SO~

I meant to add:

It does happen all the time where the OM is denied any rights to the OC even after proving his paternity, as well as proving he is "fit" to be the father. I don't have the case law right here in front of me to prove it to you, but I've read a lot of cases in the past... enough to know it happens. I had a friend here at MB who was a FWW w/ OC at the same time I was. She also happened to be an attorney, and she sent me several cases from my state as well as others. Case after case were in favor of the M couple~ regardless of what the DNA said.

Like everything else... it's not ALL cases, but you'd be surprised at just how many shut the OM, (bio father), out.

I think Mr. W recently did some reading up on this subject, so he may be a good one to check with if you're really interested.

Interesting......I stand corrected, I guess ya learn something new each day. Personaly I dont understand that at all.....two people have an affair......the WW gets preg. and gets to keep her child, the OM involved is shut completely out of the kids life. The whole situation was wrong to begin with, but it still does not seem right to me that the child is kept from his bio father, while the mother can move on.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Clearly, you don't understand the idea of preserving marriages. Your statements still go along with scorned OW/OM mentality.

"Anything for the good of the innocent child! Screw the rest of you.....you are adults! Or maybe you are COM? Too bad. OC needs and well being reign over the rest of you." Sorry, but ALL people must be considered in this situation and their is no simple, painless answer.

There is time for changes later with regards to bio-dad. The marriage, if salvageable, must be repaired first.

I really doubt the mother just "moves on". I think it takes lots of work and continuing heartache. There is NO easy answer.

AD and Tigger.......was it that easy?

Here's a thread debating this issue very passionately from early September on the GQII board.

Link ---> Paternity Presumption debate thread

I just checked my notes that I happened to still have on my desk (I need to clean up around here more often) that indicate KENTUCKY (where I presume you live) IS a paternity presumption state like Michigan and California. Paternity Presumption is an old common law traditional conservative carry over wherein a married man is presumed to be the father of his wife's child. OM would have ZERO standing to sue for custody or visitation as he would have no ability to force testing or acknowledgement of the child. In some states, even if the testing was done, OM still can't break the presumption. However, these laws are evolving around the country as the marital unit is under attack so protect yourselves legally to avoid be the costly and difficult test case for your state.

If you desire to keep OM away then I'd strongly advise neither you nor your wife communicate with him at all. Since there is no child yet I presume no paternity testing has been done. Unless your attorney advises otherwise, don't do any testing nor in any way acknowledge in writing that OM IS the father.

Please consult your attorney before doing anything. Once the child is born you MAY decide to conduct private testing to exclude yourself as the father. As far as telling child his father may be someone else or is someone else you likely should do so just like you would if your child had been adopted. Realize that by accepting this child as your own, YOU will permanently be on the hook to support this child. There is no going back. Finally, someday at your discretion and without contact with your then former wayward wife YOU may decide to personally arrange visitation or other communication between the bio father/OM and YOUR child. If not, the child and OM can seek each other out when the child is 18.

As far as OM being in the delivery room. He has no right to it as he has ZERO legal rights at this moment.

Mr. Wondering

SO~

The law isn't set up in order to punish the OM and reward the WW. Among other reasons, it's set up to protect M and the family. Imagine if it were otherwise... any ol' guy could walk up to any H and say, "hey *I'm* your child's father", and I'm taking you to court... and the court would have to hear it.

You know what though SO, and I hate to be the one to break it to you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />... trust me when I say there aren't too many of these guys banging down the courtroom doors to claim their paternity. Most are only too happy to run the other way, and run FAST. I know mine was. But that worked for us, so it was a good thing.

You also might want to consider different perspective when it comes to this law. Yah, it's all fine and dandy for people like my H and me. But think about the poor BH who does NOT want to automatically be assumed the father. That guy has to FIGHT to GET OUT of his assumed paternity.

If you really think about it SO... except in very RARE instances where the OM actually wants to be daddy... it's a fabulous deal for the OM, and not a shaft.

BTW, I am going to put the list here so I can throw away my notes on the subject.

Paternity Presumption states by statute or case law:

Alabama, California, Minnesota, North Dakota, Florida, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wyoming


States where the law is still very unclear:

Missouri, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island & South Dakota

All other states don't recognize or apply the paternity presumption.


Of course, these laws are ever changing and I don't recall when my resource was published. BTW, these laws typically are utilized by married men trying to escape responsibility for children that are not theirs. For example, I believe in Michigan if a married man finds out 25 months after the child is born the kid is not his he is still presumed the father and on the hook legally for support. These laws are typically not used by OM's to establish rights as they typically don't want the financial obligation along with severly limited visitation.

