I mean, the one you described as

"In the first few months (of separation) he resumed a R w/his 2nd XW; She wrote letters to him praying that we would D so she could have a second chance. Said she loved him and should never have let him go."

PS: your description of his manipulations before your marriage, speak clearly that actions in that department now ("i need sex, etc, etc") are just a continuation of what you already knew about him. Not a sudden "recent" development to manipulate you. He really DOES believe that he "cant do without sex".

(and believing, is half the battle, you might say)

Maybe he still can! There would be a blessing! LOL!

Yeah. Wouldn't it though. Funny how our perspective and opinion changes over time. Initially, I thought she must have been the most stupid woman in the world to let him go.

Now, I think she was pretty darn smart!!! Apparently, the old addage "absence makes the heart grow fonder" must apply here.

Seriously, though. Looking back, he has manipulated me from day one with threats of one sort or another. Because we almost didn't get married because of my past, I rolled over and played dead until I saw that he would walk over me forever if I didn't stand up for myself. Examples are the threats of leaving me if I didn't have sex before M, then it was buying expensive and utterly unnecessary vehicles. STuff w/his kids. All sorts of stuff. Now he's progressed to threats of suicide and of another A if I don't do what he wants.

I don't believe he thinks this is a problem. He definitely has some psych issues AS DO I. I know what mine stem from and I'm reading and praying and trying to work through mine. I don't know that he thinks this is a problem.

I asked him what he would do if I got ill to the extent that sex was impossible for a long period of time. What if I had to go away for an extended period of time and we couldn't be together? Would he cheat then? Of course his answer was that those situations would be different and he would handle it differently. I have no faith in that.

"Of course his answer was that those situations would be different and he would handle it differently. I have no faith in that. "

I'm surprised at his answer. But, GIVEN his answer, you might first ask "HOW would you handle it differently", and then once you get a specific answer out of him, you could suggest he do that now.
IF, you are willing to tell him that this could lead to a willingness on your part to consider things, that is.
It is unreasonable for you to both tell him "be faithful to me", and at the same time tell him, "I will never consider being with you again"

I understand your comments. My belief is that if he wanted to have a chance to work on our R, he would be doing the elementary things that would make that possible, i.e. stop talking to OW.

Again, though, as I've pointed out before, this is one of many problems. Satisfying his SF, his ENs in no way addresses issues of multiple As, verbal/physical abuse, and threats of suicide as a means to manipulate and control me.

"Again, though, as I've pointed out before, this is one of many problems. "

I agree.
So, list them all, and give him the list.

So, you're saying if I list everything that I need him to do/be to even consider a reconciliation and he says "no way" then that's my answer and I move on?

Here's what his response is going to be:
"So, I'm expected to kiss your *ss and make all these changes and then you are going to "see" if I'm good enough for you to take back?" and "So, while I'm making all these changes you still aren't going to have SF w/me."

I just don't know if all this crap is really worth it. Just don't think so.

Hm... perhaps the first things on your list should be

"You should make a serious effort to avoid making disrespectful judgments about me"

"You should make a serious effort to avoid directing angry outbursts at me"

"You should avoid making selfish demands of me".

Kinda. Although there are different types of "moving on".
As far as the divorce type of "moving on", I think the Christian mandate would be to ask him to choose either to fulfil your list, or to file for divorce himself if he wants divorce so badly.

If he refuses both, then dont talk to him or see him any more.
That's the other type of "moving on".



And? what's your point?

I've made suggestions for you on the SF area already. It's up to you whether you offer them or not.

You said you wanted this resolved. This is the only way you can resolve it with a clear concience before God and yourself. So if you really want it resolved... go resolve it.

I agree with the resolving it part.

Divorce him.

What an absolute mess.

Talked to him 2-3 times today. Toward the end of the work day he called and asked what we are doing. As I was driving to house from work to p/u my D, I called him back.

I started asking him about things he would be willing to do to make me believe there was a chance. Asked about NC w/the 4 women that I know about. To avoid the subject he asked me if I had told a family member about him.

Here's the bad part. The person who told me what he was doing w/the OW is married to a close family member of mine. So, in order not to compromise the promise I made to the one who told me all, I have to protect the truth about what she knows and how I came to know all. Oh the tangled web we weave......

Anyway, I said that I hadn't talked to this person about us. He called me a liar and immediately started getting nasty. We went through the same conversation we've had a million times. WHy do you lie? Why don't you tell the truth? My response: I can't tell you the truth b/c of what you do w/the truths I tell you. You use them against me. Told him it's ok (and it is) for him to talk to whomever he wants to. I don't do anything. But, I am not supposed to talk to anyone about our problems. Again, if he knows I talked to her he might think the person who originally told me all might have talked to me as well.

