Hi Karen!

You aren't still exposing are you? It shouldn't be going on once the A is over. And please don't feel any shame over your WH choice to have an A. that's his to bear, not yours.

How was your weekend? How are you doing?

~ Marsh

Marsh,
I'm not exposing anymore. I found a counselor that will begin counseling us next week. It was too funny when I was interviewing him with all of the questions that Dr. Harley suggests. It is very hard for me to snoop & find out exactly if there is NC. His celphone is only in his name & I have tried to make changes, change it to detail billing, etc. & they will not do anything w/o him calling or adding me to the account. I am just hoping that he continues to be honest with me. The sleeping arrangements have only changed slightly, he moved from the mattress on the floor in the game room to 1/2 way down the hall to my 18 year old son's room. My son stays at his girlfriend's house all of the time now. I voiced my opinion when he was kidding around the other day saying that my son asked him not to sleep in his bed. which did not happen, my H was just making a joke about it & I told him that it was pretty rude to be sleeping in my son's bed...his response was, rude to who? Ryan? & I said "no, your wife", I guess it didn't matter to him because he is still there. My girlfriend kids around & says, "we'll he is getting closer to your room"! he/he I had to move the counseling appt. from this week to next week because he had a couple of days working out of the area & couldn't make the appt. I was disappointed & he knew it. He said it isn't going to hurt to move it one week, and of course I told him it would to me. His response was..."it's not going to get fixed in one appt. anyhow, so moving it a few days isn't going to matter". Boy, I'll tell ya...when this is all said & done I want to sit on a cloud...just for a day if I can! I really want him to know how much I have gone through for him; one WHOLE year of this stuff is a killer! Even though he has lived home on & off in the past year, 6 months of it; we still have not been intimate since last December, wow! Can't even imagine that day, I'm only looking far enough to him coming back to our bed, yikes, what a road to travel yet!
The weekend was ok. I put on a happy face, have conversation with him & try to be the most supportive wife I can be. It has now been 8 weeks since he came home. We have family coming in for Thanksgiving, wonder if he'll be able to give up my son's room?, that's the guest room! he/he I guess time will tell.
Thanks again for checking in. Karen

Hi Karen!

Let me just say this...I like you! Inspite of all you've been going through your sense of humor and fun personality shines through. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Yeah, I'd say after being surrounded by a cloud for over a year...(his foggy thinking and speech) you deserve to sit upon one for at least a day.



Ouch! You poor thing. There's alot of that around here, I'm afraid. You might want to do some on-line shopping for some "toys" if you get my drift. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Have you asked him why he hasn't moved back into your bed? I'd be curious to hear what his reply would be.



Maybe this link will give you some ideas.... CLICK HERE!

Hang in there, Karen!

~ Marsh

Marsh,
Thanks for the spy info & your encouragement. I'm not too sure how my personality doesn't dwindle away; I guess it is just months of pain that make us numb to life (& all the other "fun" things, like intimacy"). I would love so much to "live life again"! That is why I am waiting for my chance on the cloud, above the fog & closer to everlasting happiness; after all of this I really think my children & I truly deserve it! If you don't mind me asking, "how long did your situation last?", as I am assuming that you too have gone through something similar? H says that he doesn't sleep with me because he isn't ready yet...he can't explain it, but when he is ready, he says I'll know, patience again creeps up my alley. Thanks again. Karen

Hi Karen,

Why did your WH say was the reason he broke things off w/ the OW?

Are you going to snoop? You MUST know for certain the A is over!

My story:

It lasted between Feb.of this year through August. It began on a private message board as a friendship. But, it quickly became a VERY powerful emotional Affair. The only time I was happy was when I was "getting my fix". The moment I was done talking to him I was miserable! I distanced myself from EVERYONE. My BH, my kids, my family, my friends, God...everyone! I realize now that the reason I was distancing myself from everyone was b/c they were reminders that what I was doing was WRONG!!! But, by distancing myself from them, I was making my A even MORE important to me. I knew EVERY step of the way that what I was doing was wrong, but felt (and then believed) that I couldn't get myself out of it. I hated the person I was becoming. My oldest daughter kept asking me what was going on w/ me. I just kept telling people that I was depressed. I WAS depressed! And I am a happy person by nature. Folks here describe the WS as an alien. And I'm telling you, Karen, that fit me to a T.

I felt as though I was losing my mind. I was doing something that went against everything I believed in. And my fantasy world (the A) was in constant conflict w/ my real world.

