(((((((((SL))))))))))

Oh,Sweetie! I hear how much pain that you are in...you're right that you HAVE NOT been in Plan B very long...time...one day AT A TIME...

I KNOW how hard that is...how hard it is to focus only on the day...when I started feeling bad or thinking about the future...which I see you doing...I would focus on what I was doing at that exact moment...

Said to myself...Okay, I'm working on these papers...I would find that when people would talk to me...I wasn't listening, I would be thinking something else , and would have to redirect my attention...

It's not an easy task to keep present but what's the payoff? ...Looking into the future...only God knows what's going to happen...

For a little while I would tell myself...wait 15 minutes and a miracle will happen...someone I think is wise told me that...and they were right...kinda like the weather here...LOL


Did you honestly KNWO that you had a choice at the time? The reason why I ask is because I didn't...I didn't even know that was an option...I just accepted what I thought was...until I started learning that "I" did have options...

We deal the best way we can with what we have...Would you consider that you have better tools now than you did?


I KNOW you KNOW this...but do YOU believe this?

Look to the positive...look at my sitch...D-day 4/23 and here I am just now getting MY act together...6 months...try not to be SO hard on myself...YOU ARE DOING GREAT! YOU ARE!

Believe in yourself...you have done a so much...progress is slow...healing...LOL...I think is even slower, LOL...but YOU'RE doing IT!

KEEP THAT CHIN UP!

one more thing......I just wrote something in my thread about this...it may help...may not...LOL

Thanks Rin,

Very good points! I don't need to look into the future. I'm working to break that habit; it really serves no purpose right now, nor did it ever really.

Wait 15 minutes...yes, I felt that today. I went to lunch with some girlfriends, and they talked about work, and then we sat down to lunch in our company lunchroom, and everybody showed up and took my mind out of the place it was with laughter and fun. It was good; I allowed it to come in and i feel a bit better.

I say that I KNOW I will be okay because I have been down before and have come through the other side wiser. I do believe it to be true, but i also know that time is what it takes. Separation from the anxiety of the moment. I'm going to get there, it's just those moments that I sometimes allow to take over half of a day. You're right--wait 15 minutes...

I have been keeping up with you and see how you are progressing. I'm sure that you have your moments of blurriness, too. You are able to refocus to a much more appropriate frame of mind, and that is what I am working toward right now.

Thank you for helping me focus; questioning my post, it has helped me 'refocus'.

Your very welcome...I'm glad that I could help...


I have and I'm sure that they will come again in the future...I may need you to refocus me down the line...on the days that I'm feeling good, I try to help...primarily b/c I am so grateful to those who have supported me...

Oh, I saw the cutiest little terrier at the pound yesterday...I got an application and haven't have time to fill it out yet...I would like more information on him but they just got him in...it'll come... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was very happy to read your post...it's the little things that make everything flow together... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You sound great...so level-headed...it's when my emotions get out of hand that I get weak in the knees...LOL

((((((Silent)))))) BIG HUG

I've been really busy with work so I have not been posting.

When I came on and seen how down you are I had to post something. I know what your going thru I'm doing it to.

You have been on my mind and in my prayers, I've been down for the last couple of days maybe its something in the air.

Just remember your not alone.

Thanks for checking in on me Marlow and Rinder, I really appreciate the concern.

I'm buckin up now, and have reevaluated why I've been feeling the way I have. I've been thinking of my WH as if he were my Husband. He is NOT!! He is someone that I don't want to have in my life. It would be like sleeping with the enemy, so to speak. I realized this yesterday, and have been running with it since.

When I begin to feel saddened by everything happening, I remember that I don't care for this persona, but I love my H; they're not one and the same anymore. I realize that things that occur don't hurt as much when you relate to the person doing them as they are, not as you imagine them. If I deal with WH as someone who doesn't care for me, then it's easier, no as much emotion involved. It's when I allow the thought that someone I trust and love is doing this to me, that I become depressed. It is still tough, but not as emotionally charged. My DS has been more open about talking about how he likes to spend time with daddy at 'his house' (he lives with his best friend and BF girlfriend). DS is also starting to talk about mommy and daddy not living together anymore, so it's really beginning to sink in with him, too.

I wouldn't say I'm dancing on clouds, but I've got my two feet firmly planted on the ground right now, and I feel more stable. Carving pumpkins tonight with DS and BF! Time is on my side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Silent,

Yes love can make you feel like you are walking on clouds. Other times it can make you feel like you have been dragged through broken glass then across some salt.

The differentiation between the person you fell in love with and the person that exists today is tough when you love them.

Sometimes I really hate love. LOL. Your head sees and knows what is right but your heart wants to get in the way of that.

The more time you have away the more your head will take over. I look at my past and think when is the last time I really saw the person I fell in love with. The persona that you speak of is not the man you fell in love with.

