Just one very odd question.

Is it normal to have feeling of jealousy over not 'making it'? I'm reading a lot these day, on these board, my self help books, websites, and I see, especially here, that people hit the precipuce that I once teetered on, and instead of WH/WW leaving, it finally clicks and they 'choose' to begin the hard work, POJA, RH, etc.

I really do believe that I did all that I could with the power that I possess, but that WH is so far out there that we never connected. I have seen many glimpses of him, especially directly prior to Plan B, but he never chose this path. I guess I feel the power of failure that I have heard many speak of here. It's not that I feel that I failed myself, but that we failed our M, our son.

I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm looking to see if this is a normal stage during Plan B? It feels like part of letting go and release, but it's artfully painful.

Not saying this will be true for you..

But at the beginning of my PLAN B..I thought my marriage was over and so did my H..His last words to me were: "Face it it's over..I don't love you anymore..

In the last month of PLAN B, he moved in with her....

Now we've been happily recovered over 3 years and my H couldn't love me more...

I got the distinct feeling that WH still wants the marriage, but either feels that things have gone too far in the 'worse' direction, or that he must not love me if he wants to be with other women (seems a little 'addicted').

I have faith that he will, oneday, realize how much he really loves me, and how much remorse he really has for not trying, but I fear that it will be too late. I hope not. Hence the green eyed monster. I know that the work of recovery is going to be tough tough tough, but I'm not one to run away from battle. I welcome the work, so that I can reap the rewards. That's what I'm low about, it takes both people involved to face the battle; my beloved is not here for that. I see others working through all of the pain; read their threads and know that it is possible to get started, and, well, I feel happy for them, and realize this may never be my course. Letting go is the hardest part.

Yes, it was helpful to LET MY H GO during PLAN B.

I actually told him that. I set him FREE.

At that time, I had decided that I had done everything that I could personally and possibly do to save the marriage.

I put it ALL IN GOD'S HANDS and I had FAITH that HE would TAKE CARE OF ME. I PRAYED and TRUSTED in HIM.

My Motto was: ACCEPT THE PRESENT BUT MAINTAIN HOPE FOR THE FUTURE.

Silent, my thoughts were not any different than yours. I've been trying to tell you that I thought that my marriage was over... although others HERE have told me that they thought differently about my situation.

My H was not a serial cheater, though. However, he was convinced that he was "IN LOVE" with the FOW and that he was going to start all over with her..that she was his "TRUE LOVE"...YUCK....

YUCK is right! Well, WH is still wayward, not because he has actively been involved with any other women since his affair, but he chose not to change his 'affair' behavior. His singular behavior.

He was 'IN LOVE' (BLECHHHH) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> with OW, and did go through withdrawal while in the home with me, and I plan A'd my butty off. He would respond in kind an then withdraw; this went on for a few months. As soon as I began to feel that we may be able to start true recovery including POJA, RH, etc. he shut down. Mind you, I hadn't even mentioned any of this to him, I think he just noticed me lightening up and beginning to feel more secure; His own red flags went up-- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />do I want this?, do I want her to hope?--NOPE; time to withdraw!!! That was a clear sign of non-commital.

I only hope now to be happy, with whatever that entails, whether it be saving my marriage with a person committed to the fight, or moving on and growing from all of this. I already feel more at peace with myself. It's really a gift right now to feel this way.

Letting go is not easy and takes time, but it has a way of speeding up your self recovery and sending perceived message to the WS that you are moving on. You have in effect completely cut loose the last threads or insecurity and fear. It will make you stronger and a more attractive person to be around.

Letting go is like living your life as if your WH doesn't exist.

I can't remember if it was JL or 2long who said "live...don't just exist". In Plan B you should start to LIVE again.

It is still early for you and will take time.

Silent- Are you ok? You seemed really down in your last few posts. I hope you have had a great weekend with your son.

Good Morning, SL...

LOL...I haven't posted to you before but I wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you and hoping that you had a good weekend...


