Hi Karen!

First impression is that it sounds VERY hopeful! Sounds like your MC is good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here's what I liked...



GREAT! It shows he's willing to take responsibilty for what he's done!



Awesomeness!!!

This IS exactly what I had to do too. Having the A was something I NEVER believed I could do. I NEVER wanted to do it it again, so I NEEDED to figure out why I did it.



More AWESOMENESS!!! This MC sounds terrific! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Good! Glad he admitted this. I felt the same things. MC will help him through this.



Wooo Hooo!! When do you go back?



Ooooohhhhh!!! This MC IS GOOD!

He's right. If you aren't feeling loved by your WH, then you'll put most everything he does or says through that "He doesn't love me" filter. And VERY often it comes out wrong. Just b/c we don't feel loved by someone doesn't mean they don't love us.

Anyway, that's my take on what you've told me!

I feel VERY hopeful for you!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

Marsh,
You are GREAT! Thanks for your inspiration. One thing I forgot to mention, maybe you can relate to this...H said that the reason he doesn't show any affection is because he doesn't want to give me false hopes & since he doesn't "feel" like he should right now he refrains from it. MC told him that he already gave "hope" when he came home & said he wanted to work on his marriage, also going to MC shows that as well. So...he should try to show how he would like to feel & then he will get closer. Were you in a similiar mind set? H was pretty talkative last night & a little more attentive. One more thing...it's like H forgets things in life. We spent over $600 on a new mattress for my son's room. We went to the showroom, heard the speal about the different mattress, etc. & ya know the other day he said to me...is that a new mattress? Are you kidding me? What is there a mental block in his brain? Little stupid things like that burn my butt! Where the heck have you been you dingbat? Thanks again. K

Hi Karen!



MC is RIGHT on!

Your H might be afraid of telling you that he doesn't feel romantic towards you, b/c he doesn't want to hurt you anymore. What he fails to understand is that he's already hurt you as much as anybody could hurt another person. By being open and honest you all can work through ALL this. But H&O is KEY! His romantic feelings WILL come back for you as he acts loving toward you and gets through w/drawals. He thought you were hot enough to marry, he'll find those feelings again for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This MC will keep him on tract! God was smiling on you when we directed you to this guy, Karen. You can't believe how many sucky MC's there are out there.


I KNEW that if I could act loving towards my DH I could start feeling loving towards him again. It is a weird thing to have my feelings tell me one thing, and my mind another. It was a real power struggle that went on between my intellect and my feelings. But, I was determined to make my intellect win! My feelings may have been screaming louder, but I knew they'd simmer down and catch up w/ my actions given enough time. And I was right! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



He finally has some hope!!!Hope is VERY powerful!

Woooooo Hooooo!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But, don't be surprised if his mood swings back to depressed again...it is normal. Remember, you are on a rollercoaster. But, the seeds of hope were planted in his mind yesterday. Awesomeness! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



LOL

Yeah, well, when you spend months in a fantasy world, real life events seems to float right by unnoticed.

Your sense of humor will get you through his memory lapses.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
Hi today! I wanted to share my C appt. with you. I spent most of the appt. talking about the MC appt. the day before. My C seems to think that my H was the "true" cause of this A & that it had nothing to do with EN. She thinks that based on the fact that he is so critical of others & seems to find everyone's faults that he must be struggling with his own happiness. He has always been the type of person to think that he is "better" than everyone else, that is why it is always pointing out their faults. Now that he is "one" of those "faulty people" this too is making things very difficult for him. C thinks that the person that I see sitting across from the dinner table is probably the "real" husband, unmasked & exposed for the whole world to see! Maybe the H I married was a fake & now I have the "real" one to deal with. I don't like this one very much at all! My C seems to really like the MC as well & is actually going to refer a couple to him as well. She likes his tactics a lot! H again seemed pretty decent last night. He was left babysitting while I went to my C & the both of them were on the living room floor playing when I returned at 8:30 p.m. It was nice to but also hard sometimes...why doesn't he want to play with me! he/he If this goes on much longer I fear that I will find that I do not want him anymore, I really don't like this fellow right now. Thanks for everything. K

Hi Karen,




Has she met your WH?

There are plenty of critical folks out there who don't have affairs.

If you are spending alot of time w/ someone of the opposite sex, getting your EN's met....you are asking for trouble. And trouble is what your WH got.

