I need some motivation, inspiration, encouragement, all of it...

Some of you saw my earlier post. My WH of 16 years has had an EA since June. He says it is over but my trust in him is just gone. He moved into an apartment for 3 months to live on his own for the first time. He is in a mid-life crisis, that's for sure (he's 43). We do not have children. By the way, OW has 2 children and he says he feels very attached to them. His moving out devastated me but I did a darn good Plan A and he was starting to move toward me. I was finally learning to detach.

Then, before the 3 months were up, he decided to go work for his multi-millionaire friend who owns properties all over the world. He quit his job and is getting ready to move to a different state where the friend lives. That in itself makes no sense since he'll be traveling almost constantly but his friend does NOT like me, so I really think that's behind the demand that H move to this guy's state. I was devastated. My Plan A fell apart and things didn't go too well between the 2 of us. He has already left on his first trip abroad. All of this happened in 2 weeks.

Before he left we went on vacation with out-of-state friends (the trip was planned almost a year ago). My IC said to do my best to have fun so he would remember me that way. Well, that was really tough to do since I kept catching him text messaging all the time (it might have been to OW or maybe not). He started to cry near the end and said he's very scared he is risking losing me by trying to find himself. He says he doesn't want to give up on the marriage and still wants to "try". I don't understand how a marriage can work when it's already on the rocks and then we live apart and don't see each other for weeks (or months) at a time.

He has contacted me 3 times via email. He says he misses me terribly and is starting to have "emotional thoughts" about us. He says he really wants to talk w/me and is going to try to call soon.

I know what I need to do - work on me, concentrate on what I want to do, protect myself financially (I'm separating credit cards, etc.), stop obsessing, interact with people, go to church, read, etc. I go to a support group for those who are separated/divorced, I'm going to try to invite friends over to the house, etc.

I am trying so hard. Today I went to a friend's child christening (they are actually WH's friends, but not any longer-they don't want anything to do with him), went to a restaurant with them, talked to friends on the phone, worked on the house, took pictures of the sunset, etc., but I now feel so sad. I turned on the radio and heard our wedding song. This whole thing just hurts so much. I'm not ready yet for Plan B. I guess I need to continue doing a good Plan A but I do not/cannot plan for it to go on indefinitely. He knows I'm off for 2 weeks at XMAS time so the ball is in his court if he makes time for me/us.

If I just give up on us because I can't take the pain anymore, I know the escape isn't the right answer. I know divorce is so incredibly painful too.

I love him so much, but I really don't know who he is anymore. I think I could hang in a little longer if I knew OW was really gone, as he says she is. The wacky part is that I can find out - I have his latest pager bill that just came but I can't make myself look at it. I used to check the records online and now I have such extreme anxiety, even thinking about it (as I type this right now), that I can't handle it.

I just need help, support - I am strong at times, but I wonder if I am just fooling myself.

Thank you for anything you can say to keep me from running away from the 21 years with this man.

Well I can say - stick with it - I am four years into saving a 21 year marriage. I was plan Aing for two years before I found this site! I just didn't know it.

My instinct was to show him all the loving I could but absolutely not tolerate the A and to expose to everyone. Boy was i unpopular. If I had found this site earlier it would have given me comfort and guidance. You are here and we will support you.

You can be strong, read that bill, just tell yourself over and over that you can do this, you can stay calm through this, You have time for him to find your M again. I figure 4 years is nothing compared to 21 years getting here and the rest of our lives, so I am not giving up, and don't you. I will keep tabs on you daily to see how you are doing.

Do not lie to yourself by telling yourself you cannot do this. We are woman and we can do it.

How familiar are you with intricacies of plan A? I had to do it long distance when mine was away, it was very very hard, and I did it by "playing the line" as in fishing. I didn't know it at the time but it was working much better than I knew. They hide it from you when they are in the fog.

If you are interested I will tell you how. If I am not on here you can email me and tell me to get on the board.

Linda

Hi Linda,

Thanks for the "boost". I understand Plan A very well - I have been on this site for a while and have studied everything I can. I really did a nice Plan A until he told me about his plans and then I just fell apart. I do think that it is too premature for Plan B.