Mr. Wondering

so does my wife have to actually ask the OM if he wants to be part of the childs life? or just establish NC?

Hon, at this point NEITHER you nor your FWW should be in contact with OM. Let the onus be on HIM if he wants to take up a legal battle. For now you work on healing yourself and your marriage. When the child is born YOU sign the BC if that is what YOU want. Have you read any of the books that are recommended on this site? I highly recommend "After the Affair" by Janis Abrahms for your wife to read with you. I also strongly recommend Harley's "His Needs/Her Needs" for a plan to affair proof your M. God bless you in this journey. It ain't easy.

I guess Im thinking like a more "typical" father that loves his kids. I dont think I could bare not seeing my child. I understand what you are saying though.

Thanks for the information.

your telling me it's not easy.....I will update tomorrow after we talk tonight....thank you to all who have commented....

What does your wife want???

For me personally, if I were going to take on the responsibility of this child I would insist that I call the shots about OM otherwise I'd be out of there. Now your wife is still pregnant and there is time. I wouldn't be out today but I'd push for complete no contact, consult an attorney, and insist that OM communicate ONLY with me (or my attorney). Once he withdrawals from the affair with your wife (through absolute no contact) I believe it highly unlikely he will desire contact with the child or paternity at all. If he sticks around, communicates only with you, behaves honorably (including repentence and the seeking of forgiveness), seeks out an attorney to communicate desires and legal interests with you and your attorney, etc....I may feel that his involvement in MY childs life MAY be productive and pursue some agreement with him outside the courts for some limited involvement. The most important word therein, to me, is "I". I decide what is best for MY child as our marriage can't recover if there is ANY relationship between wife and OM.

Now if you wife wants him at all and insists on his involvement now and/or hereafter that would likely be too much for me. It won't work. Recovery can not be had with 3 people. I'd fight for custody of the 6 year old and go on my way...releasing the wife to OM.

There is also the issue that this is NOT your wife's first affair. She is a serial cheater and recovery for such individuals/marriages is VERY difficult. MB is the best recovery plan in the country. SHE needs to be here. If you can afford phone counseling with the Harley's then do it now. If not, posting herein and/or calling in to his radio program may be the next best thing.

If your wife comes here she should read McBecca's story fully. It's here on this board and earlier on the GQII board. She has an OC and had these same paternity issues with OM and her Betrayed husband was very hesitant to recover. They are giving it a go without OM in their lives at all.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Absolutely not. She owes him nothing. Establish NC and keep it that way. If he really wants to seek paternity, he will. You don't have to help him though. It's all on him.

And, keep him away from the delivery room if that's what you wish. He has no authority to be there. At this point, he's no different than any Joe Schmoe off the street. That's just the way it is.

Seek the guidance of an attorney though... esp if he's making noises about seeking rights. Then you'll know exactly where you stand.

Here's what gets me about your posts, SO. You come here as if YOU are the xOM, yet you truly have NO idea what a couple in this specific situation is actually going through! As Aut said, MOST xOM LOVE our H's for taking on this OC as their own! They don't see it as missing out on anything! It really ticks me off to see "your opinion" of how the couple who WANTS to save their M, even with an OC thrown into the mix, and how wrong FWW's such as myself and Aut are to "keep the OC away from" the xOM. There are SO many reasons, as I have shown in the copied post from WAY back 6 years ago, why we NEVER have and NEVER will let xOM know! xOM is whacko crazy, threatened my H's life, in fact, told me immediatly after my then neighbor pulled the two apart that the only thing that kept him from killing my H was my DD looking through the window!!!! SO you tell me WHY this guy should have ANY access to our family and/or lives???? Just because he deposited his "seed" and created a life???? Then, to make it seem as if we FWW's go on with our lives, happy as can be, NOPE, sorry to burst your bubble there, but the guilt that I've lived with for MANY years about what I've done, you will NEVER be able to imagine! SO, before you continue to judge, please remember that you have NO idea what we've been through, will go through, because you don't have an OC to deal with.

We checked our state laws, thanks to a wonderful poster by the name of Bystander who no longer posts here. He recommended that my H file a paternity request if he didn't wish to be responsable for the next 18 yrs, but we had already chosen our path of recovery by that time. We looked into what we were required to do, by the law, and what laws protected us. Our state even mentioned that if the xOM was stupid enough to not know how babies are made, and doesn't file a paternity suit w/in 90 days of suspected due date, he would have a hard time proving anything. It stated that in the states family laws!!!! So, will I ever feel guilt over never letting xOM know? NEVER!!!!

