I come here to vent, get advice, mourn, laugh, etc and so on. What I really love? Someone is listening. People are hearing me. I truly do not feel alone. Thank you all for the efforts you take to help the people on these boards and relay your stories on a daily basis. I am honored to be a part of your day.

Then there is your answer. You are not inflexible. LOL. You are willing to move forward with someone that is willing to move forward with you. Sounds reasonable to me.

Why drag someone along. Heck I am moving forward wanna hop on my back and take a ride. Nope.

We are listnening and guess what you can't interupt because I am typing. LOL.

His choice so far is not to do the work necessary.

Silent:

I am very interested in how you addressed your situation with your 4 year old. My son just turned 5 and I really have no clue how to explain to him that mommy and daddy are splitting up.

Hello Hiker,

Well, let's see, lately my son has been saying things like, "I want daddy to live here, with us". He says,"I don't like going to daddy's house" and then he'll seem conflicted and say that he does. He will say he wants daddy to do this and that with us.

Now, my responses vary, but generally, especially in his request for daddy to 'live here', I tell my son that I want daddy to live here, also. I also tell DS that both mommy and daddy love him very much; I have told my son that he can tell me anything he needs or wants to, that I will listen. I have also told him to speak to his father about the things that we discuss, so that WH can better explain his reasoning, and I'm not putting words into his mouth.

I can't remember your sitch right off the top of my head, but are you and WW separated right now/ Plan B? I thought I remembered talking to you about Plan B?

I would say that you really just stick to answering any questions that he has, remind him of how much you BOTH love him, hold him, and tell him that he can talk to you about anything. Soothe him as best you can. If he asks questions that you don't have the answers to right away or can only be answered, truly, by his mother, than be sure to tell him that he can talk to both of you freely. I've done some reading about kids and separation, and follow some of that advice.

My son is pretty 'matter of fact' about his questions, no real huge amounts of sorrow, but I hear the disappointment in him, and notice that he has mood swings after spending time with daddy away from his home. Just reassuring him that he is loved and that you are listening helps. Enlighten as much as is safe for his new mind; don't cloud it with emotion involving your relationship with his mother.

I guess most of this goes without saying, I have no magic words, and the questions come up over and over again, so I just keep answering and reassuring, and reading to learn as much as I can. Hopefully, WH has been open to discuss these things with DS; I'm unsure, as WH and I do not speak, and DS doesn't relay his conversations with his dad so well.

I found this website on Google, and it does a good job of breaking down how to talk to kids of different age groups. I would start there. I haven't gotten to the point that I am saying the word 'divorce' as of yet, but I have answered questions about separation.


http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/hesguide/humanrel/gh6600.htm

Here's a couple of links that talk about children and divorce.


This is the search results.

Kidshealth.org

Heres another from a divorce page...a lot of info on this sight about divorce.
Divorceinfo.com

Hope these help.

JS

Silent & JS:

Thanks so much for the info. This is the issue that troubles me most -- reducing the impact of all this on my son.

I wholly understand. As a child of a broken family, I fear that my son will believe that HE is to blame in some way for this. I think as long as he's talking, I'll be able to reassure him that this is not true.

I am doing everything to make his home life status quo, same bed time, same bath time, brush those teeth, breakfast, lunch, dinner, all the same. I don't let him get away with acting out (as he has had many problems over the last year with anger--hitting, talking back, disrepectfulness in general). He's pretty much back to his old self, now though. He's a great kid, he's bouncy, and fun, loving, and emotive.

'Reducing' the impact is all that you can do; this will affect him, but you can find ways to keep the rest of his life stable.

Reducing the impact is important but what needs to be realized is what is the impact of what is going on now.

IMVHO it is better for a son to be away from a father that is setting such a negative example.

It is also important that the home be stable and loving. If two parents are fighting or the atmosphere is hostile that is not good either.

Sometimes being away from that is a great relief for a child. I know personally when my parents got a D it was great for us. We were all hoping for it to happen. No more screaming matches until 1am etc.

