Regarding that Mimi --

is there anyone here on MB who lives near Denver ? Who could help out our angel Lost !!!

carnation

Awwww guys, thanks! I so appreciate all this!

Let's see, my WH does not use a car in the city so a GPS would not work. I can and will install a keylogger. He used to use only his government computer and gov't email account but now that he is retired he does use our laptop some so I may catch something there.

In my opinion I really don't need any more proof than what I just read. My WH took his adultress girlfriend in PUBLIC and flaunted his relationship with her. Catching them in the act would only confirm what I already know. My Wh is having an affair.

I could never go to Denver this weekend. Two kids playing hockey equals 4 games this weekend. That is much more important to me right now.

I am beyond crushed that my WH would flaunt his mistress in public. I am mad right now and although I have cried over this I am not an emotional mess. It is almost a relief to KNOW that the affair is and has been ongoing.

I hope that answers everything. I will go back and read.

I so appreciate all the responses!!

I'm just still confused on what I do NOW. I KNOW WH is having an affair. This is the same person I caught him emailng LAST YEAR.

What a fool I am. He had me believing there was no OW, that he was just confused and not sure about our marriage. All that time we spent time together, he comes home every night, we ran a hockey camp together this summer, he bought me beautiful gifts for my birthday and Christmas, etc...I could go on and on.

ALL the while he had his mistress in his other back pocket. ALL the while he has evidently been parading her to places where people were told she was his girlfriend, wife, I don't know how he introduces her. Pretending to be NOT MARRIED. Pretending he didn't have a wife and three children.

If I didn't know the person he was capable of being I would be throwing in the towel now. I just don't know what to do.

Thanks again everyone!

I hear you, Lost.

The point of catching him in the act is not for PROOF of the Affair. It's for the effect of the EXPOSURE on him and her...takes away the FANTASY aspect of the affair and makes it real..can't PRETEND that they are a NORMAL couple and you do not exist.

I'm kind of biased because I think the times that I caught my H were a couple of the nails on the coffin of his affair. He could no longer DENY that what he was doing was WRONG..given the public spectacle of it all..

It will be important, I think, to rob your H of his SECRECY. He has created a SECRET LIFE that needs to be REVEALED.



You are certainly not alone, Lost. My H followed this same program as your FOR YEARS... Like your H, he denied and denied and I felt like he was emotionally not with me although he was physically present...

Ah, the gifts...that's how he justifies the A to himself...saying to himself that you want the STUFF and not HIM....YUCK...

STANDARD WS SCRIPT...YUCK...

Now I get it Mimi! It's not for the proof...it's for the exposure. I think you are right, it would take the secrecy out of their affair.

I think you said it perfectly, emotionally not with me but physically present.

I don't know why I didn't see until now that he is a standard WS.

Yuck, double yuck!

Nothing new to report. I did call the hotel today and no answer in his room and they said he was the only one in the room. I didn't expect her to be going, but you never know.

He comes home tomorrow night. I need to decide what I am going to do, say, act. I can't just let this go now that I know FOR SURE there is a OW and he is flaunting her in public. The more I think about it the madder I get.

I'll check in later. Hockey tonight!

What do you want to do?

Do you want to work on your marriage?

If so, I recommend a new PLAN A in preparation for PLAN B soon.

This will call for control of your angry feelings..NO YELLING AND/OR SCREAMING...Calmness yet ASSERTIVENESS...

You will be developing your BATTLE PLAN...you don't have enough INFORMATION yet..the word STEVE uses for Ami's situation...

You need to know you legal options..who the OW is..what his reaction will be when he comes home...

You are in charge of your destiny now because of your new MINDSET but you don't have to DO anything YET, IMO.

Check out what Steve has recommended to Ami....

((( Lost )))

I think we have spoke of this before, my son played travel hockey for over 10 years.. gosh we loved it !!
Enjoy the games.

Thank God that Mimi is here to help you... all I have are prayers to offer....

Sincerely, Carnation

Carnation - thank you for the hug! Having support here is very important to me. I have none in real life so your words mean a lot! Hockey is a great sport and both my boys play travel. I would be lost without that! We have so much fun with the teams!

Mimi - Do I want to recover my marriage? My immediate reply would have been yes without thinking before I found out this latest. I am having a hard time getting past this whole double life thing. MY WH took his mistress out in public and pretended he was not married. pretended he did not have a wife and 3 children. I have visions of an Oprah program where I am there and Oprah is asking, you mean you never knew he had a whole other life?

I can't ever Plan B because my WH refuses to move out of our home.

So if I Plan A, what does that involve? I can not and will not accomodate him. I will have a hard time even looking at him when he comes home. Of course I can work on me, but how do I live with this man?

