Just an update.

H and I have been working on recovery for the past 2 weeks.

Have counseled with Steve Harley. Have I mentioned how amazing he is?

He has us doing assignments.

We - me specifically - are trying to replenish our love banks. I am very guarded and having trouble letting my defenses down.

I am trying to accept my H's truths as his - and not be so suspect.

We went to some tag sales this morning and decided to go have breakfast, but the restauranr we chose was a no go - OW's car was there. H said "I don't think here is a good idea" I just said "No, it doesn't look as though it is".

I felt like I had been kicked in the stomach. I imagine that there is a lot of that coming my way.

H hasn't done a full disvclosure yet. Steve says there are other steps to go through first. I have faith in him, so I am just trying to do the things that I know are good - being open, honest, speaking my truth, maintaining my boundaries. It's not always eay, but I am finding that it is doable.

Youngest son and H are quickly re-establishing their bond. Older son is still angry, but I have been very respectful of his feelings and we have talked quite a bit, so I hope that his wounds will eventually heal.

I hope we will eventually get to the point where this feels normal and not so forced and artificial as it is sometimes.

WOW, Liz, it's sounds good! I sorry that you had that horrible feeling...you sound good...still very strong!

I wish you all the best! You are amazing!

As for me...I feel like you did...whatever way it goes...I'LL BE GREAT! I know what I would like but if that doesn't happen...OH, well!

I don't think WH is going anywhere...but I might...LOL

Take care, Lizzie! wishing you the best...affirming what you already know...LOL

Lizzie,

Thank you for the update. You were missed.

I think that your WH's statement can be taken as good knowledge...seeing OW's car and not denying that you shouldn't feel what you felt...like a tiny act of protection. Did you share what you felt?

One thing I did with these gut-punching triggers was to speak of them and reach for my WH's hand...just a touch...a connection. Not long.

Don't struggle to let down your walls...speak through them, anyway. And I bet you're doing that.

In my prayers,

LA

It seems like I get on here only to do these quick updates and catch up with some of the posters' situations.

H and I had our second appointment with Steve Harley on Friday.

Apparently, H's first assignment was to tell me why his A happened. I knew he had an assignment but I didn't know what it was. And - this is so good for me - I never once asked him about it during the week or reminded him that he had one. I completely left it where it belonged - with him. In fact, I didn't even think of it until Thursday night. I'm giving myself a gold star for that.

10 minutes before we were to call in, H said "I'm supposed to tell you why I had the affair. That's my assignment. What I am supposed to say - and I'm not sure that I fully buy it - is that I had the A because I allowed someone else to meet my emotional needs". I repeated back to him what he said. He clarified by saying that he still doesn't get the point of all this (counseling) and why we need it.

I explained why I need it. I told him we needed to know why it happened in order to protect our marriage from having it happen again. He said that he KNEW he would never have another affair. I told him that he said those very words to me in April (false recovery) and that he had started back up with OW.

Here is evidence that the fog persists long after the A has ended. H said that when he started back up with her the second time, it wasn't an A because we were seperated.

I told H I disagreed. Then I asked about the fact that she was married and living with her husband - didn't that make it an affair? H said that had nothing to do with him - it was between OW and her husband.

Had to do a lot of breathing on that one. Thank God it was time for our appointment with Steve.

I spoke with him first. He said that the problem was not that H doesn't care, it's that he doesn't fully buy into the concepts of MB. We then spent the next hour on the phone with Steve. He did a great job with H and fully explaining MB to him.

Those of you that know me know how much I love analogies.

This is a good one.

Steve asked H how he knew we could put this marriage back together and protect it on our own. H said that he was re-dedicating himself to the marriage and knew that he would never stray again. Steve asked him how he knew that if he couldn't figure out how it happened in the first place, especially since H told Steve we always had a great marriage. Steve asked H to consider this -

Every night we go to bed and lock all of our doors and windows. One night, an intruder comes in, robs the house, and hurts one of the children. We can't figure out how the intruder got in. Steve asked H - wouldn't you turn the house upside down and ty to find out where the weakness was? Wouldn't you then install better locks and some kind of security system? He said he could guarantee that we wouldn't just go to bed that next night and lock the doors believing that everything would be okay. That is why we need to go through this painful and long process to do the work, find the weakness, and erect a secure barrier to protect the marriage.