My dad was dying... my emotional state was crashing. I decided that I had to end things. I couldn't do it all at once, but started to do it in pieces. My dad died. And then I frantically started searching the net for help. I had NO one I felt I could talk to about what I had done. I was too ashamed. I posted on different Christian message boards...but no one responded to me. Finally I found MB. This place saved my life. I gained the courage and strength to write a NC letter to OM. And then I told my BH about it.

It's been over 2 months of NC for me. Staying away from OM has been one of the hardest things I've ever done. I was miserable going through w/drawals. I knew that I could have temporarily ended the pain of w/drawals by breaking NC..but I kept reading and posting here.

It was all a fantasy. It was as wonderful as I could imagine. Heck, if you're going to have a fantasy, why not IMAGINE it as perfect?

The A would NEVER have remained perfect, if I left my DH, kids, family, friends, faith, and life behind.

All A's are the same. They are fantasy...trying to blend into reality. But, they can't.

Your WH probably doesn't know all this. He's just suffering through w/drawals. Hoping the pain will end soon and that he can feel loving towards you again. It would really help him to read the books that are offered here. They would help YOU too.

Why not print out two copies of the Emotional Questionnaire here, and fill them out?

You both need to know there IS hope for your marriage.

Keep posting.

~ Marsh

Hi Marsh,
Thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm very glad to see that you are on the "recovery road". My H decided for himself that it was time to decide what he wanted to do. After an entire year of stringing me & the OW along it was time for him to finally make his decision. He took 6 weeks of living in a efficiency motel (the worst that I have ever seen), going to the
Laundromat & eating at fastfood restaurants to finally help him to make his decision. Oh, it was pretty sad; I stopped by one evening to see him; yikes! He left US & a beautiful brand new home nestled on 17 acres of wooded land, which is land that ALL of us cleared with our bare hands & the house that he built himself...for that motel!, it was awful! Not only all of the "material" things, but US...a newborn son, 2 stepchildren, 92 yr old grandmother in the basement & ME!
What do you think about the sleeping arrangements? Can you relate to that? My H is certainly a "different" kind of guy...not the type to just have S** for the sake of it, has to be in his heart! Even when we first dated, it took a very long time for us to become intimate. After that everything was fine though, actually pretty great! Do you think that could be the reason for the sleeping arrangements?

Hey Karen!

I can't tell you how great it is to have my mind back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, you see the crazy choices your WH has made and wondered WTF? Right? Yeah, well he has wondered it too. It really is a mind bender. You're looking at it from the outside... it's much loonier on the inside I can assure you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

If I had allowed my EA to progress to a PA, then I believe I'd be in much worse shape today. I doubt I'd be sleeping w/ my DH yet.

You pretty much answered your own question about why he's still not sleeping w/ you. He still is hanging on to feelings for the A ( NOT the OW). As long as he maintains NC his feelings will lesson for it, and he will be open to loving you again.

In the mean time, what do you know about emotional needs? Have you read the articles written here about them? They are key to winning your WH's heart back. It would be VERY helpful if you both could fill out that questionarie... the OW met your WH's ENs and you need to know what they were so you can begin to meet them. It's VERY important.

BTW: If Janet Reno had met your WH's ENs he'd have had an A w/ her! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> THAT'S how important meeting emotional needs are!

~ Marsh

eeeeeeeewwwwwww..........I didn't need that mental picture! lol

LOL

Would Madeline Albright have given you a better mental picture? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

KNOCK IT OFF..........lol
I just ate pizza for lunch....a lot of it.......and I'm not ready for it to come up.....If ya know what I mean. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I couldn't picture her so I had to open another window and google her picture.....Double eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww.

End of threadjack

Jeff

Marsh,
I guess I did answer my own question & I didn't even realize it, thanks for pointing it out. It is getting very tough for me to meet his EN, actually I want to smack him across the head sometimes. I have a story for you...Sunday morning at 4:30 a.m. the baby wakes up & REALLY wants to eat, so I get up & feed the lit'l man & put him back to sleep. I hem & haw & finally decide that I am going to go to my son's room or/ should I say my husband's room & lay with him for a bit. I crawl in bed & he responds with, "what are you doing?", are you kidding me? I ignore him & just lay there; wow how strange was that! Anyhow I asked him to hold me & he said, "why are you pushing me", pushing you, I ask?, it's been 2 months & I don't so much as get a pat on the back...not that I want a pat on the back, but something like that would be REALLY nice. I asked him if he really loved me & he said yes! I told him that he doesn't have to be "in love" with me to tell me he loves me or to even hold me, he can do those things by just loving me. He finally did hold me & I made sure I was the one to break it off after 10 minutes & I gave him a kiss on his cheek, told him that I was asking for the world here! Took my butt back to my own room & laid there for hours. I really can't wait until we can get into our counseling this week, I really need someone else there to help him realize what he is doing to us! I told him that I was sick of being his roommate! We'll see if I get something more. I'll try with the EN, actually I read every article on MB about it, so I know what I have to do, just not sure where I will get my strength from! Thanks again for everything. K

Oh, Karen, I'm so sorry your WH is being such a blockhead. I understand your desire to smack him. I REALLY do.

