Hmmm...

How does one summarize a year in a few short paragraphs. (especially at 1:00 in the morning)

I met M at Park District Youth Band concert. My daughter's best friend's mom introduced us. I never thought we were a perfect match, but then how often to we find the perfect one? After dating for about a month and a half, she brought up the idea of being exclusive with each other.

My thought is that once you have "the talk" when you are multiple dating, you either need to become exclusive or you need to break up with them. I don't think when one person wants to be exclusive and the other doesn't, that the relationship will last. It's just too hard on the one who wants to be exclusive.

Because I thought my experience with her would be good for working on being honest about what I want out of a relationship, I broke things off with the other women I was seeing.

Things went pretty well until the first time she broke up with me. I actually don't remember the specifics. Suffice it to say, M has a quick hot temper. And, if the stars line up (ie stress, lack of sleep, that time of the month) she has what I consider to be the perfect storm of temper explosions.

We patched things up after she calmed down the next day. But I told her she only got to break up with me once. If only I had stayed true to my word.

Things go along fine, we have fun together. Our kids do fairly well together. Then it was my turn to break up with her. One evening, I went outside to do yard work. She called numerous times, but of course, I didn't have the phone with me. Later she comes barreling into my driveway very upset. I didn't answer the phone when she called so she assumed I was fooling around on her even though we had talked earlier that afternoon and I told her I would be outside. I decided that was just a little too psycho and told her we shouldn't be together. After she apologized and we talked, I decided to try to work things out.

Again, things are fine until the second time she broke up with me. We had plans to go out with a mutual female friend one weekend. M ended up working 60 hours of overtime the week prior, often with just a couple hours of sleep. The night we were to go out, M had to work more overtime. Our friend still wanted to go out because she was depressed and I asked M if it was ok with her. She said 'do what you want'. I asked her again specifically and told her if she was uncomfortable with it, I wouldn't go out. Got the same answer. When she got off work that night she broke up with me because I was supposed to 'know' that she didn't really want me to go out. Again, when she calmed down we patched things up.

A month later we went to a small amusement park with members of her family for a weekend trip. We let the older kids go on their own in groups. Her sister who put the trip together laid down vague instructions about checking back in at a certain place, but didn't give instructions about when we were to get together to leave. After it got dark, we began looking for the kids but didn't come across one group. M's daughter and my daughter were in the group. M looked and looked and the more she looked, the more agitated she became. When we found them, M grounded her daughter, but I didn't think the kids should get into trouble because they didn't have specific instructions about when to check in. I didn't ground my daughter. Of the parents, M was the only one to become upset. She broke up with me a third time then and there and continued breaking up with me in the truck on the way home. Again, like a storm, I weathered it out and by morning we talked and mostly patched things together.

Things became different after that point. We had been spending a lot of time together and the kids were beginning to fight more often. M accused my kids of trying to disrupt our relationship and she didn't want to get us all together again for awhile. To be fair, M told me about something my daughter told her daughter about my previous relationship (which only my daughter could know) in which my daughter tried and did manipulate me because she didn't like my having a girlfriend.

After that, M continued focusing on things she believed she couldn't live with compatibility wise. One of things she focused on was my parenting skills. M is quick to punish, whereas I talk to my kids. I try to stay out of my kids disputes and let them work it out themselves. M referees all her kids disputes. M hovers over her children extremely and doesn't trust them, I tell my children what I expect from them, give them freedom, watch for signs if they stray, and punish sternly if they deviate. M considers this to be a lack of concern on my part.

Anyway, this brings us to the fourth and final break up. Her son recently joined cub scouts. They have a day camp this weekend. M learned on Monday that her son was expecting his father to take him. M called his father and he said he wasn't going to. This made her very upset. She also started that time of the month on Monday. When I picked her up at lunch, I made an off handed comment about her son and she immediately launched into giving me her opinion about my parenting skills or lack thereof. Criticising how I raise my children pushes my buttons, so I fought back. Perfect storm extraordinaire. She broke up with me and hasn't talked to me since.

Except for tonight. I thought she had called my house and I returned the call. As it turns out, she didn't call. She was cordial enough, but gave no indication that she wants to get back together. Which is fine.

I know in my head that the obstacles for us to make a long term relationship work are tremendous. We just aren't compatible enough. But still, it hurts. I miss her.

I believe we can still be friends, but we'll have to see how that goes. In the mean time, I have to move on.

So, that's my story in the bare essentials. Numerous things left out. But I need to head to bed.