At the end of the appointment Steve asked H if he wanted his next assignment or if he wanted to kick things around a liitle bit. Without hesitation, H said, "I'll take the next assignment".

I left the two of them to talk. Then I got back on the phone. Steve asked me how I was doing. I told him I am okay. I am watching to see what H does. My investment in this marriage will be directly proportional to H's effort. Steve said that was good. To remain in a Plan A while H is struggling with all of these new ideas.

When I got off the phone, I went out to the kitchen. H gave me a big hug and a kiss, said "I love you" and said his next assignment was a big one (redo last week's plus another one) and asked for a little bit of time until the next appointment. I said that was fine.

We have been spending a lot of time together, having fun, doing all of the little regular things that we used to do together - grocery shopping, going to the dump, watching movies, riding around - nothing huge, just the little things that when put all together make a life.

I am still cautious, still very cognizant of boys' feeling. Youngest has a counseling appointment on Friday. Oldest son has made some progress as well. He has decided to not move out for now as he says that it is good that I am not trying to force him to do anything against his will.

So, that's where I am. I guess this quick update wasn't so quick!

Awesome Lizzie

Lizzie,

WOW! Sounds like a good start! You are definitely moving in the right direction and so is H. Too Cool!

Lizzie,

It sounds like things are coming together...just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and cheering you on...

Take care!

So we're coming up on 1 month of recovery. H has been here exclusively for the past 2 weeks and almost has all of the stuff out of his apartment. I have not helped him with that. I didn't offer because I want nothing to do with the place where he carried on his A. He also hasn't asked for help.

This is definitely slow going. The last time I did Plan A, H was out of the house. It's much harder this time around. There are so many things I need in order to feel safe, but Steve says that those things have to wait a while.

H is still in the fog. The other night he was talking about this young girl at work (23) who is "fooling around" with the man that H whas been hanging out with all summer. This friend is 28, has an XGF that he sees, a current "sorta" GF, and is now carrying on with this young married woman at work. Both use my H as a confidant. I told my H that my feeling is that it was inappropriate to be involved in discussions about personal matters with the opposite sex. I told him I didn't see that as protecting the marriage. He replied that he was not interested at all, that he was just listening to both of them. I again stated my belief. He replied that I sound like Steve Harley, and he doesn't know why he can't have female friends. This was tough for me because I wanted to immediately jump down his throat and say "You idiot, how do you think your affair started? By talking to a woman about her marital problems and then all of a sudden YOU had marital problems". But, I couldn't do that. Like Steve says, H is going to have to arrive at these conclusions on his own, in his own time.

I felt better when I remembered that these things are his truth right now. I don't need to accept it as THE truth. or MY truth. I don't need to argue with him, convince him, or refute his truth. I can just calmly state my truth and rely on Steve to help us through this whole process.

Tough work for a girl who wants to fix everything yesterday, but I'm doing it.

Off topic, what has happened to MB? Where is WAT and still seeking? I'm missing those guys. They have been with me from the start.

Good Morning, Lizzie!

I've seen SS around but haven't seen WAT.

I hear how hard it is for you right not with H still being in the fog. Outside of that, it sounds like things are going well.

It's good to see that you realized that you wanted to refute your H's truth and didn't.

Well, I don't have much to say...I look forward to hearing more from you...Take care! Best wishes!

Hello.
I see you are still working on things. I'll take that as a good thing.

Like Steve says, H is going to have to arrive at these conclusions on his own, in his own time.

Yes, it has to be that way. You must wonder if he ever will arrive.



I felt better when I remembered that these things are his truth right now. I don't need to accept it as THE truth. or MY truth. I don't need to argue with him, convince him, or refute his truth. I can just calmly state my truth and rely on Steve to help us through this whole process.