I really like what you said here. With my own sitch it's the entitlement that gets me...the singular behavior...I think this says so much and I was having trouble in deciding what to call WH at one point.

Thank you for the insight...I hope that you have a great day...

Hey Marflow,

I have been down <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />; I think Plan B is taking it's hold on me and showing me a bit more reality every day. Sometimes it's good to absorb the new information and move on, but sometimes I get bogged down in holding on to today and yesterday. I'm working on that. I've upped my meds a bit to help me through this very dark time. I've never been so low in my life, not even at the death of my mother. It's nuts!!! I spent a lot of time with my son this weekend. I figured I needed to get up and get out.

We went to a local lake/park, and took some great pics (I had to purchase a new digital camera 'cause WH took our old one; NO BIGGIE--it's a good investment). My son played on the ultra cool playground for over an hour. It was really a lovely autumn day, slight breeze, slight chill in the shade. We then sat down and had lunch together. Then we went to a local pumpkin patch to pick up our lovelies for carving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I stayed home from work today; I've got the blues and needed to be alone a bit. I worked very hard in the yard, getting everything weeded and pulled up my calla lily. I've been keeping myself busy, but the thoughts creep in, and take me to a place I should not frequent. I'm okay, but sad. I'm by no means in any danger, so don't you worry. I value my life and the people in it.

I think the crux of everything is that my dreams of old are fading away, and I still long for some of them with my husband. He no longer exists, so I need to let some of those dreams go and make new ones.

Rinder,
I've been keeping up on your sitch. Wow, what a bumpy ride. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I hope that you are able to weather this next step, and I really hope that your husband wakes up, and sees what a fascinating woman he has right in front of him. Lady, you've got guts! I know that you had your mind made up, and I could sense the agony of dealing with your WH, so I do understand choosing to D. The fact that your WH peeked through the fog is a good sign; you can always D but you get one REAL stab at saving your love for each other.

I think my WH is living in a fantasyland of entitlement right now. It's hideous! My WH will remain so until HE sees the truth and decides to come home or he will be labeled my exWH. It was truly more agony to be rejected and ignored and used for 'dates' when he had no one else, than for me to now be in Plan B. I had enough pain. I never really felt that he gave me anything, so it was time to take care of myself and my son. We'll see what Plan B brings in the long run.

Thanks for checking in...

i'm glad you spent fun time with your son.

I know want you mean about the blues I battled them all weekend.

Hold on to the good days and refocus when you are having a bad day. Your little one is a great place to focus he needs you no matter where his Dads head may be.

I'm here if you need to talk. Popping in and out but here.

Thank you so MUCH! It means alot to hear that...

I'm also glad to know I'm not the only one dealing with entitlement issues...that's the one thing I can't understand...how did they get to the point where they feel so entitled to do whatever they want regardless of who they are hurting...

I think the only thing I feel entitled/deserve is to be treated better than I have been and it doesn't have to be by WH for that matter...my kids for that matter also...

Well, enough about them...what about you? What have you been doing for self? You know once the little one's asleep?

hot bubble bath...stayed in your PJs all day...something you haven't done in awhile...???


Just a thought...when I do this to myself...I actually tell myself to "STOP" and if I don't I keep repeating it until I do...no sense in punishing myself...I do that enough...LMAO

You're going great...keep your chin up...hold tight to those great days like MF said...I hope you know how fabulous YOU are! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The only failure is not trying. You have tried and going into plan b does not make you a failure. Plan b either way will make you a success.

I was in and out last week because I was traveling so I am glad you sitch got some attention. Thanks for the post on mine as well.

Any way as you know I spoke to my mom this morning to get my ducks in a row.

She has been my rock. Anyway she divorced my dad and said it took her 2 years from the time she realized she wanted out until she got out. Her POV was that she tried everything she could for as long as she could and my father would not come around. At that point even though she regretted that it came to this she never regretted the decesion.

Her POV is that if there is a glimmer of hope that things will get better you keep trying. If you do that and it doesn't work then you are not a failure.

