I'm very proud of you 2Much. You go girl.

Ok 2muchhrtbrk, spiil 'em beans. Whacha throw back? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Like I said he kept trying different strategies that had worked for him in the past...pity, humor, intimidation etc...I responded calmly or not at all...

at one point he asked if there was anything else I wanted to tell him to mess with him before an important meeting that he was having at work since he always accuses me of pulling this stuff right before he has important business...as if...just like all his indiscretions were planned to occur at convenient times of my day/week/month etc!!!

WH complained that he was sick to his stomach and this was nauseating him...that's when I responded..."how do you think I lost 15 pounds in 6 months after trying to lose it for 5 years without success...you taught me well, you are the master"

He also tried the "how are we ever going to come out of this friends?" to which I spewed...ask your "friends" how they would respond to all this and get back to me

Not nearly as quick and acetic as I would have liked but it was completely effective...he even joked about the new diet today...of course I didn't respond

Wow, you catch on quick. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Ok now temper it down a bit. Use his words against him but maybe with less of an attitude. That was hard for me because once I was on a roll with RB, I wanted to shove it all down his throat but WS' don't chew on stuff too well. Heck, they don't digest stuff well.....so that may account for all those 'stomach aches'. LOL!!!

Notice how it puts the guilt back on him? That's how it s/b. Keep calm. Pray for a clear mind and calm heart. Be patient. It's hard but doable.

take care,
L.

Thanks...my mind catches on pretty quick but it's the application that is difficult. I thank you for sticking with me thru this journey. I keep seeing more and more peeks of H and less of WH but not enough to make me safe or happy so things are getting a bit more business like and the squirming is beginning to escalate. Eventually something will give but I am taking some more serious steps now. Prayers for strength to back them up with my actions PLEASE!

absolutely will be praying for you!

You certainly have a clear picture. That's hard enough. Hats off to you.

When I was try to save my M, yeah I said I because as it turned out it was just me,I figured having ex there in the house was the only way I would get the chance to try to save the M. Maybe it was. When he moved out there was such relief for us all.

I know your H is out & that's good. I guess day by day is all you can do at the moment.

Update

sticking to my guns...H avoiding my dealbreaker like the plague and tried to charm his way out of me pursuing it...wrong...

short story is in enforcing my boundaries I was termed "cruel" for stating the facts and telling the truth about our relationship, the lies and infidelity...I threw some babble back

WH: I know things have been crazy but had no idea after all these years you could say such cruel things

BS: I'm sorry, I must be crazy to think infidelity is cruel
Does the truth really offend you so much?

I was given a partial confession regarding one of the dealbreaking issues but it's really just the tip of the iceberg and most likely interspersed with fiction. I will continue to defend the line and see where we get. This is some dirty business and it is definitely not helping the love bank.

I wrote a "How Dare You" letter (recommended by the book My Lover is a Liar) in which you address all of the behaviors that have infuriated, violated and enraged you. It was very therapeutic but did not turn out like I had expected. I started with nice neat hand writing and 6 pages letters in huge all caps ended. I cried on an off writing it and relived every filthy, rotten ,nasty, selfish, putrid event I endured...and these were only the major events! I am no saint but it brought clarity to me about how cyclical this behavior has been and how overtime I have been pretty consistently miserable interspersed with episodic happiness.

I would trade for the reverse having consistent happiness interspersed with episodic misery if I had to have one or the other. I am shooting for neither and would like to have a happy, safe, warm and trusting environment and a best friend to fool around with and grow old with. I am not sure that I can get that in this M.

I lost myself somewhere back there and became the "mom" and "professional". I can see where what ever was left over at the end of the day was no fun b/c I let my real self slip away. I have started scratching the surface of her and I know she is in there. I wonder if the same hasn't happened with WH and in an attempt to discover himself he went berzerk with all the admiration and attention that he hadn't been exposed to for years? I'm not sure we even want the same things from life now but wa to early to think about any of that.

Was reading LA post about being present and not wasting time and energy on thinking about future. Made lots of sense. So, that is my story for today. Don't know if H will come home or not but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it and in the meantime have some fun with my kids this w/e. Life's too short.

I am going to write a letter to my grief next...I'll keep you posted.

Awesome reverse babble, 2much! I sure understand your way of thinking with the episodic happiness. We lived that way for a long time. It is better now, though we will see what happnes in the long run.

FF,
Did you do MC/IC??? Any special techniques that have helped you through the storm? I feel like I am dealing with a child, not a husband...it makes me sad.

Just when I was about to seriously seal the D deal today and go over the LB edge I heard an episode of "Love Worth Finding" that discussed the remarkable efforts of reconciliation...I felt like it was speaking directly to me...it went on and on about wives making sure they have made every possible effort or attempt at reconciliation before ending a M even if astranged.

The episode went on to describe all of the suffering of Christ being betrayed by his best friend, all of the agony of his suffering just for us and the undying opportunity of us to reconcile with him...it stated that we could not reconcile with God unless we reconciled with the one we had wronged first...I wish my WH could have been listening...doesn't matter since he busts on me calling me a bible beater and poking fun at me about the beliefs that we used to share. I do not trust my H but I do trust God and know that he will help me do everything I can to try and be the best wife and mother I can be. I think that's what it is more about for me than just my M...I don't want to give up on WH...God doesn't give up on us...

I did a year of IC with a wonderful woman counselor. She was a Christian as well. She really helped me see my then WH through different eyes. Then during our first false recovery we began MC with a C that my IC recommended. She was awesome but after a year of C and multiple false recoveries she had to cut us loose. I really want to go back to her for more MC.