Falling out of love is harder. It sure takes a lot to fall out of it. The pain and the good memories seem to overwhelm. They have helped me make many a bad decesion because I love.

My FWW told me she couldn't stand me. I hung up. She asked why. I said. I was hurt that you would say that. She asked me if I felt the same way. I said no I love you. Wow was that a stupid thing to say. No because I love her just not the person she has become. I am finally starting to realize I can't love her if I don't love the person she has become.

I love what we once had. I love the past her. The present her not so much.

I want to say you are doing great. You are a rock and maybe he will see what he is missing now that he is not around.

Thanks Frog,

This is whacko, but that's basically what I just said on your thread



That's for [email]d@mned[/email] sure! I do miss him, but I can't hold on to what is a memory and not really here now; may never show up again. The quote you made above, the true meaning of that, finally hit me yesterday, and it lifted a bit of my sorrow. I had to question, " who am I waiting for?" The one I love will come back if he loves me; the one that is gone can stay away. I'm not waiting anymore; I've got my eyes opened, but I'm not waiting.

Silent,

My eyes are open now too. People change that is what happens with time and experiance.

It seems as though some change and think that change is good. Heck that's what we are always told.

But change that is for the worse is not good. If a person cannot or will not see that the changes that they made are for the worse and they are content then what can you do.

I can honestly say the person that my FWW has changed it to is not for the better. What I have asked myself today is this. "If I just met her today and she was this person would I marry her." The answer is no. I would not marry someone like this. After the A I felt as though our old M was dead. I wanted it to rise from the ashes like a Phoenix. A awesome powerful, beautiful force. Instead I see the ashes are all that are left.

My FWW changed it to a person I don't want and she refuses to change into a person I do. I can't control her but if she can't see that I can't make her see it.

So if you can't have the Phoenix then what do you get. Ashes. I don't want them and it doesn't look like you do either.

Doesn't make us failures. I have been true to myself. I have been true to this M. I have succeed for this long because I loved her. She chose to fail me, this M, our children and most importantly herself.

Right On! That is exactly what I think when I do think about WH. Would I want to be involved with someone who really only cares about his wants and needs? NOPE.

It's funny, I don't think I need MORE now, I need what I've always needed, but never really realized I was missing until after our son was born, and certainly after the A.

I feel like I am the phoenix rising from the ashes. I certainly got burned! I'm learning and 'rising' above all of this. This Plan B that I'm in, well, it's beginning to work FOR me. I will be much stronger after this.

I have worked hard and been true to my H and tried to build a better, stronger, relationship. It was a great dream. When i think about how much better we could be, if only we tried, WOW! I know that it could be wonderful. I also know that, with time and healing, I may find the right person, in the right place, who will build that kind of relationship with me because that is what they want, no forcing it. Meh, I'm not really thinking about any relationship besides the one with myself right now (oh, make that two, the one with my son, too).

Hi, SL!I was just checking in but it looks like my wonderful friend Frog's got everything covered...LOL

I just wanted to wish you a great day! Take care!

Silent,

I think M's should also be subject to the Lemon Law. LOL.

I could not today imagine marrying this person today. Just one discussion with her and I would be done. LOL.

I think you are right it is what you always have needed and one day you wake up and decide I want it. I deserve it. I should have it. Then you look at your S and tell them and then they don't respond.

They have an A and point to the BS. Then you buy into it that you had just as much a part in the deterioration of the M as the FWS and want to change. Then they don't.

They fight to get the damaged BS back. The one that put up with that crud. The one that wasn't good enough to stay faithful too.

Boy.

You inspire me. When I saw you went into plan B it made me rethink this whole thing.

Thank YOU.

So, I've had plenty of time to think lately, about my life and my marriage. I see things much more clearly now. I did a lot of bending in order for H to be contented and happy. Many of the places we went were suggestions of his. There were many times that we went to places only he really wanted to go; obviously POJA and O&H were not our strong suits. He would buy things without really discussing it (expensive things), and make plans without really telling me. He would stay up late when we had get togethers, so that I always ended up getting up with DS. Many other things too numerous to expand on right now. I don't know if WH ever really considered me when doing anything. I, also, didn't really express any problem with this behavior, which helped to perpetuate it.

I didn't do a very good job of voicing when I wasn't really into going to the next car show or motor event, or wanting to be the one to sleep in after a party. I don't want to live this way anymore.

Well, this leads me to now, today. I wonder if now is the time to give up hoping that H will come back to his family? I want to hope, but am afraid of it at the same time. My DS has been expressing how he wants daddy to live with us (he's 4yo), he wants daddy to go places with us. I have told him that I feel the same, but he needs to voice these things to his daddy in order to discuss it with him. I'm sad for DS, as well as myself. I must say that I have felt better these last few days (maybe the up in meds is helping, too). I'm also worried that WH's selfish behavior is something I won't have much of a tolerance for anymore.