As a matter of fact the negative energy my parents had toward each other was then channeled into postivie energy towards the kids.

So D sucks on kids no doubt about that. Especially at that age. But in some cases it is better then staying in a warzone or in a sitch with negative examples.

My mom made sure to reinforce on a very regular basis that us kids had nothing to do with it. They loved each other but being together was not good for either of them. As we got older she told us in some cases they tried harder to stay together for us but in the end it didn't work. Us kids gave them the reason to try as hard as they could but in the end it was not good for them.

I am glad that he is back to his old self.

Frog,

There was a palpable tension in the home, and DS was definitely manifesting signs of anger in regards to the change that he felt, not to mention the initial separation last year, then WH coming home, tension, then WH leaving again. That little boy was also very confused.

Since WH moved out in July, DS has had a very firm schedule with his dad, and homelife has become more relaxed. I'm not bunged up all of the time, and am able to better focus on real things. It's been good for the both of us.

I agree that an embattled household is not the right place for a child, and I am glad that I am able to make decisions to help make his home a safe haven. He always seems so happy to come home after his time with him daddy. DS's attitude has shifted back to one that is more positive, and that is all I can ask for, a happy, healthy child.

I'm working on the happy, healthy mom now.

Silent,



They go hand in hand. Fake it till you make it in front of him.

I always caution this(not saying you do it) Never any negative talk about the WH in earshot of your son. I have made the mistake talking to my mom or someone else about my FWW. Didn't do it in front of them but next thing I know I have little ears listening in. Now I don't speak to anyone when they are around. I will walk outside or call from work or use my cell phone. Again not saying you do but I thought I wasn't and now I see maybe it happened.

Second the structure is what kids need. Kids can adapt it hurts but they can. Adapting to a newer safer environment is an easier transition. It sounds like that is what you are doing and that is great.

What's funny is my FWW would never look at a site like this or any site dealing with infidelity but she looked at doctor phil's site. She looked at the points that might solidify her stances. What she didn't look at was that at any point the BS has the right to say I am tired of this and I have chosen to withdraw my love.(something like that)

So that was your decesion and it seems like a good one. You can't be unhappy and project happiness to your WH.

I am now setting the guidlines for my FWW and she has set hers. The things I am asking for will make me happier in this M. If she is unwilling to meet my needs or conditions I will walk. Your's hasn't so you have the right to do that.

I think what is wierd sometimes is that I think from seeing your story you can walk away from this M with your head held high. You can say I tried my hardest and I gave him more chances then he deserved. He chose not to take those opportunities. So as a human being, a good human being, you have a right to stop giving him opportunites and you can stop trying and still know you did your part.

Good luck. I know it is hard but each day you separate yourself from the craziness you will start getting better.

Thanks Frog,

I feel a little more sane everyday; stronger. I feel more okay with my decisions every day, also. I have had a tendency to look back and see my M as my WH has described it to me. The truth is, I was always, in the least, contented and happy. I wouldn't say that I felt like I was surrounded by romance, but I was surrounded by love.

Looking back to understand the present really is ridiculous and serves no purpose. I have decided that if I look back, it will only be to understand myself more, not to look back with scrutiny. We were happy. That's that. We loved each other. Plain and simple. I don't love WH, don't really know him, don't want him in my life, truly.

It's good to hear that my decisions have been sound. In the moment that I make them, I feel strong, confident. It's not until the consequences of my decisions begin to take hold that I flounder a bit. I'm no longer floundering on this one. It's almost 4 weeks now, and I'm feeling the GOOD consequences of my decision to go to Plan B. My son is happier, I'm happier, h311, even my dogs seem more at ease.

I'll still have bad days, and I will come to the forum to aid in finding my way. This place has been a safe haven for me, and I am so grateful the the Harley's found a way to make this happen for we, the embattled BS and FWS.

Yes and the thing is that you can't believe a FWS. LOL.