I'm glad you asked him to hold you. That certainly isn't asking much from him.

What day is your MC appointment? I'm anxious to hear what happens there.

When he complains about you pushing him, remind him that while you know he is depressed and trying to let go of the A, that you need to see some movement from him towards you. Moving back into your bedroom would be a good place to start.

Say it, and then let it go. If he refuses, then keep praying for patience.

Keep making the home as inviting as possible...

( Music on in the background,fix his favorite meals, fun with the baby, smile at him, laugh with him, look him in the eyes and seek compassion and love from your look.)

Do stuff for YOU! My heart goes out to having to care for your baby, run a household, and have this mess to sort through w/o much support from your WH. So please remember to do something every day for YOU!

Standing in your corner.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
MC is scheduled for Wednesday afternoon. I'll report back on Thursday morning. I REALLY can't stand the fact that he thinks that I am being "pushy" when I make such small requests. I did notice this morning that I got a hand on the shoulder as I was given a kiss goodbye, not sure what that was all about...it may seem little, but I'll tell ya, when you don't get ANYTHING at all, something like that is BIG! Yikes! I did print out the EN questionnaire but I wasn't sure how successful it would be for us right now. Since we are in no type of recovery yet, I am concerned that anything he answers to will not be accurate right now. EN to him right now seems like I am being "pushy", so I'm not too sure how to approach things with him. On the other hand, my EN have tripled over the course of this last year and I'm sure that there are many more EN's that I would answer to right now; a year ago...I'm not too sure of how many I really needed to fulfill my life. What do you think about revealing everything that happened during the A? Do you think it is best to let things lie or is it something that you really need to be completely honest with your S about? There are so many questions that I have, probably most of them will not really affect the outcome of this, but some I just REALLY want to know. I'm sure that we will cover some of that in MC, but I was wondering what your opinion was. Ya know...He sat across from me last night at dinner & I looked at him face to face, eye to eye and I just don't know who he is?? He was certainly not the person that I spent the last 10 years of my life with, built a home, planned a family (my other boys are 14 & 18), made oodles of plans with, etc. I often wonder if things didn't "happen for a reason" & this is what was in the cards? Maybe the OW was always going to surface for him & all of the feelings that he had for her 20 years ago and her husband's death was what God intended for. Boy, it really stinks when you start to analyze this crap! Fourteen months later & we are still struggling. Some A's do end marriages & they survive a new marriage, and it seems like they were "meant to be", so how do you really know? I'm sorry I'm throwing so many questions at you today but I feel so comfortable asking you these that I'm hoping that you may have some answers!? I'll talk to you later. K

Hi Karen,



Great! I'll be watching for you.


I don't blame you one bit. Right now, it's ALL about him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That's pretty typical of WS's. Let's hope you have a good MC, who can help him start thinking about you.



Wooo Hooo!!!

Could be he realized how much you need affection after what happened last night. Let's hope so. Maybe you'll get a hug w/ that good bye kiss tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Meeting each other's emotional needs is the key to recovery. He's out of the A and has moved back home. So, he must want to recover your marriage, right? Filling out the EN questionaire could be a very encouraging thing for your WH. It's important that he understands that there is a great deal of hope for the two of you.



I think that he should answer EVERY question you have about the A.

Here's an excellent letter that many BS have printed out w/ their WS's name on it to communicate how important getting your questions answered is...

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)



He's not the same man you married....yet. He's a WH. He's STILL in the fog. Until he gets through w/drawals and starts to get his thinking back on tract, he won't be your DH.



An adultery R was NEVER meant to be! NEVER! EVER! God HATES adultery! He hates D. He wants the two of you to be together! "What God has joined together, let not man put asunder..."

His feelings developed for the A (NOT her) b/c she met his EN's by spending so much time w/ her. Period! There was NOTHING special about her! The truth is that all OP's are lesser quality people than the BS's. They are a step DOWN not up!



Ask me any and all questions you want to...I'll try my best to answer them. And hopefully others will help out when I am unable to.