I read everything I could get my hands on the past two plus years. One of the best books was "Co-Dependent No More". That book really helped me to detach lovingly. So often we get caught up in the drama and we forget we are dealing with a level of immaturity that you would only find in a teenager. It helped me to see him that way. The main reason I hung in there so long was I felt God calling me to do so. Often when I was at the end of my rope, He would send a messenger of hope to me. I learned so much about myself and the Lord during this ordeal.

I do have to admit that my relationship with God is a bit strained right now. I love Him and know He is always faithful and loving. I also am eternally grateful to Him for carrying me through this, but I am having a dickens of a time reconcilling how He could allow the OC to be born. The child I prayed for and longed for for so long being born to someone like her and under these circumstances. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

FF,

Thanks for sharing...I can't imagine your distress with OC...I love children so much but don't know how you deal with the mixed emotions you must have.

Not to minimize your challenge but I am sure there has got to be something wonderful that will come out of all of this.

This may sound dumb but did you ever watch Joan of Arcadia? I see life and God's interactions with us much like it was depicted in this show. You may never know what other events may have happened or what great benefit your perseverance has made in the long run/big picture but I believe that his plan is much better than ours and if we trust in him he will continue to show us how awesome he really is and how he is continually there for us.

I have trouble knowing when I should intervene and what the difference between his plan and my plan are...it all boils down to my lack of faith/trust

exactly!

Ok...need help

I still have not resolved my dealbreaker...WH ignores/avoids making any committment or taking any action of his own. Basically he has said that as soon as he knows what his intentions are he will let me know...

This indecision of deciding on being a husband or batchelor has been going on since Mar 06...this was when I first began being direct about either committing to M or getting out...

I want to ask WH when good time to meet on Tuesday would be to go to the notary and have name removed from joint acct...if refuses I will go Tues and open my own acct and start process of changing direct deposit etc

I don't feel like I need to address this in any other way as he is very clear on this issue since I have now visited it twice in the past week without any clear response from him...only ideas, threats to move and basically waffling on what he wants, doesn't want etc

My other issue is how to deal with a WH who for all intense purposes does exactly what he wants and then tries to act as it everything is fine when he is at home...

Yesterday he was supposed to spend the day and eve with DS for an event...they came home early... shortly after noon and WH then proceeded to "go out"...returned about 11pm and wanted to joke and act like nothing was out of sorts...I was internally livid since he took the entire day off, came home extremely early and never considered his DDs...instead of going out to entertain himself the thought never crossed his mind to spend some time with the girls...I never mentioned this...when he left I was doing some home maintanence and he asked if I was mad that he wasn't doing it...I told him that I no longer had any expectations of him since I have tired of disappointment...I stated this in a calm voice and told him I wasn't asking him to do it and I wasn't trying to start a fight I was only stating the facts...I went on to state that in the old days when WH would see me doing something for the house/yard he would have grabbed equipment and started working alongside me...he stopped, dropped his head, paused and said, yeah you are right and...then proceeded to leave.

I don't know how to act around him anymore

I can't go on pretending everything can be ok and ignore the huge issues

I don't want to spend all of our time fighting about things that I see no actions toward working on

I am tired of waiting for him to make up his mind

I need to detach or have him leave or both

I need to settle the money issues so that I can have peace of mind to know that at least my funds aren't being squandered on others

I don't know what the best way to handle this is...I think my actions will determine how things proceed therefore I want to choose my actions carefully

I know I have tons of repressed rage, resentment, bitterness and grief but do not want to react I want to execute my plan without emotion to maintain that I mean business

I welcome any suggestions, strategies etc

From Co-Dependent No More, "Detachement is based on the premises that each person is responsible for himself, that we can't solve problems that aren't our to solve, and that worrying doesn't help. We adopt a policy of keeping our hands off other people's responsibilities and tend to our own instead." "We live our own lives to the best of our ability. We strive to ascertain what itis we can change and what we cannot change. Then we stop trying to change things we can't." "Detachment also involves accepting reality -- the facts. It requires fiath -- in ourselves, in God, in other people, and in the natural order and destiny of things in this world." [b]" Detaching does not mean we don't care. It means we learn to love, care and be involved without going crazy. We stop creating all this chaos in our minds and environments.... The rewards from detachment are great: serenity; a deep sense of peace; the ability to give and receive love in self-enhancing, engergizing ways; and the freedom to find real solutions to our problems." [b/]

BTW, the repressed rage is your taker screaming for attention. What can you do to treat yourself? Don't ignore your taker. It is screaming because you are not taking care of your own needs.

I bumped a thread of mine for you. Attachment and detaching

FF,

I am not ignoring you...I am doing my homework and trying to read the bumped thread and take care of kids/work/school etc. It is great to be so busy.

I decided to open up my own acct and not even bother revisiting issue with WH...

Strangely he is talking much more about his issues and relationships and asking my advice on handling ...his actions are showing more of an attempt at recovery...he initiated a rec activity with me and wants to do it on a recurring basis and is asking my assistance with some of his work projects...he has verbalized that he still has hope for us and wants to fall back in love...the more direct and honest I am with him the more response I get back

I have no expectations but find this at minimum interesting...it makes it easier for me to continue on my path which he can jump on at anytime

Thanks for your patience and homework...I'll update in a few days if there is anything to report

U R welcome! So glad he is at least responding to your refusal to engage in his PA stuff. I suspect that you are being the light to his darkness.

Trying hard to...I still have so many mixed emotions and they seem to attack at the most inopportune times...I am learning to wait them out b/c I find that time really does work in my benefit...if I wait long enough they surely change back to positive thoughts...life is so circular