So, went to house and got D. Immediately left. He then started calling me and continued the argument. I was in a store and my D w/me but he kept on. Then, he started the threats. If it was okay for me to tell everyone about what he had done (remember - he did all this stuff in front of two cousins, a brother and his son, our next door neighbor, his daughter, told at least one friend, and God knows who else) then he would tell all about my past. One has nothing to do w/the other.

Then, he dropped the big bomb. His words: I had to make him mad, I had to keep pushing, so he would give me what I wanted. He had been telling me he was lonely. Tonight I better not call him b/c if I did he was going to be somewhere I would not want him to be and he would put her on the phone to prove it.

Told me to leave him alone and not call him again. Then, proceeded to leave me TMs and VMs. One he left was that I had even stopped fixing him a dessert that I occasionally make. I could make it for work and for the man I was chasing at work (don't have a clue what that's all about but he has been accusing me of talking to someone at work - totally untrue) but I wouldn't make it for him b/c I knew how much he liked it.

If i tell him I'm tired and am going to bed but I might mention being awake later than when I talked to him then I must have been talking to b/f on phone. If I have a reason for not staying at the house in the afternoon then I'm hurrying home so I can call or see my b/f.

Life is too short for this crap. Life is not supposed to be like this.

I really don't know what it's going to take to get my off my behind and in the lawyer's office. I do not see any hope and I don't see any reason to keep on. Whatever we had is gone; actually, we never really had what I thought we had and that's the sad reality. For him to have a A is our first year of marriage really speaks volumes for what we had to begin with.

Divorce him, L2S. Enough is enough. This has gone too far, and he is a mess. If he ever changes...great, good for him. BUT...you do NOT need this garbage. This is beyond unhealthy and your daughter needs you and your full attention. He's a grown adult and is getting WAAAY to much of your time and attention. Focus on your girl and DROP HIM! He needs bigger help than you could ever give him.

(((L2S and daughter)))

PS...check your e-mail, Sweetie.

Stupid me.
Check my email but can't figure out how to reply (LOL)! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, you are so right. Haven't talked to him today and don't intend to call. If he did what he said he was going to do it's way over.

By the grace of God I am going to take the final draft to my attorney on the way to work Monday morning.

He needs his freedom to pursue as many women as he wants. I would truly never be able to totally trust him again. And, why on earth would I want to try and build the rest of my life on shifting sand?

I need to think of my future and that of my D and my future grandchildren. I don't need him in my life in order to survive.

Now, please pray for me and please feel free to insert the qoutes above into future posts on this thread. Please remind me of my lucid moments. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We are having a family reunion today and I intend to have a wonderful time. Tomorrow is church and tomorrow afternoon our youth group is doing a mini version of the Amazing Race; I'm a driver. I intend to fill my time w/lots of fun stuff so that I don't have to think about him and go over the woulda-coulda-shoulda's in my mind all day long.

It really is like you are doing this deliberately, L2S.
He is never going to come up with the things that matter to you, by himself. He's not a mindreader.

It doesnt matter what list he comes up with, as willing to do.

What matters, is whether he is willing to do all the things that you need from him.

You are being passive-agressive about this. in your own way, you are being just as manipulative and double-handed as he is. You are not telling him what is neccesary.
You are deliberately not telling him. You are choosing not to tell him.
You are not giving him the tools fix the marriage if he is willing. yet you are trying to fully put the blame on him and setting yourself up for divorce.

Have a great time at your family reunion, today, L2S! And that is such a great idea about keeping yourself busy in order to distract your mind from the could of's, would of's, and should of's. And what better way of doing it, by spending time with your daughter and youth group from church!

You can do this, L2S!! I'm behind you all the way, and will be more than happy to quote your thoughts in the future! You're on the right track, Honey, and I'll keep praying for you!

(((L2S))) Hang in there!

Jenn. Thanks.

Techie,
I KNOW this man. You do not. Here's an example of what goes on w/him.

You can see from my post last night that he told me what he intended to do and that I was to leave him alone. So, I did. I did not attempt to contact him in any way.

This morning, he starts leaving VMs. If I needed someone to talk to if I got upset at the family reunion (first one in 9 years and olders uncles not in best of shape) he would be there for me. Then, VM that I could use our digital camera if I needed it.

Then, they started to turn nasty (guess b/c I wasn't responding). Left a VM (but I believe w/everything in me that he went into my mailbox and listened b/c I never got it) about being sick and needing advice about any medicine we may have at home. When I got it I tried to call him on home and cell phones; no answer so left message. Then, got another angry VM cursing me out, telling me what a low life I am. Telling me that I was being nasty to him and trying to do whatever I could to get revenge and that he would show me what getting revenge looked like. He was going to tell all about my past.