~ Marsh

I'll be praying for you this afternoon, Karen.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
I MUST tell you that I am so thankful that you have me in your thoughts. I took yesterday off from work & wasn't able to respond to your note, but was so pleased to see that you had put so much time & thought into answering all of my questions. I am very nervous about today's appointment. There are so many things that I want to hash out but will try to contain myself & make sure that I don't scare the counselor or my H for that matter. I want to make sure that he will go back! he/he I reminded him last night of the appt. & he asked again what time it was, he seemed very apprehensive, almost to the point that I expected him to cancel out on me. This morning as I was saying goodbye to him he asked me the last name of the fellow & for the life of me I couldn't remember, again I thought I would get a cancellation from him. He has yet to call me this a.m. to find out the name, since we will be meeting eachother there later. We had plans yesterday to go vote together & he called me early in the day & said that he was going to go over & vote earlier, as to avoid running into "someone"; of course that "someone" was the OW. Her house is for sale right now & I keep praying that she will sell & move away REALLY soon!, it's way too close for comfort in such a small town.
As for Joseph's letter, I will print that out so that my H has some reading material. I usually put things in the bathroom when I think that he should read them...I'll ad that to the selection of tool magazines!
I'm anxious to see if NC comes up in question today, I haven't asked him in a couple of weeks.
I'll write you later. Thanks again. K

Hey Karen,

Makes me happy to hear that he is avoiding the OW and that she IS moving! Good stuff! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just be yourself at the MC, Karen. Don't be afraid of saying what you want, feel or think. Just watch out for LBs.

When your WH opens up...even if he says something painful...thank him telling you. You WANT him to open up to you, so be sure to be respectful and thankful when he does. Easier said then done, I know. But, I have complete trust in YOU! You are a remarkable woman, Karen. VERY strong!

Come here, and vent.

I'll look for your post tomorrow.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
Had to tell you this one last thing before I head out for the MC appt. H calls me a little bit ago, seems he worked from home today so he will be passing right by my office (close enough to a pass by) so I asked him to pick me up...he says "I'll just meet you there". Can you believe that? I had expected that when he was going to be working closer to the area but when he was going to come by here, I couldn't believe it. I said "well that is silly to take 2 vehicles, don't you think", he then responded with "I'll pick you up". Boy, I was on fire! The only thing I can think of is that there still must be contact, why wouldn't you drive with your S to go to a MC appt...??? especially when it is to fix the marriage the two of you share? Please! I just don't understand! But you better bet I'll be asking that question when we travel to the appt. I need help understanding why he says & does these things! There are just some days I think I am just beating a dead horse, he is a pretty weak individual anyhow, maybe this is too much for him!? Talk to you later. K

Karen,

Hmmmm, I wonder about that too. Doesn't make much sense. I hope he'll explain it to you.

Hang in there, Girl!

~ Marsh

Marsh,
OK, I'm back! Didn't even have the nerve to start a "fight" on the way to MC. It's amazing how I have become such a wimp in my old age, anything to avoid a confrontation! Well...MC went "ok". We didn't get too deep, obviously after everything that has happened, an hour & 15 minutes is certainly not enough time. This what we did get out of it...H admitted that the A is what brought us to this point. He seems to be searching for why it happened & more interested in that part of it. MC compared this situation to an alcoholic & when you get those cravings you need to fight them. You also need to fill the void in between, the space that is left after the A is broken & mending has not begun with us. H was a little defensive, but the MC handled him pretty well. Said he doesn't want to waste time & $$ and certainly wants honestly, so if this isn't what we want to do...then don't bother making another appt. H did admit that he was waiting to feel "something" before he acted out, MC told him that he should begin acting out how he would like to feel so that he actions will make his feelings come back. I kept my cool, a little angry at times, no tears though, I really held them back for now. H says that he has a lot of guilt for what he has done and guilt for what he "doesn't" feel right now too! MC gave us some homework, very similar to the EN questionnaire. We are both to do it separate & bring it with us to the next appt., yeap, we made the next appt. The ride back was a little quiet, but we did manage to make some small talk to break some of the ice. All in all, I feel ok about it & will stay as "positive" as I can for right now. MC asked me if I trusted H & I told him a BIG FAT NO!, not a chance! If there is any marriage left this MC is the one to do, understanding that my H takes on a huge roll though. He says the A is over, he was asked that point blank, as well as if NC, both answers were yes! So we'll see how honest he can become after all of the lies. I did say that I thought at times that H came home just for "show" to try to prove to everyone that he was trying to make attempts at the marriage, MC said that I probably feel that way because he does not make any attempts towards me...H didn't respond. I tried to hesitate with my answers hoping that H would answer his first. Sometimes it worked & other times I had to answer. MC seemed to be really focused on H, which is how it should be as far as I am concerned. Thanks again, you are a good friend. K