There is only so much one person can do. There is only so much hurt a heart can take. When you and your heart can't take it anymore then you need to do what is right for yourself.

There are success stories here but that is because the FWS takes ownership. They stop the A behavior and they work hard to save the M. I haven't read many success stories where the FWS continues on down a road of distruction only to leave a path of roses in their wake.

If the FWS is unrepentant and unremorseful and is unwilling to change what choice does a BS have.

To me it is baffling because the A proves their were problems and yet they don't want to own their part.

Anyway you are not a failure. You do need to protect yourself and the love you have.

Rinder,

I'm always up for a good story line, and yours has me hooked. I've seen you go through so much this year, and I only hope that you find your way. You seem to have let go a bit and are letting go of the reigns for a while. Good for you! You give me hope daily; even when you are down, you're looking up!

Frog,

You are one lucky SOB to have your mother as your rock. I miss that now more than ever. Yes, baffling is one word I have come to truly understand. Prior to Plan B, I told my WH that I believed he 'bent' his morals or ethical codes to match his behavior, and that I didn't know him anymore. I said many things that I don't really regret. I told him that I was disappointed that he never really came back, that he never really tried, and that he will have to live with that for the rest of his life. He gave up his family without even a whimper. I don't know this man anymore. That, to me, is the most damaging thing; we were not worth the try. Why have I become the enemy? How did I betray YOU? He is too painful for me and toxic for me anymore. I'm feeling pretty low right now, and boy, I tell you what, having my mom right now would be the greatest gift. You're truly blessed to still have that force in your daily life, and not just in your dreams.

My mother divorced my father when I was quite young (maybe 2 or 3). He was an abusive alcoholic and chose never to contact his children. It's been an interesting life. I don't know where this fight in me came from, maybe integrity, maybe an inner light; I don't know, but I always felt that marriage was for 'worse' too, and knew it would come, as I'd witnessed it enough in my short life, so I was more than willing to deal with things. I've come to the end of the tether of that rope. I hold on to what I perceive as the love I have remaining; I don't really know if it's real anymore, and it may disappear soon, and I'm okay with that, it's the erasing of so many good memories that is hard to bear.

Oh, yeah, and dealing with those pesky new women that will come into my WH's life eventually. You know, the ones that will want to be my son's STEPMOM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Estrangement, it's the gift that keeps on giving <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Oh, YOU inspire me! YOU are so awesome!
I was actually shocked my you saying this...LMAO...I guess I need to work on self more...LOL...I guess in my mind, I didn't think I could affect people like that...LMAO

Please excuse the rambling of a MAD woman...just joking...you know us [censored] @sses are a little strange...LMAO

OT- How are your terriers? WH said that we could get a dog...the kids and I have been wanting one for a long time...so I'm trying to gather info and I see alot of terriers out there...I don't want a dog that barks at everything under the sun...I know that yorkies are good for that...we were actually kind of thinking about getting a pug...

LOL...I told WH the first thing I was going to do when I got a D was get a dog...of course, this was after he had agreed to F and I getting one...

I love my terrier, but she's a mix (rat terrier and jack russell), so her termperment is a little less spastic. If you don't like yippy dogs, a yorkie is definitely NOT the right one. If you want a reeeeeally small dog, then maybe a chihuahua or papillon. Italian Greyhounds are lovely. A good family dog, that is considered medium sized is a boxer. I'm not much of a fan of the long-haired dogs like golden retriever or labs. Labarador's are a bit spastic, and hard to handle at first, bumbly, they train well, though, as long as you are on it; however, they can get quite large.

Just read up on the internet. I think there are websites that help people enter criteria to help narrow down what type of dog is good for their environment and wants. I have a greyhound who sleeps most of the time, but does need a good run everyday, he's dang fast--SWOOSH! But he only requires about 5 minutes of all out running in my backyard. The winter is tough for him, so I'm thinking of treadmill training him.