I did hear from him last night. He text messaged me and I tried to be friendly but detached (hard to do via text message!). He immediately wrote that something seemed strange and he wanted to be sure I was really ok. Interesting...

He asked me to try his phone (he's out of the country) because he was trying to dial me and couldn't. We spoke for about 3 minutes. I was upbeat and happy. It was so hard. We were like 2 strangers on the phone. He was however struggling to find his friends and luggage at the airport, so his distraction is understandable (especially because he has ADD!).

I told my IC that it just doesn't feel like enough. I had received one e-mail at the time I told him that. He said to just watch it play out, that I'll know when he is really trying. Well, he has written a few e-mails and several text messages, and now he's in a remote area for 2 weeks with likely no service. So I guess he is trying...but it just doesn't feel like enough, but I have to remember that we were separated when he left, so I guess it's not all going to be lovey dovey.

He does say he loves me each time we talk and that he misses me. I just don't want to be pulled back in with the slightest inkling of hope to just be disappointed again. I am mad at myself for my paranoia that she's still in the picture. She may be - she may not be, and I understand that he took the trust away but I tend to overanalyze everything and think of the possibilities that he's contacting her (like every delay in the text message last night I envisioned him writing her at the same time he was writing me. He has done that before, by the way.

Please, yes, tell me how to do a Plan A from a distance. Was I "fishing" last night by being somewhat detached, not wordy, in my messages to him which is what made him think something was strange?

Did he separate from you, is that why he was away? How do you know it worked? Is that what you think brought him back?

I definitely want to write to you also but I thought I'd respond here so that others can hear your comments about how to Plan A long distance.

Linda, thank you so much for keeping tabs on me. I need someone to talk to who understands. I think I have completely burned my (wonderful) friends out!

My friends are few that I could talk to - I am not from the US and coming at a late age as I did, most I met had aleady got their life long best friend. So I understand the "burn out".

Initially, I had been desperate for him to tell me everything, and eventually did get all my questions answered. I also became the queen of detectives and confronted him when I found a discrepancy. I was the best wife/lover/friend to him I could be when he was home. In plan A I called when he asked and never complained when he said it was inconvenient and could he call me back, even when I could hear the party in the background. I acted very concerned that I not tire him as he was working a lot of hours when away (his story) and I always finished the conversation as soon as he showed any sign of having finished talking. I complimented hm and returned his lovey words even though i didn't believe one of them. It made me sick to my stomach, but I did it. So I plan Ad him when away by being his dream wife - never complaining, always encouraging and accepting and always grateful for the time he spent on the phone with me, saying how I didn't want to take take up his rest time, etc. Plan A was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. The hardest. All this time he was deceitful and cruel to me in word and deed.

You do not have to email me - only if I do not reply for a day and you want to wake me up. Discussion here is always better. I know I have had some huge breakthroughs reading responses to others threads, so we may never know what we do or don't say that might help another.

Linda

So then what happened? Did he finally come to his senses? I was reading what you posted about the 180 approach (which I had read previously and am trying to follow) but I do say I love you (after he does, according to the IC). One of the techniques says not to spy on him. I find this interesting. In the beginning, I did spy, and even though it gave me all of the information I needed, it really made me sick (anxiety-wise). Now, I deliberately avoid the spying (even though the phone bill comes home and he's not here to open it) since I just can't handle it. Everyone thinks I'm stupid not to check it so I'll know once and for all, and it makes me feel like I'm wavering and not strong. It actually made me feel better about it that the 180 list says not to spy on him either.

But then a pager bill comes that is 4 times the regular amount (I had a friend look at the amount since I need to keep my checkbook in sync). So he exceeded text messages by hundreds, yes hundreds. He tells me that he doesn't "talk to" OW anymore, but maybe in his little foggy mind text messaging doesn't count. When this first started, he had almost 300 text messages to her when we were on a 10 day vacation together. He sat in the airport and sent me a short message or two and then kept typing because he was sending them to her too (to me, to her, to me, to her).