At the same time that I'm thinking these things about M, I don't really believe that WH will ever come home. I feel absolutely no connection with him right now, except for longing for my 'H' to come back to me. That's not really a connection based in reality. It's very hard to express the things that I feel inside in words.

Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Silent:

I was opening up old wounds and pouring out my heart on another thread regarding my feelings about my H's A. I was getting the impression that some folks thought my feelings and thoughts were abnormal. However, just this morning when driving in , I decided that is just NOT SO. I recalled Steve H. telling me how DEVASTING DISCOVERY of an A is. When I told him how I was feeling, he told me that my FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS were NORMAL because DISCOVERING INFIDELITY is a MAJOR LIFE TRAUMA. He stated that it is WORSE than INCEST... It really helped me to learn that because I was FEELING CRAZY.

That being said, Silent..I recall using RATIONALIZATION as one of my means of COPING. I would tell myself stuff like... I didn't love my H anyways and he never loved me and our marriage was AWFUL from the beginning, etc. It's much like the REWRITING of HISTORY that the WS does. I can't say FOR SURE that's what you are doing. However, I think that you should consider this. All marriages have their faults. Certainly your marriage was in trouble, contributing to the A.

However, keep in mind, that you loved each other enough TO GET MARRIED and to have your beautiful son... so you were in LOVE with each other. According to Steve, if you LOVED each other THEN, you can LOVE EACH OTHER AGAIN.

I understand that it can be hurtful to now to remember the GOOD PARTS about your H and YOUR MARRIAGE but also CONSIDER THOSE FACTORS in this EQUATION.

IMO, it is worth it to FIGHT the DESTRUCTION of your FAMILY.( See our ART OF WAR thread). Your son does need his Dad. You do need your H...not your WH...

ALthough it is essential to ACCEPT THE CURRENT REALITY, NEVER GIVE UP YOUR HOPE FOR THE FUTURE!!!

Thank you Mimi,
I always like to hear you speak in such a triumphant way, knowing that you, too, have journeyed this dark road.

I guess I don't feel like I'm doing much of anything about my M right now. I'm taking care of the home and my DS, dogs, and MYSELF. I'm enjoying the autumn weather, getting outside, cleaning house, cleaning the yard; put up Halloween decorations. I'm going to a friends party this Saturday; I'm looking forward to that.

I have my faults, BELIEVE ME; I don't believe in perfection in human nature. I believe in acceptance; which is what I thought I was doing in my M prior to the A; accepting H for who he is, not what I have fabricated him to be. I am also thinking about the good times, and I can see that looking back, in the frame of mind that I have right now, may not be the most healthy activity.

I do need my husband, definitely not WH. I want it/him (M) very much. I do feel quite devastated from the A, and also the year that followed. I don't know this man, who would leave, not protect me from this all consuming horror. My time in Plan B has not been that long, and I do hope for a better sense of peace as time goes on.

I was simply trying to say that you are probably doing the NORMAL HUMAN thing of trying to MAKE SENSE of a HORRIBLE TRAGEDY...


((((SILENT))))

Silent,

I think the problem with A's is that they expose a lot about the M before the actual event.

To be honest I thought I had a good normal M. Now looking back on it I see exactly what you saw. The only part for my story is when we didn't do what she wanted or if she didn't get to get what she wanted things were bad for me. If as a family we decided to go to xyz and she wanted to go to abc it was a horrilbe day. She would find the most minor detail to pick apart to prove her idea was better. I realized letting her have her way was just a better idea for everyone. If she was happy then that was all that mattered.

The A opened my eyes to that. I mean part of the drill is figuring what opened your M to an A in the first place. To stop doing the things that caused it, on both sides.

You feelings are normal. It is a shame to have such a traumantic experiance bring to light you weren't really being treated fairly. Bring that to the FWS attention and my FWW's response was "so it is all my fault". No but if you had an A because of your reasons don't you think it might be a good idea to listen to what I am telling you about my EN's so if I am ever in a position to have an A I can't justify it? You are giving me more reasons then you had doesn't that scare you in the least bit?

It is a moral choice to have an A but usually people have reasons to have them? When do you want to stop giving me reasons?

Wanting the FWS to prove to you that they adore you and would do anything to save the M is normal. Within reason of course.

My FWW refuses to see that. I don't need or want that anymore. The MC says she needs to stop acting like a child and yet she does. He even told her that it is pretty apparent that when I ask her to do something she doesn't want daddy telling her what to do. Even if what he is asking for is what is best for him and does no harm to you. Imagine that. It is good for me and doesn't harm her and she still refuses. She also refuses to see she refuses. LOL.