I read the Dog Whisperer's Book (Cesar Milan?). I have been walking my dogs more regularly, and they seem to be calming down a bit and listening better. All dogs require a great deal of patience and time. I've found that they have helped me in my darkest times, but sometimes I don't want to deal with them either. Mostly, I feel respected and loved by them.

My advice, take your time, do the research, and have fun. It's really an adventure!

Thanks...so MUCH...I thought about going check out the pound...

I've had doberman's (9 litters of 9), two rottweiler, several miniture schnaxayers (sp)...

I think the main thing is it has to be small, to stay inside...our fence isn't completely closed in and we live by a main hwy.

So, thank you for your insight...I appreciate it!

Yes I am. You see my mom is a very moral person. She does not like to pass judgement on others. So when I speak she listens. Never a bad word about the FWW. Never once has she suggested I D my FWW. All she keeps saying is you will know when it is over. You will know 100% sure for a long time. Not a day or a week sometimes those feelings are just in the heat of the moment. Wait for the heat of the moment to subside and see. If you are 99% sure then that is not enough.


Same here. You know my FWW continues to say she has been over the A a million times. Now mind you even the MC says she really needs to consider doing it again. Why because a million times now she has lied. To me this statmemt baffles me because I don't understand her logic. I mean is she ok with the fact that she has never been honest? Is it ok that each time we went over it more lies were exposed? To me when I think about it she keeps bending her morals.

Now there is a thread by Waltw and he had a good POV on the memories thing. It went something like this.

As a kid he did things and they were good memories and he still has them but he can never go back and relive them. With his WW he had great memories and he doesn't want to erase them but he can never relive them. He needs to continue to create good memories every day and at this point his WW is not willing to do that with him. Just like he can't live in the past about his childhood he can't live in the past in his M. When it was good it was good but at this point it no longer is.

You know today if I walked out the door I would have regrets but I would not regret my decesion.

Every person deserves to have their EN's met if they are willing to meeet their partners.

What I have seen in so many FWS or WS is that they believe their EN's should be met even if they don't meet the partners.

That's how my FWW is she thinks I should try harder even though she really has put much effort into not meeting my Needs. So I am still not really talking to her because why talk to someone that doesn't have my best interest and my feelings best interest in mind?

She said the other day I was her best friend and followed that with she hates me. Until I can figure out the truth in her contradictions I will no longer move forward.

I wish I would have done this three years ago. She keeps calling and trying to go back to where she is comfortable with no regard to the fact I feel like crawling out of my skin because she has not created a safe comfortable environment for our M to thrive.

Sounds like your H doesn't seem to want to create that environment for you so you are not a failure. You are just a person that is being successful at creating a safe environment for yourself. The more you love yourself the easier it is to love others. Hard to love yourself when you have to bend in order to accomodate him.

BTW I used your quote on Judgement with the MC. He nodded his head. I think that is what stimulated the point with my FWW about continuing to make bad decesions. LOL. Thanks for that it really has made me think.

I really liked that quote when I found it; it has helped me to realize that my bad judgment has taught how NOT to do things. I learn from my mistakes, and that is what it's all about to me. Some people, and I know many, need to quite literally have something stripped from them (their pride, their dignity, their self-worth) in order to learn and create a place of better judgment. They meet your definition of insanity to a tee. They create the same problems with the same type of people until their lives are in utter shambles. I'm not usually one to reach 'shambles' but I would say this is my lowest field of judgement. I think I'm doing okay. I've learned how to know what boundaries are and how to enforce them. I never had that before. I always felt like I had to be the one to change, now I know it really goes both ways.

In my heart, I want something from WH, but in my mind I know that he will not give it, not CAN NOT , WILL NOT. He chooses to make the choice of infidelity, of dishonesty and of non-forgiveness. I choose to forgive as best I can with what has been opened for me, which is not much. I now have to forgive myself, and that is much harder. I realize that I'm not a failure, but I do feel like WE failed our son. You have done all that you can, given as much as one can give without reciprocation, as hate will develop from that. My suggestion is to be still for a little bit, do something for yourself, something you enjoy, whatever that may be. Let the R go for a little while. Be soft, be maleable, live a bit.

