unique kind of security and contentment in my life with my marriage through the love of my wife. The best part of the day was going home to my family.

The loss of my wife's love creates a terrible emptiness. Where once it was a great feeling to know I came home to a loving family, now the only one glad to see me is my son.

Hiker:

I think I understand what you're saying.

My W and DD are away on vacation 2gether until Sunday. In the last year or 2, I realized that I didn't miss my W when she's gone. This time, though I still do feel that way, I felt something else as well (probably because I wasn't fretting over that first part this time). This time, I missed my marriage.

Not that we're no longer married (though my W did say after d-day that she felt "emotionally divorced" years ago and hasn't yet said that she feels "emotionally remarried").

Just that I realize that I enjoy being married, even in the bad times. In the long haul, if we did DV, I'm pretty sure I'd remarry - though not for a while after!

-ol' 2long

Another cool Pittman quote:



Makes me wonder out loud about some MB concepts that have bothered me a bit since coming here. For example, is "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" an example of foolish romanticism?

-ol' 2long

This would go right along with Maslow's Heirarchy of Self-Actualization Theory -

Marriage being closely tied into the security/safety needs which are the most important needs we have after our biological needs have been met...and from which the rest of the heirarchy can be accomplished.

I don't believe that one has to be in a succesful marriage to satisfy the safety/security needs but it sure would be the ideal and best way for most to climb the old Self-Actualization ladder. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We all have an inate need to become the best that we can become and to give the best that we can, so satisfying our basic needs would be almost subconscious(and based on our own personality and feelings of internal security) as a way to get to the higher rungs.

And yes having to spend our precious adult time in pursuit of love is a dirty rotten shame, much better to spend that time simply being, growing and giving to others...especially our children, our community and our spouse (if we are so lucky).

2long, If you are speaking of the EN's theory, I would have to voice the same doubts.

Looking to another person to make one happy seems like an incredibly immature idea of what life is all about, including marriage.

You can however share happiness.

Putting all marriages into a box is what bothers me about some of the concepts here (15 hours a week together and the E/N's).

However the DJ/LB concept is the best I have ever read...and it really was a total surprise to me, the whole concept and what they were.

Oh and I would have to add the concept of POJA to the list of really good concepts of Harley's.

It seems like a recipe for a succesful partnership of any kind but especially a marriage. It just opens up great opportunities for creative conversation and brainstorming as well as for intimacy.

Even been trying to use it with my DD in areas where we can POJA, given that she is only 12 and doesn't have a clue. LOL

She's putty in your hands, weaver! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're right about the best of the MB concepts and methods, I think.

And I don't think it's necessarily the case that the Harley's believe that it's your spouse's responsibility 2 make you happy, make you love them... ...though they apparently did say that explicitly 2 Mark when he was discussing unconditional love with SH about 4 years ago.

Plans and empirical methods are great, and infidelity is often so predictable that these methods work well when applied 2 typical cases.

But there are exceptions, in my view. So, people like me apply the concepts we agree with, and use other concepts we find that make sense 2 us and seem consistent with the others...

and meanwhile, life goes on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

I agree with this. And if you think about it, that is probably the main reason that wayward spouses work hard to maintain secrecy in their affairs -- not because of the pain they will cause the BS, but because of the potential loss of the security derived from the love the BS gives them.

I'm not sure the EN theory requires that these needs be supplied to achieve happiness. Maybe fulfillment with the relationship is what is at stake where emotional needs are concerned.

However, I will say I do not believe that all affairs are the result of the failure to meet the WS's emotional needs. The causes of infidelity are far too complex to be explained by the EN theory alone.

Hiker:

I believe that SH himself has been quoted as saying words 2 the effect that:

Affairs don't happen because of unmet needs, they happen because of weaknesses.

I believe that is 100% correct, and that ENs have nothing 2 do with it. They may have everything 2 do with having a good marriage, particularly putting one back 2gether after an affair, though.

He may have used those exact words, but I'd have 2 do a search back a few years 2 find it again (posted by someone coaching with him, I thnk).

-ol' 2long

2long,
That's Harley Sr wise words. ...failure to guard EN instead of weakness.

I just read this http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/29/closet.murder/index.html

-rh-

That's not an "only," Hiker. It's a great blessing.

i have wondered aboutthe accuracy of the number of D and WS who marry the affair partner

the reported number seems to be too low when you consider the number of people who post here that they are D or theier WS is marrying the affair partner

A.M.Martin:

You're absolutely right!

Eav:

I agree that the reported number seems to be too low. In the last seven months I have heard of at least three marriages that occurred between affair partners. Two lasted for about 2 years and one has lasted 13 and still going.

What doesn't seem low is the percentage of failure of those relationships, whether they result in marriage or not. Overall, it still appears that only about one in ten lasts longer than two years.

And of course, you already know that Pittman says that in his experience five years after the affair most spouses are back together. But he doesn't give numbers. Strictly by definition, that could mean 51 percent end up back together.

Personally, I can't see taking someone back after an affair who has abandoned you for years.

Hello Hiker,


Unfortunately my experience is different. I know of at least three affair marriages that are still going strong. My WXH (although not married to his AP) has been living with her for eighteen months, and the affair itself has been ongoing for 22 months. There is NO SIGN of it ending soon, or ever. Perhaps it's a British thing - we are pretty much a nation of conflict avoiders after all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps we are more likely to fester in a bad affair marriage than admit a mistake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

My husband's parents divorced when he was 8 years old. His dad married the OW - they were married about 7 years, and then they divorced. Dad went back to husband's mother, and they remarried each other. Husband's mother actually stayed in Plan A for the whole time, waiting for him to come back to her!!!! Of course, this was way back before the Harley's even knew they were going to be marriage counselors......

They remain remarried to this day. Total years of marriage, about 50 I think. Not counting the 7 year "stupidity break" as MIL calls it.

SB

my H and OW have lived together for over a year now and it's been 14 months since the affair "saw the light of day" (i was the very last person to know they were seeing each other agtain...and living together)

i'm in plan B so i really can't say how things are going between them but i can say that my H hasn't come home so they seem to still be together. (she sent me an e-mail in April telling me how happy there were so they were still together then)

Alph,

I think all the statistical studies I've seen were about Americans, who, as a society, are among the most materialistic folks on earth. Getting rid of old things and replacing them with new is a way of life. That probably includes spouses! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Schoolbus:

That is an amazing story. Your MIL must be quite a woman to have found the strength to wait it out that long.

eav:

Why would the OW send you such an e-mail? Was she trying to get your goat, as they say? I would really wonder what the motivation for that was. Maybe things are not going so well and the e-mail was just a way to counter anything you might have heard from other sources.

In any case, if he doesn't come back to you, it's his loss. You will find someone better; someone that will measure up to your standard of fidelity and commitment, which is something your WH couldn't do.