Talked to him a few minutes ago and more of the same. He is going to show up at church tomorrow and confront me in front of everyone. He knows that I'm still talking to guy at church and knows I've had a PA w/him. (So wrong. Can't remember last time I even said hello to the guy - can't remember the last time I saw him b/c my H's threats have kept me out of church more than I've been) Then he is going out of town w/OW. Then, on Monday he is going to come to my office and confront me w/the person I told about some man where I work that I'm talking to. This is so fabricated.

Anyway, Techie - This is what I'm dealing with.

Said he was going to prosecute me for having a tape at the house and that if everything wasn't just as he wanted it in the D papers, he would see to it that I didn't get sh*t.

I'm done. God willing, the final draft will be in the attorney's hands Monday morning. I have been threatened and cheated on my last time. If I'm wrong in Ding him then I sincerely pray that God will forgive me but, I cannot live this way any longer.

So, this morning starts calling again. Stupid (me) returned the call. Well, now he wants again to work on everything. He was just trying to hurt me and didn't really go see anyone Fri night. He isn't really going out of town w/OW today.

Told me he would write NC letters. Told me he would get counseling.

I told him..............
I am going to church today and will be at a youth function w/my D until around 8pm tonight. I intend to be in prayer about our R all day and, if I still feel the same way I do now, I will go by the attorney's office on the way to work and give him the final draft so that a final settlement can be prepared for us to sign.

I really don't want to live like this anymore. I'm so tired of being manipulated. I'm just tired.

Prayers needed and welcomed.

So, when I got to church he was there w/his brother. I dropped my D and left. Had to take care of a couple of things for the afternoon youth group function before church started. He followed me.

Called me 2-3 times until I finally answered. Told him where I was going so he followed me there. Got out and came to car. Same old stuff. Accusing me of all sorts of stuff. Got mad and started cursing. Told him I intended to pray today for God's guidance of where we should go w/this M. Again, he said he would be willing to write NC letters and go to counseling.

Asked me if I was going to church and I told him I was. He got mad and slammed my door, got in his car and drove off.
Then, started calling and TMing that he loved me.

This is so hard. I love him but I really believe we've allowed too much to go on for too long to be able to successfully put our M back together. I have had so much fun the last 3 weeks doing things on the weekend and not having to worry if I was going to make him mad or if I said or did the wrong thing or looked at him wrong,etc. It was so liberating.

Now, though he's back to packing my stuff up if I say I want a D. I'm so sick of his threats. It's a threat to commit suicide, threat to expose my past, threat to pack my things or throw them in the yard, threats to have another A if I won't have sex, threats to confront me at church, at owrk. Just one after another. It gets old.

I want to file but I"m scared to b/c I know he's going to be a jerk when I do. I'm not looking forward to it.

L2S - d yourself a favour and put Techie on ignore. Works for me.

Pray for God's guidance??

There's a story, about a man living in a house, with a flood coming. He's an old man, loves God, but cant get around much.
The police come around, and tell him, "hi there Grandpa... the flood is coming, it's time to go. we can take you in our squad car". But he replies, "oh no thank you, God will take care of me".

The flood waters start rising, and he has to go to the second floor of his house. A boat comes along, and the people call to him, "Helllooo? Do you need help? we can take you with us!" But he replies, "oh no thank you, God will take care of me".

Finally, the flood waters reach so high, he has to get on the roof of his house. a helicopter comes by, and drops a ladder to him, and calls, "hang on to this,a nd we can take you to safety!" But her replies, "oh no thank you, God will take care of me".

SO... the flood gets higher, and the man drowns!
He was favoured by being taken into heaven, and is given an audience at the throne. ANd so he asks God,
"Oh Lord God, I have tried to be faithful to you my entire life, and believe in you, and trusted you. Why did you not take care of me in my time of need?"

God replies to him, "not take care of you? I sent you a police car, and a boat, and a helicopter!"



God has given you plenty of guidance on what to do now. You just have your fingers in your ears, because you've decided not to listen to Him. He has brought your husband to the point where he is willing to have full NC, and go to counselling. He did not used to be that way.
If you are being honest about "looking for God's guidance", it is time to start practicing what you preach, and follow the signs that God is showing you.
Give your husband the chance to make good on his promises, and make sure he also promises to do everything else that you need him to do, to feel ok about recovering your marriage.
Your husband may or may not follow through. That is his trial and test from God.
yours, is whether you allow him to try.