Their best interest is to make the BS understand that the A was not their fault.

Going against the revision of history means the A was really, really selfish and wrong. No kidding.

I see a common thread in the people that recover. The FWS stops rewriting history and works toward recovery. I think taking ownership is the first step.

My fWW has said there is no justification for an A but then holds on to her justifications.

So now I have looked back and said the past is the past and I can move forward. Not because I believe her past but because I know mine.

I always find it amazing how some can pass judgment on others for things that are OBVIOUSLY wrong, but they don't turn that eye unto themselves. That is why I said that I believed my WH was bending his beliefs and morals to suit his situation. He can still point the finger at others and scoff, but continue to live with his own inappropriate behavior. I'm sure he also has his set of justifications for how miserable he was in his M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Dr. Harley has said (and his comments were derived from a study done in the 1950s) that it is easier for people to change their values than it is for them to change their behavior, so that is what they are inclined to do when their values and behavior come into conflict.

But I agree with you; it is very peculiar to listen to someone cheating on their spouse pass judgment on others for their behavior.

This is where my WH's insistence that 'I have changed, and can't change back' may have come from. Interpretation of this may be 'I have changed my values to more reflect the pursuits of a single man now, and how I TRULY AM, therefore, we don't belong together, and you don't really know me anymore'. Well, DUH! I caught that! Next step is washing it off... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I hate CHANGE from a FWS.

God if there is ever a BS excuse for this crap that is it.

I am not the same person you married. You have changed and I have changed. Change is good and natural.

I refute that. Change is not good. A change for the Better is Good. A change for the worse is bad and selfish.

I changed. To what an adulterer. Are you ok with that change? Hey can I make that change too? Seems fun. Since we are both changing here.

I don't know if I can ever change back. Oh so you always want to be an adulterer?

Well that's not what I mean. You can't change back to a loving caring S? Not saying that. So what the heck are you saying?

I have changed. LOL.

Oh so what has changed is your values so you don't have to face the consequences of your actions.

Can you please give me a list of all the things we used to agree were wrong so I can know what to expect next?

Wow Frog,

You are so good at working with the babble. I'm still working on that GLORIOUS trate. I guess it just takes practice. Hey, I've got spare time now, I sure could use a new hobby, heh, heh.

Seriously, though, you always have a way of explaining what is running through my head. I mean, I'm a huge smarta$$, not in a mean way, and could probably use that craft to my advantage. I was never really good with come-backs when being challenged as a young-un, but I'm older and less afraid to face bullyish attitudes now. Now that the emotion has died down and detachment has really taken hold, I'd be much better at handling my WH's babble.

Thanks for the insight and belly laugh...

Oh you might love it she doesn't.

She thinks circular arguments are normal. As long as the circle comes back to her POV.

My dad used to say if you can't dazzle em with your brilliance baffle em with your BS.

We really did have the change discussion the other day. I finally said yes I see you have changed, but not toward me. You are sober and you are nice etc.

People on the outside of our home think you are great. Let me ask you a question though. If you were talking to your friend and you kept interupting her because you didn't agree with her POV. Then instead of hearing her side you started calling her names what would she thing about you then?

So maybe you need to change again because the person you do that to doesn't like that.

I have gotten good at the babble because of her ability to babble too.

LOL. Practice makes perfect.

I have been reading another poster's sitch today, and it has reaffirmed that Plan B is the safest place for me. No longer am I waiting for something to happen, I'm making things happen, and realizing my place in my marriage and how I was as a partner. I must say, I was a great enabler. I was good at putting my needs last, without really feeling that way. I guess I never really thought I was supposed to want more. I now EXPECT more; not because I'm selfish, but because I want a RECIPROCAL M. I don't have that now. I did at one time, but see that I have allowed boundaries to be crossed as I did not enforce any. My H made the decision to stray, but I enabled the behavior to continue past Dday.

I really was happy in my M, but realize more now that some flaws should not have been ignored or glazed over.