That's why you called Steve, and it's worth a lot. I see by your comments that you have a good hold on YOU. That's all you really can get a hold on. He has to do the same for himself. I am pleased that he wants to. I hope he has the ability.

Tough work for a girl who wants to fix everything yesterday, but I'm doing it.

I nod when I read, and I am glad he has you to help him. I don't know how you feel from day to day. I don't know how much it still hurts, or how much you smile, but I do know that if it can made to work, you will do it.


I'm not sure what's up with WAT. I think he has mixed feelings about posting these days.

My sons take some things hard too. They sometimes take time to come to decisions. They don't talk much while they think about things.

Almost always, they realize what is best, and accept it in their lives.

In the long term, it is best if you can reconcile. They are YOUR sons, I suspect they'll figure it out.

Still, things are up in the air for you, not setttled, not "happy ever after."

Thanks for the updates. The hope we have for you is a bright spot in the fabric of life. May it glow brightly forever, and ever.

Do you smile more these days?

Is it enough for now?

SS

Hi SS,

It's so good to "se" you.

Am I smiling more? Not necessarily. If you remember, I had gotten to a pretty good place right before this recovery attempt started. So, I am still feeling good and at peace - within myself and about myself.

Selfish as it may sound, this recovery attempt is all about me. I am doing it for me. So that I can work these issues out. If it works out for us, that's good. If not, this will help me to not bring these same things forward into another relationship.

I am keeping up with my IC. I have told her how things feel artificial sometimes and how I am guarded.

She says that is because I am acting consciously, reinforcing new behavior.

There have been one or two instances where H has acted one way and I would normally respond in a certain fashion. I am more aware of these things now and changing my part, changing the dynamic.

Example - H will sometimes criticize in a veiled way and I would normally try to "fix" the problem, or apologize and feel bad. This happened the other morning -I think it may have some type of PA component to it.

H: "Wow, you put way too much peanut butter on my sandwich this morning."

Old Lizzie: "I'm sorry. I'll put less on next time".

New Lizzie: (with a cheerful smile) "Really? Oh well, better too much than too little - you can scrape off what you don't like." and then changes the subject.

I notice that te more I act differently, the more it seems he attempts to provoke old behavior.

But, all in all, it feels good. And yes, it is enough for now.

Lizzie,

Sounds like you have a really good IC. Good choosing there...also, thank you for updating.

About the peanut butter...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I hear you saying sometimes your H's personality sticks to the top of your mouth?

You said Old Lizzie owned and apologized for what wasn't hers. She was a fixer. New Lizzie isn't...she's respectful and open, communicative.

I saw Old Lizzie in New Lizzie's response (still provided a fix)...

In response to his statement..."Are you asking me to do or not do something? I'm not sure of your statement."

Clarify and confirm...no way to sneak a DJ past yourself that way. Supports your conscious response and reinforces you do NOT want to act out (be reactive) on what isn't yours.

Listen and repeat.

And just between us...you got any resentment stored down in your gut...for yourself...for choosing recovery? Are you making him stuff because that is your pattern or giving from your power?

LA

Hi LA.

Thanks for checking in.

You are right - Old Lizzie was still providing a fix. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll work on it!

I have been having some days where there is resentment stored in my gut.

Are you making him stuff because that is your pattern or giving from your power?

Can you expand on this? I'm not really sure what you mean.

I believe my resentment is coming from the fact that I don't feel safe. I am having a hard time waiting for all of the components for this recovery to be in place.

I don't have a NC letter.

I don't have access to anything - email accounts, passwords, phone records, post office key or full disclosure of any of the facts. H initially said that he would give me these, but hasn't yet. Steve Harley said to not ask for these things yet, so I am following his advice. I have not asked for anything or about anything.

That leaves me feeling vulnerable.

So on Monday, I decided to get a keylogger for the computer. I was running late for a doctor's appt., so I hurried through the installation. I thought I had deleted everything, but apparently I forgot to delete the temporary files. I am not very computer literate. So, I worked on Monday night and came home Tuesday morning. I went to check the log with no small amount of trepidation.