I will say this, that the more critical we are of others the more critical we are of ourselves. I have no doubt that your WH is beating himself up about what he's done. None! I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. Folks who project that, "I'm better than you are image," are usually EXTREMELY hard on themselves.

Perhaps, his being tough on himself, coupled w/ spending too much time around the OW was what did him in. If you feel like crap about yourself, you generally will look for something outside yourself to make you feel better...drugs, alcohol, and adultery. Of course these are just temporary fixes, and, as you well know, only makes matters worse.

He felt like crap about himself before the A, and now he feels EVEN worse about himself b/c of it. It's a miserable place to be. I know.



I disagree. Your WH is still in the WS thinking and fog. Of course he looks nothing like what you are used to. He's depressed b/c of w/drawals, b/c he's let himself down, and b/c he's let you down. That's why it's so important that he sees there IS hope for him, and your M. He's in a crappy, dark place right now. He needs to have hope.



Please don't take his not "playing w/ you" to heart, Karen, I know it's hard, but he's not trying to hurt you. He's got alot of issues he's got to work through. Maybe you could use those times to climb down on the floor and play w/ the both of them together? Enjoy the moment w/ them.



I know. And I understand.


Hang in there.

~ Marsh

Marsh,
Thanks for your perspective on my WH. I have a lot to tell you from the other night. My H went up to bed on Sunday night & I couldn't stop myself from going into his room & point blank asking him if he was ever going to want to sleep with me again. He response was I don't know. Well, needless to say that is all he had to say the lights got turned on, by me of course. Why I asked? Have you spoken to her? Yes, was his response. He spoke to her last week prior to our counseling appt. He said that he was dealing with it the best he could. It is very hard for him not to call her. I asked him to commit either way to me or to her & let's be done with this. He said he couldn't right now & he was still trying to get rid of his feelings for her. I began to hit him! Boy, something just comes over you & you go CRAZY! He was ready to leave & go stay with his brother. I told him that he can't just run to his brother's house all of the time, it's time to face this & FIX IT! I asked him if there was one ounce in him that didn't want this M to work...I want to know right now & he said no. He said that this A cannot be compared to an alcoholic, this is feelings & that is a substance. So I'm not sure how successful any counseling is going to be for him. What do I do? I had to take a day off from work yesterday just to "veg" & collect my thoughts. This morning I gave him a hug & told him that I loved him, practically had to force him to give me a hug "with meaning", I also told him that if he could go a month w/out calling her, then he could go two! It comes down to wanting to be with us or her! I'm really losing it! Any words of wisdom? K

Hi Karen. I don't post much anymore. But I have been around a long time. I just read your entire thread and there is one thing that stands out.

Your H is still a WH. The red flag for me was him moving into your son's room. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If your WH is not a serial cheater, imho, he has convinced himself that he is not an adulterer at all. He is with you for the children's sake.

BUT since he is not a cheater, he CAN'T sleep with you. Because he is staying faithful to the OW!

From my own experience, when I discovered my WH 2nd A, this was the giveaway.

This is a reason why solid NC is a MUST. It shows real commitment to your M and to recovery.

And Karen since he is a WH, any signs of affection will continue to be distasteful and unattractive to him.

Have you read about 180's? A BS must stop any sign of begging. Or neediness.

Take care.

Hi Fightingalone-again.
Thanks for taking the time to read my thread & give me your thoughts. This is his first A. I thought he was trying to be faithful to the OW as well. When he left the last time & I confronted her, I think she was very surprised to hear that H & I were sleeping together with our son. So I'm sure that she hit him with that one. I have not heard about the 180's; I tried a search & did not come up with anything. I hate to beg! It isn't me & it makes me feel like I've lost every ounce of what was ME! What more could you suggest for me? I try to tell him that he can hold me, sleep with me, etc. b/c he loves me!, he doesn't have to do it b/c he is "in love" with me. I just don't want to make the wrong move & lose everything that I have tried to recover. Thanks K

He MUST commit to NC! If he's not going to, he might as well leave you now, rather than torture you for months and then end up leaving you anyway.

I'm so sorry to hear that he broke NC. The feelings that the A produce are terribly strong, they make you go loonie. He's got to understand that feelings fade and change. That what he feels for the OW will not always be what he feels for her. He has to understand that what he feels for you right now will not be how he always feels. If he changes his actions, he'll change his feelings.