I have read AmI's thread. Her WH at least talked to SH. He has at least admitted to having a OW. My WH will not talk to anyone and he NEVER will admit to having a OW. AmI's WH has agreed to do some reading and learning. Even though he has said he will not give up OW, at least he is doing something she wants him to do. My WH will not TALK about this OW AT ALL. NOTHING. So if he can't even acknowledge this OW how can this issue be addressed?

I KNOW there is a OW. This is a FACT. I KNOW he lies and cheats and is NOT the man I married. HOW do I Plan A this?

I was the person that believe in soulmates. I was the person that could and would hold onto my family with all my might. The protector, the one who would NEVER betray and NEVER let go. Once you have my love you will always have my love, unless you do something to destroy that and that would take a lot. I feel like my WH has crossed this line and I am struggling as to what to do.

I do want to save my marriage. I just need some help doing it.

((((Lost))))

There is NOTHING about your situation that makes you different than any other BW.

You sound almost EXACTLY like me 5 or 6 years ago.

I was the SOCCER MOM. My H had a longstanding SECRET LIFE going on over 2 years. I felt that I had NO CHOICES. I was heavily into DENYING that he was having an A. I saw myself in you many months ago. Do you remember me telling you about how I had made the mistake of ENABLING my H's affair by denying its existence..closing my eyes to the obvious...

Having a DOUBLE LIFE is STANDARD..GARDEN VARIETY INFIDELITY..that's how it's maintained...



You and me and many others would be on Oprah yelling ...NO, I DIDN'T KNOW. Remember, you are not UNIQUE....

I used to say that other stuff like you, too..all the stuff I could NEVER do.. I could NEVER do PLAN B..my H would NEVER talk to Steve Harley...

YOU WILL BE SURPRISED AT WHAT YOU CAN DO....

Your H has you as a part of his whole scheme..setting you up so that you doubt yourself and you feel like you have NO OPTIONS..that is far from the truth..DO NOT BUY INTO THIS MINDSET...

First of all, I know for sure that if he was military, you are entitled to half of his retirement and I'm sure that since you are a SAHM, you are entitled to spousal support or ALIMONY. That certainly will spoil some of their FUN....



Like all of us here did. This was TRUE for ME and all of us here. I'm not sure what your thinking is on this. This is what MBers is all about..doing PLAN A when you definitely know that your H is having an A.

I began PLAN A AFTER finding my H with the OW at a motel. He answered the door in his boxers....



This sounds just like me, too, Lost. I still feel this way and that's why I came to MBers....



Your first step in PLAN A is being RESOLVED to stick up for what you believe in, your marriage..to not sit back and let your H do this to you any longer. No, you will not accomodate him. That's not what PLAN A is all about!! What do you mean you will have a hard time looking at him? Why? Look at him straight in the face and let him know how WRONG, HURTFUL and DISGUSTING he is. He is the one that should have a hard time looking at you straight in the face.



Second step: Realize that Plan A is all about YOU. YOU are correct. You cannot FORCE him to do anything but you can be in charge of yourself.

You will STATE THE FACTS to him regardless of what he says or does not say: "I know that you are having an affair and that is not acceptable to me....say this over and over again if necessary..."You cannot deny this any longer.."

Third step requires CASH. Do you have ANY cash money available to you? You do not have to be OPEN and HONEST with your H about getting this money.

THIS IS WAR! YOU ARE BEGINNING YOUR STRATEGIC PLANNING!!

Excellent post Mimi !!!


carnation

Mimi - Thank you! I don't think I am unique or that my situation is unique, I just thought that most affairs were carried on behind closed doors. I didn't realize that WS flaunt their affair partner in public. I know that WS LIE about their real life, but I never thought my WH would DENY our existance! I never thought he would openly flaunt his mistress and pretend I don't exist. As you can see I am having a hard time with this. If I found out WH was having an affair in secret I would be devastated, but to know that he is having an affair and NOT even trying to keep it a secret to anyone except me is mind blowing to say the least.

You are right, I would be entitled to half his retirement pay and I am sure alimony and child support.

So when do I say those things to him..." I know that you are having an affair and that is not acceptable to me." When exactly do I say that? When I know that's where he is going or when I know that's where he has been?

Should I say something to him when he comes home tonight?

I could get my hands on some cash I think.

I think the problem is I have thought of myself as being in Plan A for the past year. I guess it was just Plan DENIAL. I want to face this head on now that I KNOW the affair is ongoing. I want to make this affair uncomfortable for him.

My WH is VERY good at hiding things. He has this whole other life in the city and I am not a part of any of that.

Stay with me Mimi and anyone else who is reading this. I am trying to tell myself I can do this. I can prepare for battle. I can give my marriage one last chance. I just need some help and encouragement.

I'll stay with you but may have less time TODAY after this post..H has been out of town as is returning shortly... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



Start saying this TONIGHT to him. Practice saying it so that you can be comfortable in saying it. Try not to get into a conversation with him about this. STATE THIS AS FACT. Have conversations about the weather and the hockey meeting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Don't accuse or explain or answer to his denials.