Hi BG,

I don't know your story very well but just from what you said,I wanted to back away from my computer.Too much "drama"? or intense emotion going on there,it sounds.And all those break ups? Yikes.Not a healthy way to address or handle problems.I'm sorry that you are sad.

I did want to point out an interesting thing that went on in another thread similar to what you went through.



I think it was a good idea to ask M if she was ok dealing with going out with the other friend and if she'd be ok with that.It was common sense/care after the initial plans fell through.You cared enough about her to ask how she was feeling about it.

But the "you were supposed to know" that she didn't really want you to go is just mind games IMO.That's an instance where if she were just honest right up front instead of handing you a loaded answer (do what you want),you both could have avoided all the intensity and another break up.

It sounds like M has a lot of distrust and anger issues not to mention lack of communication skills.Was she cheated on before? Incidentally,what was the "offhanded" comment you made about her son?

Yes, a lot of distrust and anger issues and frankly a lot of issues in general. And yes, cheated on. She's a good person but has had to deal with a really crappy start in life. The last 7 years of her life has been very functional, so I thought it was worth the effort.

Her son got mad at his sister and threw a shirt with a metal hanger at her. (he's inherited his mother's anger tendencies) It cut the back of her head enough to bleed. M was threatening not to allow her son to go to the cub scout camp. She said her son said his dad would take him. In the past, when she refused to buy something for him, he goes to his dad and his dad buys it for him. I thought this was a similar situation. Anyway, my specific comment was "and that was when he back talked you?", meaning he said he said he was going to go around her decision to his dad.

In the course of our argument, she explained that her son had just made the assumption that his dad was going to take him. M was feeling really bad (and extremely angry) because his dad will give him money, but never his time. I apologized for my assumption.

so sorry BigGuy.

It doesn't sound like a healthy relationship - but it still hurts.

When you start comparing kids and parenting, (holy cow!) can things go downhill fast!

Previous BF's have made comments about my kids and I can get fiercly defensive about it. I have found this is one area that I have trouble hearing critisism.

I recognize that I have trouble in this area -- but I still find I have to WORK at staying calm when a SO starts stepping into what I "should" do with my kids.
My initial instinct is to put my defenses up right away. I really have to try to be open-minded and listen to what might be good advice.

There's a real conundrum here -- do you date someone who also has kids because they can relate better to your struggles, schedules, and priorities? Or is it better to date someone childless, because you don't have to deal with the comparing, competition, and critisism of parenting styles?

Hey Bud,

Well, I might be the pot calling the kettle black, after spending nine months in a what-I-thought-was-perfect-but-turned-out-to-be-wrong relationship, buuuuut:


IMHO, that should have been the end of it. Most books consider an explosive temper to be a sign of a "bad news" person, someone with whom it is not possible to build a healthy relationship.

Sorry you had to go through it so many times before calling it quits. Sounds like you really tried, and you obviously miss her.

Next time, post your story as it unfolds, you can always count on us to save you pain (and time) by yelling out "red flag!! red flag!!!" before you yourself even see them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

We also tell people when they are over-reacting. So it isn't all raining on the parade.

Thank you for all your concerns and words of encouragement.

Yeah, I saw the red flags from the beginning and I always thought the chances of it working were pretty slim. I don't think I ever invested emotionally as much in M as my previous girlfriend with whom I was in just a two month relationship. So, I feel bad, but not nearly as bad as I did then.

To be fair, we had a lot of good times together. Just like in the history books, more was written about the wars than the peace.

She was a challenge for me to stand up for myself. I wish I could say that I always did a good job of it, but that wasn't the case. All in all a good experience.

The consolation this time (as opposed to my previous gf who just stopped returning my phone calls) is that I think we will still be able to remain friends. We need some time apart, but eventually I am confident it will happen.

a happy ending...

That's always a plus when you can both recognize its just not working, agree to part, and look back on the good stuff.

Okay... so she calls me today...

She called me this morning to see if I wanted copies of photos we'd taken on a trip to her company picnic. I said I did. We talked for awhile about what happened with her in her life this week and about what happened in mine.

Then she called me this evening...

We talked more about our relationship in this conversation. In addition to the parenting issue, she told me tonight that she wants someone who is 'tough' but nice to her... and that I just let people walk all over me. I will be the first to admit that I am very patient. Easy going and patient... that's me. And perhaps I do give people a pass when they treat me poorly more often than I should. The whole turn the cheek thing. But you know what? I decided a long time ago that life is too short to get worked up about the shortcomings of other people. There are important things to get worked up about, but they are usually far and few in between.

So, she says the easy going patient thing is letting people walk on me and that's not what she wants. I told her that being tough isn't about getting into fights, telling people off, or being antisocial. People deal with conflict differently, and that I deal with conflict in the manner that is best for me.