So, it's hard...maybe he really is trying now. But any little thing that is suspect (like the dog hair in his car right now) I notice, and then I have zero faith again. She has a big dog, and I noticed the dog hair way back in the beginning. He has a black car and the white hair is a dead giveaway. I drove his car today since I need to pick up relatives, and I just saw the hair. When I mentioned the hair last week, he said he wishes I had said something about it sooner instead of stewing about it since he visited a friend out of town (who I knew) who had a big white dog and the dog was all over him.

I know all of this sounds nitpicky, etc., but the larger point is that signs are still there that he's not honest, but, in reality, many "signs" could be explained away. How do I handle this? Do I just ignore everything? When I see something suspicious (like 2 women throwing themselves at him, which I read in his e-mail when I WAS still snooping), how can I put any kind of effort into any kind of positive communication with him?

I just feel like I'm spinning.

I will say one thing - I felt the best when I was doing a good Plan A. I will do my best to do that again.

Oh, one more thing: she is very wealthy. I will never know it if she flies off to whatever exotic location he happens to be in to visit him for the weekend...

I guess that's more of my paranoia, but that is true. She has the means to do that. By the way, her divorce isn't final yet, and she lives not even a mile away from me!

I would have to agree with Silverpool...act like the perfect wife/confidante, especially if you are doing it by phone; it may seem counterintuitive, but it does work. I know that H is very confused right now, probably because of my PlanA behavior, and it was haaaaard. I would compliment him, let him talk about how tough his day was, let him bring up subjects that are light and interesting and then elaborate, engage him. I would let him be the center of focus. It SUCKED big time, but at least I tried like HECK to bring him around.

Plan A is also about taking care of yourself, which I could have done better at. Get out of the house!! I feel better this time around. Life does get easier, but you have to let time get between you and the destruction that has been caused to see more clearly; during that time keep posting; I'll be here as others will be too. You are never alone here.

I am trying, I really am. The other part of this story that I didn't mention is that I have been sick for the last 3+ years, 21 doctors, and H stayed by my side the whole time. If it wasn't for him, I don't know where I'd be. During that time, he now tells me that his depression was worsening to the point of him having to pull the car over to the side of the road (when he was alone) and just cry. He felt he couldn't burden me with his sadness since I was the one who was sick.

It doesn't make any of this right, but maybe helps explain why I can't just walk away from him (even though he also has been abducted by those MLC aliens!).

P.S. I am much better now but still can't push myself and sometimes traveling can be difficult (not impossible, just a little more planning, coordination, and respect for rest).

Smiling,
Oh, sweetie, I'm not badgering you. I just want for you to start to really turn the focus on yourself. Don't think for one minute that I don't have to focus really hard to do this every day.

I'm certainly not telling you to do something that you are not ready for. There is time to think on it, but read here as much as you can, get the books, start examining your role, yourself, realize that you only control you. Also, there is absolutely no excuse for an affair. No matter how depressed H was, him telling you about his crying and depression is just a way to take the spotlight off of the problem at hand. Depression is no excuse to betray anyone, much less your spouse. I personally feel that telling you this is underhanded (JMHO). Start to look at your needs, try to find ways to put them into place and enforce them. Get down to the work that you have to do and it will help you focus, and find a path. Don't wait to do this, for you will flounder; I know that I did, initially, and it may have hindered recovery.

Hi Temp,

I don't feel badgered at all - I'm appreciative that you're "talking" this through with me. I have all the books, by the way - probably about 20 of them! I have read them over and over and they do help.

I agree there is no excuse for what happened. I guess the point I was trying to make is that my illness was very difficult for him. It still doesn't excuse anything, but I'm just saying that he stuck by me through that, and it was very tough on him. I would have stood by him too, of course, had he been the one who was ill.

I do need to be reminded to keep finding out about my needs - I have always struggled with that. I still am struggling with that. I will keep pushing myself to do that...

Thanks

I'm not the kind of person that would OVERextend myself to just anybody, but I would let those close to me take advantage of me, so, even though I felt that I had needs, I did not express them. When I did, it was always too late, as I had allowed specific behavior to continue without being checked!

Now, my close relationships are all pretty open/honest. I reserve some things for myself to deal with, but I live my life in the open; I ask for what I want and make people aware when they are crossing the line. I'm firm but caring. It's a good place to be.