Now, WDIW, PLEASE due internet searches for what your state laws provide for you and your W. Have NO further contact, AT ALL with xOM . He has NO rights to this child until DNA is proven, or not at all depending on your state laws and your wishes. Look on this site for no contact letter examples, write one with your W, have her sign it and send it, return receipt requested, with a copy for either your own files or your attorney. If xOM continues to try to contact you, file for a RO. UNTIL this child is born, and then depending on your state's laws, this xOM doesn't need to know ANYTHING. PLEASE, encourage your W to come here. Aut and myself are more than willing to help her in any way we can. If you can't afford the counseling with the Harley's, PLEASE look for a PRO MARRIAGE counselor that you can use and get help! Can it be done w/out counseling? Yes, we've done it, but it hasn't been easy by any means. And, it looks as if Mr. W can possibly help you with finding the right state laws to keep your M protected.

See Autumn.....this is the part I just dont understand. Forgive me lord, forgive me all who are here. I know he doesnt belong in the delivery room.....but, to act like he is nothing at all and has nothing to say or do with all this is weird to me. They did create a child together.....he had a hand in that (whether its wrong or not).

I need to pray on this one. Forgive me yall.

Hey, I was a BS, but no there wasnt a child conceived out of the A my EX had either....I realize it. I already apologized for not really getting all this.........Im gonna have to pray on it. Is any of the way this whole thing is going to be handles scriptural???? Im just curious? Or is this how people think it should be handled?

It is what it is, SO.

It began wrong....everything from here on out is damage control.

I know it's hard to grasp....but there are those out there that ARE better off not knowing the biology of it all....really.

But...pray on it...for your peace...

- Kimmy

Let me strike that...not everything from here on out is damage control....I'd hate to look at the (my) babies like that...everything from here on out should be done with their best interests at heart. Only a bit of it is damage control...as they grow, it becomes much more .... um...golly...life enriching...yes...it can be the most wonderful, life enriching thing.

But it started so very hard.

- Kimmy

I can't believe I'm about to say this... but we all get a piece of the hurt pie in these instances SO. In the situation where the wife had the A and created an OC... that's just how it is for the OM... call it weird, unfair, whatever, but the OM has no more rights to the child than the next door neighbor, unless or until the H & W pave the way for him or he himself attempts to fight it in court.

I realize the couple CAN treat the OM differently and make him a part of it all if they so wish. I'm just saying it is well within their rights by virtue of the laws NOT to include him. Is that what bothers you SO... when a couple excercises their rights as a M couple and family? I know I said this but I don't think you realize just how rare it is for a guy to claim his paternity. Trust me, most of these guys are out partying and celebrating the fact they got a get outta jail free card. It's the guys who got an unmarried woman P who are not so "fortunate".

Here's the thing, SO, you may have apologized for not really getting it all, but you continue to judge us! No there is No scriptures that deal with this specific issue. The closest is King David and Bathsheeba. Should we handle it in the same way???? I hope not! God dealt with that sin, just as He's dealt with my sins. I thank Him EVERY day that he DIDN'T give me the same punishment that David received! Using your mantra of, "I was the BS" doesn't help, because having the OC thrown into the mix changes EVERYTHING! Heck, I was the BS MANY MORE TIMES than you were, yet it doesn't change anything with the end result. Trust me, we PRAYED about this for a LONG time! My H was there when I took the P test all the way till now and beyond. God hates divorce, and even so, has given those who just can't deal with adultry an out by divorce. YET, it does say as a last resort. We did, are doing, and will do everything we can to keep our M intact. I know I'm just hitting my head against a brick wall here, but until you have to deal with an OC, no matter from which aspect you can not imagine what you would or wouldn't do. Just like the statistics which say that the majority of couples would split if they learned that their spouse cheated on them, well, looking here, it's pretty much the opposite. You can't say HOW you will act/react until you are actually in that situation.

Oh, and another thing, if you wished, you could do a search for sites that support the OM/OW and see how many xOM are bemoaning the fact that the xMW has kept the child and stayed with her H compared to the xOW.

You are thinking of children created w/in a M and the true bonds of love. In an A, it is pure fantasy, and when that fog lifts, more of a nightmare for the person involved with the A. Until you've lived it, it's not easy to explain, but just know, my H is very happy with our decision, especially that xOM will never be involved in our lives again. And, I'm sure that xOM moved on pretty quickly with not much more thought to me, other than hatred for what he feels we caused him(long story).