H had been on the computer and the first thing he did was go into the temporary files. I don't know if he put 2 and 2 together, but he must have. The files clearly stated "invisible keylogger" on them. He then checked the want ad digest and then got off.

So, he hasn't said anything. But he also hasn't been on the computer since.

So, I have been wondering if he was checking on me or just making sure the coast was clear for him.

He is probably checking his email at work before the other workers get there. He is usually the first one there.

If he asks, I will tell him the truth - that I felt I needed to protect me, that part of reestablishing trust is being able to verify that he is not having any further contact, and that I wish he had been the one to offer to protect me.

I wish I hadn't screwed that up.

I'll also ask Steve about it.

It will work, or it won't.

I doubt the key logger will make a big difference. If he doesn't realize the damage he has done, and begin to protect your feelings by sharing everything, I suspect you won't want him anyway.

He has a LOT, LOT, LOT to do. I wish he was faster, and better at it. For now, trust Steve.

What do you do when you think about it, and realize you still have a long ways to go?
Sigh, and relax, or try to come up with ways to force it?

I think LA knows, and I have learned......... it's always good to look inward. Fix what you have power to fix, joy in things that make you glad, and ignore, or put off things that can't be changed for now - unless they become intolerable.

You know, smile more -
"don't worry, be happy."
Perhaps best sung with an accent. (grin)

SS

Thanks for checking in SS.

I've had mixed feelings the last couple of days. Probably pretty normal.

Maybe I just need to vent here and you guys can help me get back my perspective.

Sometimes I wonder just why I chose recovery. I think it would have been easier to just proceed with the D. I was there. I was ready.

But those are my walls talking. I am fighting against this recovery in some ways. I am looking at what is wrong and what is missing instead of what is right and more importantly, what is mine.

I have a huge running list in my head of the things that my H hasn't done -

hasn't apologized to the kids
hasn't given me the post office key
hasn't given me any passwords
hasn't done his assignments from SH
hasn't done full disclosure

But then, I think -
well, H is home. And then another little voice repeats what my oldest son said - "Mom, his girlfriend dumped him, he's broke, he lives in a dump, has no one to cook for him or do his laundry, so he's crawling back home. He'll do it again you know - next chance he gets."

He leaves his cell phone out in the open. I checked the password and it is now the same as the one we always had.

He accounts for all of his time.

He has been very loving.

Gee, I feel better just typing this.

Next appointment with SH is the week of the 15th. I have been worrying about that too. Wondering if H will do his assignment and if he will balk at the counseling again. Choosing to waste my time on that (see I said it LA, so you don't have to!)

I know I am on the right path, and I have full faith in Steve Harley. I just need support I guess. And perspective.

And can someone shut my villagers up please!

I've had mixed feelings the last couple of days. Probably pretty normal.

If you were "UP" all the time, I would think you were high on something.

Maybe I just need to vent here and you guys can help me get back my perspective.

Or maybe we can tell jokes, and change the subject?


Sometimes I wonder just why I chose recovery. I think it would have been easier to just proceed with the D. I was there. I was ready.

It would have been easier. Many of those who came here, and recovered their marriages have reported that the recovery was much more difficult than getting the A to end. After all, how do you go from mistrust to trust? From anger, and often bitterness to love, and peace?

But those are my walls talking. I am fighting against this recovery in some ways. I am looking at what is wrong and what is missing instead of what is right and more importantly, what is mine.

You don't know yet if this will work. You can't know it yet. It is your walls talking, your doubts, your fears.

You are trying this because it's the right thing, not because it's the easy thing.

It is easy to base decisions on what is missing. It is difficult to live in hope, and faith when past experience was so painful. I can't make promises for you, I know you don't expect that really.

Anything is possible.
Failure is possible.
Glorious recovery with love and passion is possible.