Start small; if you KNOW something hurts you, try to think of what can be done to avoid it, by you. Not by others. That means boundaries. It's not about other people, it's about what you control, yourself. This is not only good for a M but great in other close, personal relationships.

Hi Temp,

I'm proud of myself. He just called (from Australia) from his friend's international cell phone. He sounded very formal because he was riding in the car with the friend/new boss. He kept saying that I sounded weird and he wanted to make sure I was ok. I told him that I thought he sounded weird. I told him I was fine and kept turning the conversation back to him - is he having fun, is he learning a lot...I thanked him very much for calling me. The whole time, I was really upbeat and friendly. He said he loved me (in a very formal way) and said he has no way of further communication with me (he's in a remote area). I said ok, well thanks for calling. He won't be back for almost 2 weeks, but I didn't ask: when will I hear from you again? I was friendly, happy, somewhat detached, and it is interesting how he picked right up on that. I feel good about myself, and that's the important thing.

Trying to think about it objectively, that must have been a big deal for him to use friend's phone to call me (since the boss/friend is not crazy about me) in front of them. He must have wanted to call.

Of course I'm curious about the "emotional thoughts" he said he was having about us (he wrote that in a recent e-mail) but I fought the instinct to ask about them...he'll tell me if I just pull back, I think.

Am I on the right track? I know I'm on a rollercoaster, that's for sure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, yeah, girl!

Good job! Sounds like you are on track! Wow, now that's Plan A. Don't let your curiosity get the best of you, allow him to elaborate when he is ready. When he does, you'll be ready to answer. Remember, think about your needs here, and start forming boundaries. Answer his needs as best you can, from afar. It may be tough, but you can hang up the phone, and do some deep breathing before moving on to the next thing, right?!

woohoo !!! Well done, exactly right - keep it up, all the money in the world cannot make her a decent wife. She is a wh*** and he and she know it. You keep this up and you will do well.

You have to adapt the 180, I believe you do have to spy, it is necessary for you to know all you can. The 180 is intended to minimise stress and build self esteem, this is why it has some rules that you will not see on MB. I spied for the first three years and I would do it in a heartbeat if I got "that" feeling again. Each time I stopped it was like he got a "get out of jail free" card and became deceptive. His recovery from the fog was a very slow one. It is not really spying to look at what you share. You are married and have not refuted the vows. If you can share your most intimate parts of your body in marriage then why not a piece of paper, or a 'phone? You are his body and he is yours, so whatever his body does is your business. Investigating is stressful, as we already know we could find something horrendous, but we need to know. Looking throgh is stuff now is nothing to me, no stress as I now do not expect to find anything - I am not afraid.

I would not say I loved him, not when he was not my DH, it took a long time. I just said, thank you, when he said it. When he asked I told him I was not rewarding someone who knew my heart and was yet tearing it apart. I said he could tell I loved him from my actions, and when I could tell the same from him and trust him, then I would express that to him verbally.

Linda

Wow...when I hear things like this though, I wonder if I am not being tough enough on him. My IC though, tells me to say I love him too if he says it first. But I agree with you, he does need to keep remembering that he is hurting my heart, very much. Probably one of the reasons I like the 180 approach is the reduction of stress. I know one day I'll look at those bills and do other spying, but right now I'm not ready to. I don't want the stress. I think this is why I have self-doubts - if it were anyone else, I would tell her, of course you have to look, you need to know what you're dealing with!

My biggest challenge is letting some time go by and see how things unfold - as it does, I'm sure I'll become more comfortable and stronger in making decisions that I'm having trouble with now.

OK, I have one more question: for all of our marriage, I have managed our finances, paid all of our bills, etc. When he moved into his apartment, I developed his budget (the counselor wanted him to do it but he couldn't pull himself away from the OW long enough). He had to follow it and he did take care of his own bills and he paid me for his share of our joint bills.

Now that he's on his worldwide journey, he asked me in front of the MC if I would help him with his bills. I told him that I would not pay his bills for him. I really think he was surprised by that answer! Probably because he said he still wants to "work on the marriage", so maybe that means to him that I'm supposed to still help him (in his mind). He said he was hoping I could "watch" the accounts in case he's abroad and can't pay something that needs to be paid. You can pay almost anything on the internet these days...however, many places he's going will not have internet.