So if your H refuses to do what is good for you and it doesn't harm him what is there to hold onto? When people realize that giving something to someone that does them good should make themselves feel better means they are considerate.

Whens someone does something that is very hard for them to do then it shows they really care about that person.

There are so many times I can personally look at things I have done for my FWW that I really didn't want to do or care to do but because I loved her I did them. Regretting that because you don't get the same in return is what hurts the most.

Mimi,

Thank you for helping me to ferret out the reality here. There really is no way of knowing what is happening or did happen with WH to precipitate this situation; I don't know if he is willing to look at himself right now, or maybe ever, to work through his pain.




There is no real way to make sense of this, only ways to rebuild.


Frog,
I think my Plan B was done at the right time. I do think back to how life was and I do reason that I gave WH a lot of room to breathe. I did let him do, pretty much, as he pleased. Where I was uneducated was asking for what I wanted and having real boundaries in play. Actually, it wasn't until after we had our son that he seemed to become more intent on living life as if nothing had changed (THE CHALLENGE). WH did not want to grow, or grow up. I felt like I had asked too much. Now, I know that this is not true. I asked nothing but to be a family and to grow and learn and enjoy each other during this new phase.

I became angry because WH did not give me as much help as I 'expected'. I fed into the behavior by doing most everything around the house and with/for DS, allowing resentment to grow. Once the P/A behavior was in full swing, I was forced into non-subtle requests (verbal mostly) of him. He would say he would do them, and then let the task time window come and go (usually 24 hours). It began to become clear to me that rebellion was the name of the game. I'm not saying this (P/A behavior) ended our current relationship, as we haven't really tried (no MC, no talking, no POJA, no O&H, no commitment to recovery). I'm saying that I am able to stop blaming myself for WH's behavior and that it will be something to discuss if we ever attempt recovery. Like many here have said, he needs someone to behave that way with, and I was part of that. I always thought that his happiness was my job. Now I realize that OUR happiness is OUR job. I need to be happy, he needs to be happy, we then come together and help foster this happiness by giving.

I'm not one to ask anyone to do anything that I wouldn't roll my sleeves up and try myself, so I always imagined recovery as us both, individually rolling those sleeves up, taking what is ours, learning and moving forward, no matter how hard those days may be. I have even told him that this is not about chastising him or beating him up. I truly want a better, loving relationship that we both thrive under. I don't think it gets much more simple. It's when the whole, 'I want to explore other women' thing rears it's head that i say 'NO MORE'. I won't be in the middle of that, or part of that triangle. I'm out of that, and I feel healthier for it.

I don't know if we'll make it, but looking back at the H that I loved so much, still love today, I hope for it. The WH is someone that I don't want. I'm not saying that his P/A behavior will ever go away, but my hope would be that it would diminish with time, after much work. There's really no way of knowing without trying. You have tried and have hit a wall. That's okay, and you can look back and know that you really have exhausted many efforts for change. You have reached the end of your journey along this current line. It sounds like you really feel the end nearing, and that means that you really have done everything you could, and now you are ready to move forward.

Silent,

The only answer is this. If he comes back and changes, truly changes will you have it in your heart to someday move forward?

IF the answer is yes then you might want to keep trying. IF the answer is no that there is to much damage done then you have the right to say NO MORE.

If you will not protect my heart I have to do it myself.

He has to make a choice. A choice that every moral human being would say is correct. The rules of the universe apply to everyone. IF you jump off a building you will fall to earth. If you are having an A it is not good for your M.

So there you are. If he thinks he can jump off a building and not fall then let him jump.

The fact of the matter is you don't deserve to be the BS any longer.

I did grow tired of feeling victimized (or like a victim). That was self-induced blah. I want to feel good, and I want to live a good life with my son.

By moving into plan B, I have told myself that this dynamic is not longer acceptable to me or my son. If WH decides that he wants to be married, that's a start. Now, what many in my life have said to me is this, and it's the real kicker, I may have moved on by that time.




My answer is that I will cross that bridge when I see that it is steady and has been reinforced. There has to be some noticeable difference/change to proceed. I'm not saying that I won't try, but I won't begin the work without a willing PARTNER. I don't want to fall through the cracks again. I matter too much to many more people than just my WH.

SL- I'm really excited to hear some of the things that you've sadid because just like you I let things slide and let me DH treat me anyway he wanted.

Well, true be told I would stand up for myself and then back down...all my part...no boundaries...

Like you...I'm not willing to be treated like that anymore...I have feeling and I'm the second person in this M...you want to buy something expensive talk to ME...don't give me that attitude like it's my bonus...Oh, the things I use to hear...

I'm sure you can relate from what I read from your earlier posts...

Well, I was just popping in...I'm working on a massive mail out and have tons more to do. Take care and keep your head up...you're not alone...none of us are!