I have a huge running list in my head of the things that my H hasn't done -

I have a huge running list of things my W has not done, and she - things I have not done. I can't fully trust her, nor she me, but ........... mostly I do. Mostly.


hasn't apologized to the kids
hasn't given me the post office key
hasn't given me any passwords
hasn't done his assignments from SH
hasn't done full disclosure

We tend to judge others by our own ability and our own outlook and code of ethics.

I watched my grandson take his first few steps the other day. I know he can walk, I saw him do it then. He dropped back the ground and began to crawl again. It feels more safe to him, he knows he can do it, he feels uncomfortable walking at this point.

I thought about that and what happens on MB. I don't know why we are all so different. I don't understand why adults that could do some things just fine a year ago can't seem to walk on their own during, or shortly after and A. It's like they had a stroke and have to learn all over again.

We judge them by our ability, we think things should happen on a time table we could manage, not one they can manage.

I can't tell you if your H will learn to walk again. He may remain a cripple - by choice perhaps?

You must make your decisions - and remember that you still have choices. Freedom of choice has not been taken from you by your decision to try recovery.

But then, I think -
well, H is home. And then another little voice repeats what my oldest son said - "Mom, his girlfriend dumped him, he's broke, he lives in a dump, has no one to cook for him or do his laundry, so he's crawling back home. He'll do it again you know - next chance he gets."


If someone quits smoking because they have to - do they still get the benefit of quitting? Does it matter why they quit?
Maybe - maybe not.

Is there value in helping him recover, no matter the reason he is trying?

He leaves his cell phone out in the open. I checked the password and it is now the same as the one we always had.

He accounts for all of his time.

He has been very loving.

Gee, I feel better just typing this.

Gee, I feel better reading it. LOL.

It looks like recovery doesn't come all at once, but little by little. Keep in mind that YOUR CHOICES ARE ALWAYS THERE.

If you recover, and he gets better, and you love him, and trust him again, he still will have problems, and he won't be perfect. I know you already know this, but it helps to review sometimes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Next appointment with SH is the week of the 15th. I have been worrying about that too. Wondering if H will do his assignment and if he will balk at the counseling again. Choosing to waste my time on that (see I said it LA, so you don't have to!)

The wonderful thing about this is that all you have to worry about is you. Worrying about him is a choice. Remember we talked about you having choices?

Liz, you are free.

Think about it.

You really are free. That should be a relief, not a burden.

I know I am on the right path, and I have full faith in Steve Harley. I just need support I guess. And perspective.


I have faith in you. I'm not being trite when I say it.


And can someone shut my villagers up please!

They sell the nicest muzzles at petco.

God be with you. May you understand who you are. May you know how good you really can be if you keep at it.

SS

Lizzie,

Look at you examining...I don't see a vent. I see a focus where you cannot control. I see you coming from fear, not love...fear for yourself, for your sons and fear at your WH.

And I see you coming from love when you decided to take the hard road of recovery...love of yourself, for your sons and that fearful vulnerability to love your H again.

SS nailed each one...bringing reality to you, as it is, with love. I'm going to address your villagers...

We don't shut them up...we listen to them...we hold the fear from which they were made and know the signal...that you feel great fear. We rock and sing to them, owning them...because they love you through the fear...we do not act on them because we know they don't believe we are this brave, this true, this whole. And you do.

You know.

You cannot be duped. Others can deceive...you cannot be duped. Deal with that ancient shame inside yourself. You choose. He chooses. That's it. No duping involved. Focus on you and what you fear most. Listen to it in your son's words and know that is his fear, also.

Validate it. Living can be scary. We live, anyway.

For every chance we give another to change...we give that to ourselves. Your sons are learning how to love from choice, not feelings. Through you. How awesome is that? So they can know they are loved through choice, not in their control, not from them earning...and they learn they can be loved through anything...even when they make destructive choices. You're showing them how humans truly are...and how marvelous being human is really.

Takes time, keeping your focus inward, awareness up and your heart open. Ultimate act of bravery in my book. Well worth the journey.

Know how brave you are. Accept by knowing what you feel and what you're signals mean...not by acting on your feelings.