It's a bad emotional place that you are right now (or lack there of). I understand how crazy this personality can make you. This day I'm this and the next day I'm not; well, which is it! You have stayed through a tremendous amount of pain, and have given your W a chance of a lifetime. You may move on without regret, but she will not. I see where you are headed, and it's a [email]d@mned[/email] shame that she can't. What a waste of a great opportunity! Hang in there for as long as you have a doubt. Your mom gave you some good advice; she is leading with EXPERIENCE

Change we to HE. I have wondered to myself what impact this is going to have on my Son's. YS was to young to know what was going on but OS knew something was up.

As men we learn from our fathers sometimes emulating them because they are our idols. I learned from my father what not to do. He was an alchoholic, adulterer that sometimes hit my mom. I guess I married my dad. LOL.

I was able to look and have my own moral compass I did not want to emulate my dad. But when boys see their fathers doing these things they think it is normal behavior. So he is failing them by setting this type of example. You on the other hand are showing them that it is not acceptable.

I feel the same with my FWW she can give it but she choses not to. What is sad is in my FWW's life I am the only one that hasn't abandoned her. I have stood next to her or even lifted her up when she needed it.

I am not going to be filled with regret in my life any longer. I am laying it on the table for her. If she choses to stay in a fictional fairy tale past fine. We can't change the past we can only learn from it. It is dangerous to learn from a fairy tale, fictional past.

I like you am hurt mostly for the kids. I did not have children with her to be two single parents or having extended families.

I look at my son's every night and wonder how many more nights I will see them every night. I left town last week and my YS was in tears when he woke up. He called me while I was on the way to the airport crying. My OS did the same. I can't imagine waking up in a home without them.

But I won't consider myself a failure if it happens. I did not fail my children if I get a D. I might fail them if I stay married and they think this is what love is supposed to look like.

My judgement has been skewed. I keep making the same bad mistake. I am done with that.

I am no longer afraid to move forward with or without her. I have not felt like I needed her I felt like I wanted her. Now I don't know if I want her.

I think you have come to the same conclusion. I admire you for your strength at this difficult time. I don't know about you but my head is getting clearer and clearer.

It needs to be good most of the time and great some of the time and bad a little bit of the time to make it worth while. Any other variation certainly doesn't make sense.

It really hasn't been that long since I've gone dark. There has only been one exchange of information (through my intermediary) regarding Holiday schedules for the next year. I requested that WH change his mailing address and requested an update on movement on our LSA. WH said that he would go to the post office when he could and that he saw his lawyer, drafted proposed changes to LSA and was sending them to my lawyer.

I'm really all wrenched up inside. It's been a long time since I had to heal from a broken heart, and that wasn't nearly as difficult. I find that I'm dwelling on WH. I'm finding it difficult to deem him 'nonexistent' so that I can focus ENTIRELY on myself. I often feel like crying. I'm so very tired of going through all of this pain. I've decided, in my mind, to let him go, but my heart is holding on. I'm working on seeing his actions as being about him, that they don't have to do with whether he loves me or not. His life seems to be a selfish endeavor right now, as it seems to have been for the last year+, so I'm working on acceptance that all of this has not much to do with me. Even as I type this I feel one of the veils that covers me falling away. Everyday I feel like I take a step forward, and have to fight to hold that ground.

This is tough! I guess that's what I'm saying. WH is abiding by Plan B to a tee, so I can't imagine anything changing between us. I feel hope for our M slipping away. Maybe that's a good thing. I now only strive to feel better and to take care of myself and my family. My world feels very small right now. I think that I held onto hope for so long this last year, that I let that take over. I'm trying to keep my chin up. I feel like an idiot for allowing myself to be party to his behavior, his choices. I KNOW that I will be okay, I'm just waiting for the light to go on in my head. I know time will take over, and I will heal, but time, takes time.