Can you get him to come here? I'll give you my e-mail address if you like.



Bull crap! He's NOT dealing w/ this the best he can. Too bad it's tough not to call her. Tell him to put on his big boy panties and GROW UP!!! This is total crap!

He'll never get rid of his feelings for her as long as he maintains contact w/ her!!!!



I don't blame you! I want to hit him!



He's lying. There's a big part of him that still wants to keep the feelings from the A. That's why he keeps calling her. If he REALLY, TRULY commits to NC than you'll know that he's fully committed to the M. Until then, he's a cake eater, a fence sitter, a WS.

What phone did he use to call her? Are you checking the phone records?



That's what EVERY WS says. No, it's not an addiction...it's love. *puke* He's just fog babbleing to you. Don't listen to what he says, pay attention to what he does. Have him commit to NC!





You're right! As long as he is still in the A....still having contact, MC is pointless.

The poster above is correct about his not moving back into your bedroom. He's trying to be "faithful" to her. *gag* Adultery is a twisted, effed up place to be.

Karen, you must insist on NC. Have him write her a NC letter, like is suggested by Dr. Harley. And then tell him he must be TOTALLY transparent w/ you. You want to see the phone bills, know where he goes, ect...Tell him to come here.

If he's so sure his A can't be compared to an addiction tell him to come here and explain to ALL of us who have been there, how his A was different than ours!

~ Marsh

Marsh,
Thanks for responding to concerns. I will talk with him tonight about this NC crap! If you would please send me an email, I posted my email address in my profile. Do I demand that he come back to our bed & start there? I feel like if I don't do something pretty quick I'll loose him forever!, I'm not prepared for that & I KNOW that he'll have BIG regrets too! I like your comment about showing the difference between A's; must be the mindset, huh? Thx K

He's got to establish NC. Start there.

He's going have to accept that W/drawals are painful, but he must suffer through them in order to heal himself and your marriage.

It's time he GROWS UP!!!

I thought she was moving. When? How far away?

You've got mail...

~ Marsh

Oh, and he needs to understand what A's are, that what he's going through is what thousands of others have gone through and it is possible to recover your marriage, BUT he has to establish NC!

~ Marsh

Karen, it is from the book called Divorce Busters.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow them around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse. ( I DO NOT agree with this one!. Just DO NOT SHARE the results imho)
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse's whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what they will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show them someone they want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while or never).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient

The 180s are a technique of keeping your boundaries in tact. It requires a lot of patience.

I would also suggest using RBs. Reverse Babble. Orchid is the expert on that. It means that you parrot back what they say with a twist. Confuses the heck out of the foggy WS. It seems to make them think about what is really said <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

fightingalone-again,
Thanks for the insight. I've been pretty good with some of that already, not the begging part though..after this morning's episode. I have left a message with MB to speak with Dr. Harley. I'm going to see if I can make some headway there as well.
Thanks again. K

So I chickened out last night & just kept everything to "small talk". I printed out our notes from yesterday & asked him if he could take some time to read it, he asked me to leave it out for him. I made some notes on it & finally gave him a "plan" & asked him to follow with me. I asked him for 6 months. 6 full months of NC, MC & his heart & soul. May 15th I told him that we could then celebrate our new renewed marriage. I asked him to be strong for all of us & make this work. I guess I'll know more tonight. I'm so tired of all of this crap. K

Hi Karen,

What do you mean you chickened out? What did you want to do, but didn't?

The conversation you had sounded very good.

Did you make the appointment w/ Dr. Harley yet?

BTW: Did your WH tell you what he and OW talked about the other day? Was it a "closure" call?

~ Marsh

Hi Karen. What did you chicken out about?

Karen, you said that you gave him notes from yesterday. What notes? I hope it is NOT about the 180s OR the MB site. That is NOT for a WS.

YOUR plan is for YOU NOT for WS. Becasue if there is still contact and no commitment to recovery. the PLAN will be compromised. He will be able to circumvent the things you do.

There are too many cases of WS using information from MB against the BS.

ANd also, if you come up with a plan for recovery it is YOUR plan not his. HE can and likely WILL Use that as an excuse. THe PLAN for recovery MUST come from the WS.