You've got it. You've been in Plan DENIAL. That's where he has wanted you. PLAN A is about YOU and what YOU choose to do to work on your marriage.

The cash is for your Private Investigator...

You will need to catch him in the city and most importantly, you will need to find out WHO SHE IS....

So you want to lay low for awhile..sit back..observe..gather your information....

He will be sloppy, not expecting you to move out of PLAN DENIAL...

Watch him. He will be PLAYING GAMES with you that you had not noticed before but now you will KNOW what's going on...

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER....

ETA: Body stance helps..HOLD YOUR HEAD UP..SHOULDERS HIGH..when talking to him....

Imagine us all standing there around you saying: "YOU GO, GIRL"...

BTW, Don't tell him about the alimony and retirement part.

That's for your own consolation when you start to thinking that you have NO OPTIONS....

Hi Lost,
Glad you are still hanging in there. Mimi is on target w/ the advice she has given. He will expect you to go on the way you have. In the fog...the sense are altered.

When he comes home after being out...sniff the air and say "you smell different....just different" (Orchid's trick)

Check out the other hockey Mom's for support or ride share. That would be a big place for exposure. Wasn't he a coach or something. You'd be surprised how much support is out there. Once word got around after I exposed...an older woman that knows & cares for us both...offered to come over anytime even 2 AM to stay w/ the kids if I wanted to go track him down. A friend from work helped me do some survailence.

Do not be embarrassed or ashamed to ask people for help. You are trying to save your family.

What happened last night when he got home?

I was wondering the same thing. Are you ok Lost??

Hi all!

WH is home from his trip. Acting all happy to see the family. Acting like absolutely nothing happened before he left. I have not said anything to him yet. We talked about the trip, the class, Denver, hockey, everything except the HUGE PINK ELEPHANT in the room!!

I'm not exactly sure when to use the phrase "I know you are having an affair and that is unacceptable to me." MOST if not ALL of the time there are kids around. When should I say this and should it be followed by any relationship conversation or not?

I WANT to say something to him, like I am not going to just let this go. Maybe that is what I should say..." I am not just going to let the information I found out go. I know you are having an affair and that is unacceptable to me." And then not say anything else. Any ideas???

Other than that I am just not sure what to do or how to act. Everything seems the same which I am sure is how he wants it. I'm sure he thinks I will just go back into denial. I can't! I just don't feel like I have a good plan. He is soooo secretive. He tells me a lot about what he does but I KNOW he is leaving out a WHOLE LOT! Like the part where he spend time with his OW.

He went to "work" today. Yea, ok, work. He just spent 2 days without OW, I am sure that is where he is going...YUCK!

You are right -- you need a plan, and you need to take action.

First of all -- have you hired a PI yet?
That should be your first step.

Have you installed the keylogger?
That is your second step.

Is there any reason you can't get BOTH of those done TODAY?
No more procrastinating. Those are YOUR actions and you need to accomplish them immediately. I sense that you are a conflict avoider. You've been talking about them, and thinking about them for days. You've been advised to do it -- you know you should -- but for some reason you haven't done them yet. Why not?

I don't think its necessary for you to confront him right now.

I can see that if you were to confront him with the small amount of information you have, he will deny or make up some story that causes you to doubt your instincts.
Which simply means he goes further underground, and its harder for you to get the information you need.

It also gains you time to gather all of your intellegience so that you can EXPOSE -- which will be your next step. As far as kids being around -- your kids are not little, they should know whats going on. They should be part of your exposure.

In the meantime, what you are doing is fine -- have nice conversations about the weather or whatever. PLAN A...meet his needs, be a great wife.

But get those first two things done -- now.

((((Lost))))
Rinderella is going through something similar on her thread she just found out her WH was in contact w/ OW#1 and he is giving his cell # out to a new woman. You may be able to get something from the advice she is getting.

I would say something like. " I know you went to XXX w/ OW. We are married its unacceptable to date.If our marriage is going to survive you can have no further contact w/ OW." Don't tell him you got it from an email if you haven't already. Let him wonder how you know. Don't ask him questions because he will lie or say nothing...frustrating you further. Get him confused so you can gather info for exposure. The more you can find out about her the better more exposure targets.

Take a deep breath you will get through this.

ETA: I agree w/ Lexxy if you tip your hand too soon he will be on gaurd and will be more difficult to get info. Hold off on confrontation until you have all the evidence you want for exposure.

What are you DOING about this?
Its time to take ACTION.

You need more than a line in an e-mail to expose him.
You could have had him followed today.

Why aren't YOU taking action?

Your older children are exposure targets -- but if you tell them that all of this is based off of an email line "nice to meet you and So-n-So" he will spin that into some other story. And you will be the crazy one.

Get evidence.