Now, we did set up a joint account so that he can put his paychecks in it up there (in his new state) and then I can pull out what $ I need here. However, I think it is wrong for me to get too involved in his bills. He wants to learn to be independent, pay his own bills (and he was proud of himself when he was in the apartment) so if I keep track of everything, he has me to rely on again, right? However, then I think about what you two (Temp & Silverpool) tell me about meeting his needs from afar. If I help him with his accounts by "keeping an eye on them, am I meeting a need of his which would be a good thing (as far as Plan A goes)?

Don't mean to overanalyze - I do think it's important to show that I can meet his needs. I just don't know how far to go with that without becoming a doormat! Thanks.

OK, I have one more question: for all of our marriage, I have managed our finances, paid all of our bills, etc. When he moved into his apartment, I developed his budget (the counselor wanted him to do it but he couldn't pull himself away from the OW long enough). He had to follow it and he did take care of his own bills and he paid me for his share of our joint bills.

Now that he's on his worldwide journey, he asked me in front of the MC if I would help him with his bills. I told him that I would not pay his bills for him. I really think he was surprised by that answer! Probably because he said he still wants to "work on the marriage", so maybe that means to him that I'm supposed to still help him (in his mind). He said he was hoping I could "watch" the accounts in case he's abroad and can't pay something that needs to be paid. You can pay almost anything on the internet these days...however, many places he's going will not have internet.

Now, we did set up a joint account so that he can put his paychecks in it up there (in his new state) and then I can pull out what $ I need here. However, I think it is wrong for me to get too involved in his bills. He wants to learn to be independent, pay his own bills (and he was proud of himself when he was in the apartment) so if I keep track of everything, he has me to rely on again, right? However, then I think about what you two (Temp & Silverpool) tell me about meeting his needs from afar. If I help him with his accounts by "keeping an eye on them, am I meeting a need of his which would be a good thing (as far as Plan A goes)?

Don't mean to overanalyze - I do think it's important to show that I can meet his needs. I just don't know how far to go with that without becoming a doormat! Thanks.

My H said the same thing when he left the first time. He felt the need to be on his own, take care of his own stuff. He never did. He doesn't really now either. I pay all of the household bills, but, now, he gives me child support and household support every two weeks. He does not live in the home, so I pay the bills because I live there. I have separated our car insurance, we never shared bank accounts, so there was no change there. He is on his own insurance, and all of his other bills are set up for automatic deduction. You might suggest that H do the same (set up for auto deduction where he can).

He said that he wants to be responsible for his own things, so allow him to do that. If he does not reside in your home, then all other expenses (credit cards, insurance, apartment rent, etc.) need to be his responsibility. Remember, this is his choice. You're just allowing him to live his choice. Plan A is also about you, looking at yourself; are you an enabler (I know I was for a while there). If his needs are to be taken care of, well, then he needs to make the choice of loving you; he has not made that choice.

OK then, I think I'm in good shape. He pays his own rent, utilities, health insurance, and the auto and car insurance that are still combined autopay he writes me a check for every month. I plan to move those as autopays to his account (even though I'm on the car loan). If that ends up being a problem, I will demand that he get a new car loan in his name only. I look at keeping that loan combined for only a very short time.

He also has a credit card in his name only. That is the one that he wants me to "watch". I don't feel like it...but he is acting offended that I'm not willing to watch it to make sure nothing is late (in case he's in Timbuctu when the bill comes due).

I also pay all of the house bills because I'm in the house alone.

Thanks for the details - I'm pretty much in line w/you. I do agree, I am a BIG enabler, and I was making it easy for him to live his choices. I can't/won't do that anymore.

About his personal credit card, he's a big boy, and can take care of that. I know how much I spend and add to my balance every month, It's not rocket science, he just needs to keep better track of his spending, really a no brainer, and not your job. Let him take care of it. Let him be offended, really.

You're right...

I think by him saying he doesn't want to give up on us and wants to "work on us", thinks we'll still "help" each other.