THEY must do the work. ANd there are key things. IF he says, "I will TRY", BEWARE. THere is a differenece between TRYING and DOING> WHen ppl say they will TRY that is an out. THey can then say they TRIED but it didn't work. If they say they will DO something it shows true commitment.

YOU can ASK him for HIS plan. BUt you cannot give him YOUR plan. You cannot FORCE WH to DO anything. YOu can only change what YOU do. How YOU react to things. WHat are YOUR boundaries? Have you figured those out?

Alright, my plan last night was to talk with him about the NC & demand it from him, that is what I chickened out on! Instead I gave him notes, FA...not the 180's or anything like that. Actually I copied my 1st note at the start of the day & ended with Marsh's note, the one just before you FA. I wanted him to see the comments from other people that have been in his shoes. I added a side note to what I left him & that is where I asked him to commit to my plan. Boundaries?, Yeah, I set them all of the time...not sure what happens though! Dr. Harley's office called me this morning but I was in a mtg. I have to call them back. It's ok that I schedule an appt. w/out knowing if he will commit or not to my "plan", right? I really need Dr. Harley to discuss the NC & withdrawal "stuff" with WH. Marsh, H said that their conversation was about "everyday stuff" & it was left that she was not calling him anymore. He ensured me that the ball is in his court now. He admitted that he went a month w/out talking to her, that's what ticks me off & the reason why I told him that if he could go 1 month, he can go 2 and so on! Ok, thoughts on this one now? Thanks K

Hi Karen,

Which post of mine did you give him? The "Tell him to put on his big boy panties."? LOL Or the one where I was explaining how he probably feels like crap about himself and needs hope?

I think ANYTIME is a good time to call Dr. Harley.



You're absolutely correct about his being able to maintain NC if he WANTED to. I remember at one month wanting very much to break NC. I think I wanted to see if he still had feelings for me. So I could continue fantasizing about the A.

The fix...the feelings...are hard to resist going back for more. But, it's something that he HAS to do. He's just extending his suffering by calling her again.

W/drawals suck. Big time! But, there's no way to get around them.

Karen, What does he say about having called her? Does he say he wishes he hadn't, knows he shouldn't have?

When is the OW moving? And how far away is she moving?

~ Marsh

Yes, it is okay that you have an appt with Steve Harley without sharing that with WH. BEcasue WH is STILL a WH.

THere is also a Jennifer that does counselling as well. But becasue you have a WH, a man might make him more confortable IF and or WHEN WH is ready to commit.

Karen, a word of caution. PLEASE do not share this site with WH. This is to protect YOU so that you can speak freely here. Now, I have no idea how computer savvy your WH is. BUt if you do a search on my name, I DO come up in the search for MB. THat is a compromise of a safe place for you and other BSs.

Thee is one current BS whose WW is using this site in her legal battle for custody etc. It is critical that you do NOT use this. I know how hard it is. I know that I have shown my STBXH stuff. Like NA NA I am NOT the crazy one. It feels like such a lonely battle and you get tired of being BLAMED for things.:(

BUT, I made sure that I took off identifying stuff and nicknames, etc.

IF your WH decides to make a commitment it is important that a PLAN for your R comes form him. YOu can agree or disagree and NEGOTIATE the HOW. But you CANNOT make a DMEAND that he follow your plan. YOu can state your boundaries.

Boundaries are the things that you NEED. They are NOT moveable. And if the boundaries are not met, you MUST have a plan for consequences.

For example. NC is a boundary. SO what WILL you DO if he refuses? Transparency is another boundary. THat means he can be reached 24x7. SO what will you do if he is not willing? THat means he GIVES you ALL his passwords for EVERY email EVERY cell phone EVERY account.

THis shows his determination to rebuild.

So what aobut talking aobut the WHY of the A? HOw will that take place? SOme BS don't want details. But the WS must be prepared to TELL everything is asked. YOU set the requirements for your own peace of mind. BUT it is CRITICAL that WS examines WHAT is broken inside him that ALLOWED him to change his moral values and his principles to make adultery an option. HE must figure that out. Because IF he does not, then it WILL Happen again.

THis is where the IC is needed. And MC. BUT MC is a WASTE of time and money if the WS is not a FWS. Only then is there the right state of mind to WORK at fixing your R.

YOu cannot ask him to go for a month more than the month he already did. THat is YOU being needy and clingy. You cannot TELL him what to do. You can only TELL him what YOU will do. That is STATE your boundaries.