Just to refresh everybody's memory, she is a classic TAKER and I am a classic GIVER. She constantly pushed to see what I would put up with. I wish I could say that I held my ground all the time, but I didn't. Meh, life is a learning experience.

We didn't argue. I told her that I missed her and still cared a lot about her. She said she thought about me and cares for me. I said again that I hoped we could be friends and she said the same.

Then she called me tonight...

She told me that I needed to tell her if I was coming over to talk because otherwise she was going to her parent's house. That caught me off guard because we hadn't talked about getting together to talk.

Anyway, I said that I wasn't coming over. She asked why. I said that she is tired, that I am tired, and that I still had issues. She asked what issues and I said that I still have a lot of feelings about wanting things the way they were. I told her that we can't go back to where we were because of the parenting issue. I told her that she and I have to start our relationship from scratch and figure out just what we are to each other, and that is going to take a little more time on my part. Not that I don't want to see her, just not tonight.

Well, she was miffed. She said jump and I didn't jump. Perhaps I might have if I hadn't talked to another friend this evening who reminded me about the GIVE/TAKER dynamic.

She also has the whole "want what I can't have" thing going on too in her recent relationship history.

So, I'm trying to stay focused on what it is that I want in relationships. Trying to follow what my head wants instead of what my heart wants in this one.

I hope we can be friends, but it might get complicated if she ends up wanting me back because she can't have me. Like I said, we have to start from scratch and see what unfolds.

I didn't comment on this when you first floated the "friends" idea, but you really cannot successfully go overnight from being lovers for a year to being "friends". Your comments above clearly show your and her confusion on this whole thing.

You should take some time for yourself, and let things settle. Perhaps after a few months, you might be friends, though it rarely really works - usually one person wants to get back together.

But you would definitely be walking through a minefield trying to simultaneously unentangle yourself from her, and build a "friendship", especially if you keep talking about "starting your relationship from scratch", which I am sure confuses everyone involved.

AGG

Yeah, but I can defy the odds because I'm special...

No, I know the probability for us to remain friends is low. The question is, do you not try because it probably wont work.

It won't hurt to try, but after some time has passed and the dust has settled, not when there is still obvious confusion about your "status" with her, and talk about "starting the relationship". It is way too confusing.

AGG

Yes, I suppose...

Kinda like turning on the ignition key after the car has overheated? Best to wait until the motor cools down. I can see the value in that. Difficult to start a 'new' relationship with someone while residual feelings of the old one are still banging around your heart. I can see how things can get confusing.

Not what I want to hear, but I understand the need to hear it. Thanks.

She called me again last night...

She wanted me to come over. We talked for an hour and a half and I explained to her why I didn't think our relationship would work out. She agreed, but still wanted me to come over. I said that I didn't think it was in my best interest or hers if I did that.

I don't know.. I got the feeling while talking to her, it wasn't really about wanting me, but rather a warm body or maybe even the satisfaction or confirmation that I am a spineless weenie who can't stand up to anybody.

Anyway, our conversation caused me see her in a different light.

You never know a person till you break up with them, as you are finding out.

I am seeing the same exact thing with G these days, yikes - but that is a whole other story.

AGG

Actually, I guess it wasn't so much a feeling as it was she came right out and said "I don't want you"... and, "nows not the time you should be growing a spine". Hoo boy, yeah, that makes me want to run right over to be with you. She must really believe I have 'idiot' written on my forehead.

AGG, I've been curious, how did you and G meet?

BigGuy;
It might be an ego thing too. No gal likes to be easily gotten over. Sometimes its easier too if they think its their decision rather than yours.

(soooo...AGG, sounds like some more stuff going on with G???)

I agree w/ Lexxxy here too BGuy and she sounds like she's exhibiting classic behavior--wanting what she can't have and hey! here's the guy who she thought couldn't stand up for himself, standing up for himself! How sexy is that?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> From what you've written, she sounds like she's got some healing and growth ahead of her and you are better off remaining apart.

I'm sorry, cuz I know how hard it is.....

ruh roh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Hope things aren't getting unpleasant AGG.....

So wazzup? DISH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We met on Eharmony; you know, we matched 28 out of 29 areas of compatibility... They didn't tell me that the missing one was "normalcy", which seemed to be missing in her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Unlike M, G has now told me that she has had an epiphany and a new lease on life and wants to lead her life exactly the way I want to lead mine (what a coincidence) and that then all would be well. And that's after arguing with me for nine months that she likes her lifestyle and I just need to accept it. Ugh.

AGG