You believe it would have been braver to divorce? You were ready. As if that was the hardest accomplishment...yet, you perceive it as easier...know your internal conflicts. Different beliefs tugging you one way and another, and your emotions from them, going up and down.

Each moment you stay in this marriage, you prove to yourself you are whole, complete and what WH does doesn't determine who you are. Healing him heals you. And vice versa. Look for the healing. Hold the fear.

You can do this.

LA

SS and LA,

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I have been mulling them over for the last few days.

My H had a couple of his friends over on Sunday. BIL and SIL came over too. The guys played horseshoes and my H made a new fire pit out back for a fire. I made spaghetti and meatballs and apple pie. His friends were here from noon until after 9PM. It was really a great day. I say all of this because at first, I was really reticent to have his friends over.

I wondered if they supported his A. What did they think of me? I have had so many people say to me that they think I never should have taken him back - "you'll never be able to trust him", "where's your self-respect? I'd never let anyone get away with that.", "you could do so much better.", etc - and then I realized a lot of that came from old, ancient stuff. Watching my mother take my father back time after time when he cheated. I remember thinking she was a doormat.

So I have been reviewing all that you both said. Knowing that I am making this choice freely. And yes, LA, owning my villagers and giving them the same reassurances that I am giving my sons. Reparenting them because they are from the child in me. She's afraid and that's why I can't give over control to her. Acting from love, not fear.

And I have answered those people making all of the comments. "My H is a really wonderful man. He made a mistake. People make mistakes. I vowed to love him for better or worse, through good times and bad, and that is what I am doing. I am choosing to recover my marriage."

And we have a new puppy. A miniature dachsund named Lucie. She has been one of the things we are doing together - training her, teaching her, spending time with her. I see her as symbolic of this recovery - needing care and attention, and needing to learn so much. Kind of like SS's analogy about having to learn to crawl before you can walk.

Or maybe I just wanted a new puppy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

I got called in to work an extra shift yesterday. H was home for a half day. I came into the office this morning to use the computer and H had left a notebook on the desk open to a page on which he had user names and passwords for all of his financial accounts. I am choosing to believe he did that intentionally <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, of course I checked into some of them, mostly bank and cell phone statements.

I am glad that H is at work so that I have time to digest some of the stuff I discovered. I believe that FOW has 2 cell phone numbers - probably one of them that her H isn't aware of (remember that FOW is the town bicycle!). I have phone records from July to present. H called FOW daily anywhere from 5 to 10 times and checked his vioce mail almost as frequently. The picture that those records painted was one of addiction. My H trying desperately to reach FOW several times a day on both of those numbers and then, in desperation, he would call her home number. In between all of these attempts, he would check his voice mail to see if she had returned his call.

They spoke while we were away for that weekend in August.

They spoke the entire week that we were discussing the terms of our reconciliation. Right up to the night before he agreed to counseling and we went away for the weekend together.

Nothing since.

When we went away that weekend, I asked him how long it had been over. He told me that unofficially, it had beeen over since he took me to his step-mother's house in August, and officially it had been over since Labor Day weekend. Yet, the calls continued. My love bank has suffered a big withdrawl over that one.

My appt. with SH is on the 15th. H did ask when next appointment was but has not yet done his assignment.
If this time is more of the same, I will discuss my next move with SH.

On another note, I spoke with my BIL this past week. He asked how things were going. He said that he and another of H's brothers were discussing this and they remembered that their stepfather behaved the same way that my H is now. Their stepfather would cheat on their mother, then return home, and nobody would mention it. They all pretended like it never happened. BIL thinks that is why H wants to sweep this all under the rug - it is what he learned.

Good to know, but it doesn't change what it is I need to move forward in this recovery.

(((((((Liz)))))))

It's been awhile since I hugged you so I thought "what the heck"! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wow, that's some pretty intense stuff. You sound like you're holding up pretty good considering the facts. I think that you are doing a wonderful job. I'm sorry to hear that your LB took a hard hit.

I have to hand it to you for being so levelheaded and knowing yourself. You have been an inspiration to me! Really you have! I'm sure that you will handle this too with class and grace! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />