Marsh,
Yeah, I gave him the one about the "big boy panties". I'm sure is LOL as we speak! he/he
I'm printing the one off for today as well...about how you wanted to break NC after a month. I think if he really can relate to someone else who has gone through this, it will be much easier for him to understand. I called back to MB to schedule. They gave me 2 times next week, and by the way the 1st session is with SH. Then you can schedule with him or Laurie. Laurie does most of the afternoon & evening appts. I'll ask my H about both appt. & see which one is better for him. We are already scheduled with MC on Tuesday afternoon. Maybe it's best to try for SH that morning, we might as well get both of them done in one day...what an exhausting day that will be, huh? The OW has her house for sale but the $$ is so high that it will continue to sit for quite a while, that plus the fact that the market is bad right now doesn't help at all. She lives 3 miles from our home right now...way too close for comfort. H didn't say much about how he felt after he called her, if I had to guess he probably felt pretty good about it at the time but I would hope that he felt pretty bad afterwards. Esp b/c she was probably pressuring him into coming back to her, just to add a little more to his plate, he just loves that!, oh, and I love it too! Not! I think I am going to take your suggestion about finding another WH out there to talk to my H. I think he REALLY needs to hear it from someone else, and a guy would be great! Thanks Marsh. K

I am looking for a WH that would be willing to talk with my WH. I think it will take a man to get through to him, to show him that his A is no different than anyone elses & that what he is feeling is completely "normal". He seems to think that his A is different & is struggling with the fact that it is just an A. Anyone interested in taking on the challenge? It's a BIG one I know. Please let me know.
Thanks K

Yup, it sure will be. I can't wait to hear how your appointment goes w/ SH.

But, I'm also interested in hearing what your MC says when he finds out your WH called the OW hours before your appointment and then lied about it.



Yup, he got his fix for the day and is trying to live off of it for as long as he can.



That sucks!

Make sure you tell SH how close she lives.

Let me know if he says anything about what you gave him to read.

~ Marsh

I am looking for a FWH that would be willing to talk with my WH. I think it will take a man to get through to him, to show him that his A is no different than anyone elses & that what he is feeling is completely "normal". He seems to think that his A is different & is struggling with the fact that it is just an A. Anyone interested in taking on the challenge? It's a BIG one I know. Please let me know.
Thanks K

Het Karen,

AmIok just posted about her latest appointment w/ Steve Harley...

Here it is if you want to read it...

Anyway, here's a recap of the SH appt. I'll try to get some decent replies up later.


SH asked for a recap, and WH told him about the IA being cleared and the communication that he'd had with OW after that, and that he'd had absolutely no contact with her since we had talked. He said that he knew that ANY contact at all with her was dangerous and was "crossing the line", and so he would not have anything at all to do with her.

SH said that was exactly what he would have told WH, and he thought it sounds like WH knows that he has a serious vulnerability there. He asked me how I felt about it, and if I believed WH. I said that yes, I believe what he has said about contact right now, but that we've also been to this place before. So I believe that WH currently feels strongly about not having any contact with her whatsoever, but that I believed he felt that way last time, too.

SH said that was understandable, so he talked to WH and said that, as an act of care, he wanted WH to regularly sit down with me and talk about how he was doing in the area of staying away from her, not having contact with her, etc. He wants this to happen on a regular basis, until I decide I don't need it anymore. He asked if WH could do that, and WH said he thought that he could, and that he thought he already was doing that. He asked if I thought that would help. I said yes, but that right now, WH seems to feel like it's punishment, and does it when he gets around to it, and it's awful for him. I told him about the last time, when WH told me about the IA being over, and the contact he'd had with her in that week in-between. I said I was frustrated that he hadn't been talking to me about that all along. That I wanted us to get back to being a team, and right now it is definitely not that way.

WH said he didn't think we'd ever get back to being a team, that I had taken things he had told me in confidence, beyond just the A, and that "at least 9 people at work now know about that" (I sent the letters to 9 people in his chain of command). He kept going, and said that everyone knows more about his business than he does, and he thinks that I tell everyone everything. So when he talks to me now, he censors things to just what he wants the whole world to know.

(ouch)

SH said that we couldn't get into that habit, that we're trying to learn how to build trust and intimacy here, and it wasn't smart to get in the habit of hiding things or keeping secrets, that that wasn't going to help us build trust. That it wasn't an option for the long-term, and that this will be something that we'll have to work on.


Then we talked about our ENQ's. The purpoes, the idea behind them, what they'd be for, etc. SH gave us an assignment for specifically how to share them with each other. He was pretty detailed about that, and it took a while.


He asked us how much time we've been spending together, and it's not much, largely due to WH's schedule. SH said we need to work very hard at maintaining a sense of connectedness when the work schedule is bad, and especially fo the next week, while WH is in California for his training. We both agreed.


So, SH was re-capping our homework -- the ENQ's, and WH regularly sitting me down to update me on his progress to prevent contact with OW, to help me re-build some of my trust in WH. He asked if we had any questions, and I said yeah -- how do **I** start re-building some of WH's trust -- he has his assignment, so what is mine. That I could understand WH's feeling about the lettters, and what did I need to do to start building up my side of things.

SH asked WH what he'd need in order for me to do that. WH said he didn't know, that he was afraid that I'd take up his battle and file a greivance against the IA officer for not informing WH soon enough about the IA being dismissed. Or that I'd contact OW, just to make sure that she stays away from him. Or that I'd get worried about trusting him while he's at this training next week and call his boss and IA and everyone else and tell them they shouldn't have sent him while we're at such a wierd spot, etc. And then he said "we're not here because of the letters, we're here because of what I did." But he was still pretty frustrated and worked up about it.

So SH asked if I do the same thing that he had WH doing -- basically sitting him down on a regular basis and updating him on my plan and progress to not expose his secrets to the world, would that help. And WH said yes, that would probably be a good start. (And now I went and posted it all on a public board.... probably NOT the best start, huh???)

So ... that's where we are right now. We have assignemnts, and we'll kind of have to ease into them, because WH is going to be away at training for the next week, then it's Thanksgiving.

But it is starting to feel better .... a little more hopeful, a little more possible. Things around the house are easy and fun and relaxed. Shallow, except for the calls with SH, but comfortable. Makes it much nicer to come home at night, at least.

And that's about it....

I'll try to catch up more later.

-AmI.

Ami just found your other thread and posted to you on it.

I don't want you to miss it, so here's the link to it...


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3133034

Karen:

Marsh asked me to stop by.

Do you want me as a FWH to reach out with an electronic 2x4? Or do you want me to call him on the phone? Sort of MB's on call?

I will not be available again until Friday. Can you wait til then?

Do you have a list of Questions for me? Just so you know, I followed your sich early, but not as much lately.

Not much more time tonight....

LG.

P.S. Marsh, does this mean I get to wear a stethoscope now?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Marsh,
I'm sitting here on a Thursday morning just absolutely grateful that I have found you & found MB. You are INCREDIBLE! I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of the support you have given me. I had NO ONE to talk to about any of this for a WHOLE year. Noone that I know has ever gone through this & to try to explain it was ridiculous, "let him go, he isn't worth it" is what I heard all of the time! Well ya know what-I don't want to! I want my M back & I want my H back! Regardless of what he has done, the lies he has told, the hurt he has inflicted...he is MINE! Thank you!

LG,
Thanks for stopping by, I really need you! Yes, if you would talk with my H that would be great. He really has no one that he can talk to that can relate to any of this. We just started MC last week & he is trying very hard to resist NC, but has been unsuccessful so far. That is what he really needs the most support for. When you come back on Friday let's hook up. Thanks again. I'll talk to you soon. K

Hi Karen,

I understand exactly how you feel. This place was such a blessing to me. I'm grateful to everyone who helped me and are still helping me here.

It's very easy for other people who haven't experienced A to tell you to chuck your M and your H, but most people who go through an A, don't end their marriage.

How did things go last night w/ WH?

~ Marsh

*LG, LOL @ at the idea of putting an MB next to your name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for coming, and w/ or w/o a stethoscope, you rock!"

Marsh,
Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, in mtgs all day. H never said anything about the reading material that I left for him. He didn't seem to be angry about it, so I assume that he is ok with it. I didn't discuss it with him, sometimes I would rather just avoid any confrontation...when things are "ok", I'm "ok"! That may not always be the best way to be but it certainly works for me a lot lately. On Wed night I did ask him if he had broken NC & he said no, after that I ruined his "somewhat" good mood that he was in...not sure what that was all about, but I was glad that I did ask him. I lost out on the SH appt. for the day that I wanted to originally schedule, so I have to call back today & reschedule. We are still scheduled with our MC on Tuesday next week. Thanks for asking LG to stop by & offer his stethoscope; we might need more than that! he/he
Thanks again. K

Hi Karen,

So, you didn't schedule your appointment w/ SH for Tues.? Please call back and set up a time. You really need his help.


LOL

LG will need to bring along...

2x4's, hammer and big boy panties. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

Hi Marsh,
Called & left my message today, I was too late & missed the other "open" appt. I KNOW I need this help, that's for sure. I did leave more reading material for him this a.m., the quote you made about how you left at a month w/no NC. I'm trying to encourage him & let him know that others have felt the same darn way that he feels right now. Oh well, he has been pretty good the last couple of days, but that's just my rollercoaster of a life! We'll see how the weekend goes. Have a good weekend & I'll talk to you on Monday. Thx K

Hey karen ~

Just stopping by to say hi...sorry I haven't emailed in a while...that account is non-active right now, has been for a while ~ so if you tried emailing me and I didn't respond, this is why...and since my computer also crashed, I don't have your email addy anymore. If you need me you can reach me at marriedforever2006@yahoo.com, but it sounds like you're getting tons of great help here...I'll try keeping up with your sitch as I can...ok?

So glad you're here...:)

~MF

Karen:

I wanted to reread your thread before I responded. And I have had some computer issues as well, that's why Friday was a washout.

I do not have a clue about your H.

He's a WS. Check
He's in the FOG. Check
He's living at home with you now. Check
He's Terrific with your son, although he could do more. Check
He is going to work and taking care of business. Check
He has not emotionally reconnected to you. Check
He makes you crazy enough to beat him up. Check
He calls OW once a month. Check
He isn't very happy about IC/MC. Check.

However:

What does H do for a living? Does he make a good living? How about you?
You state that this is a second M for you both. Circumstances of first Marriages? Why did they end? Yours? His?
What has the relationship between your children from first M and your Husband now? You posted about the 14 year old going out with him once.
How long has this Marriage existed?
When did you start talking about having another child?
How much real discussion did you have about this child?
How was the marital relationship before the auto accident? SF good? Conversation?
He went to be by OW side after the accident, at your urging. You never would have expected this result at that time. But, what did he get there that he wasn't getting before?
Do you have any idea?

So, after rereading your thread, I do not yet know who needs the 2x4 yet.

You have not done a Plan A. And do not even think about 180. UNLESS you have tried a proper Plan A.
What you really know what you want?

You stated in one of your most recent posts that you want your M back and your H. But that is a M that had in it an A. So what needs to change? any ideas?

Your Husband in fence sitting. But he is holding onto your side of the fence, remember that. Give him reasons to climb off the fence.

You went into your H room and asked him point blank "if he was ever going to sleep with you again" ANd for answering you honestly, he gets beat up, and screamed at. SO, You expect a better response next time?

You missed the appointments that you set up with the Harleys. Why?

Nope, Not a good enough excuse.

I would really enjoy having a conversation with you regarding your H and his mindset. But he is straw character right now. I do not know enough about him to tell you what is going on in his head. Whether I would counsel you to keep him or not.

But I know that in your posts I see an awful lot of DJ/LB going on. Some of its venting, and I can get past that.

This is a great Site. And I think Marsh is terrific. Her posts have always made me think, and laugh. Sometimes both! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL. Not to many FWH here. But I can take the heat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Because I did pull my head out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Your Husband still has to. And finding the proper lever is the most difficult part.

WOW Lousygolfer...Just what I was looking for; someone to dive into this one!

Yes he is the WS.
Yes he in the FOG.
Yes he is home. This is his 4th time home over the course of 14 months.
Yes he is "good" with your son, although he could do more, Yes.
Yes he is going to work and taking care of business.
He has not emotionally reconnected to you?...Heck no!
He makes you crazy enough to beat him up...Yeap!
He calls OW once a month. He has only gone a total of a month so far. He folded last month & ended up calling her. He is now 2 weeks NC & he is miserable!, that's the only way I know he is telling me the truth.
He isn't very happy about IC/MC..Yes, I don't think that he is at that point yet, maybe we are being premature about it, but I figured if he was willing to go, what harm could it do!
What does H do for a living? Does he make a good living? He is in construction, plumbing, heating, etc. "Jack of all trades".
How about you? I work for a supermarket chain.
You state that this is a second M for you both. Yes Circumstances of first Marriages? Why did they end? Yours? His? I married at 17, right out of high school. Ended up marrying my best friend, not a H.
What has the relationship between your children from first M and your Husband now? The relationship is GREAT between ALL of us. XH comes over all of the time & we have shared custody for 9 years now, 1/2 & 1/2...no child support! You posted about the 14 year old going out with him once.
How long has this Marriage existed? This M is going to be 3 years in January.
When did you start talking about having another child? We always joked around about it, since he has never had a child. When we married it seemed like the "right" time, neither one of us was getting any younger.
How much real discussion did you have about this child? Probably not as much as we should have, but we certainly tried for over a year & had to resort to fertility...so it wasn't an accident, that's for sure.
How was the marital relationship before the auto accident? Good, I thought. He even says that he was happy! Just thought he could be a little more happier! Yikes! SF good? Conversation? Not only H & W, but very good friends, same interests, etc.

He went to be by OW side after the accident, at your urging. You never would have expected this result at that time. But, what did he get there that he wasn't getting before? I "think" he got to help someone! I never really needed his help. I have always been very independent, as is she, but since the accident I'm sure she was very lonely & he saw an opportunity to help an old friend.

You have not done a Plan A. And do not even think about 180. UNLESS you have tried a proper Plan A.
What you really know what you want? I TRY very hard to do plan A, but after 14 months of this I just have become very weak. He has let me down continuously & I just get so tired of it. I feel so alone, so neglected!

You stated in one of your most recent posts that you want your M back and your H. But that is a M that had in it an A. So what needs to change? any ideas? I know that I need to be more affectionate, that is certainly something that has come out. I also need to pay more attention to him, that is how I feel I lost him.

The biggest problem that I see with him right now is he needs to talk to someone who has been there. Someone who has gone through withdrawals & what they entail. AND most important he needs to understand that his A is no different than anyone else's. That is where I think he falls short. I think he feels that this all happened for a "reason" & it was fate!

Can you help? Thanks so much. K

MF
Thanks for the new email address. I actually did try once, but figured you were tied up with your own "stuff". Thanks for checking in. Yes, I am getting lots of support, Marsh has helped me out tremendously & now LG has dove into these mucky waters with me. Thanks again, I'll keep in contact.
K

Hi Karen!

Have you called to schedule an appointment w/ SH, yet?

How'd the weekend go?

~ Marsh

Hi Marsh,
I'm guilty of not calling back to reschedule, not b/c I don't want it, I'm just short on $$ this month & with Christmas coming up I thought it best to just stick with MC for now. I'm not sure if we are premature anyhow with MC anyhow, since he isn't in a serious mode of NC, I'm not sure if I would be wasting our $$ with SH. That is exactly what the MC said to us about wasting our $$, even with him! I'm going to sit for right now & ride this out a bit. I guess I really need to focus more on Plan A & try very hard at making that work. That is my plan right now. The weekend actually went ok. I packed up the baby on Sunday morning & H asked where we were going & I said breakfast, he asked if he could go with us. Things are pretty quiet, but I'm hopeful that he is still in NC, since he is so miserable. Thanks for checking in. I'll be back to you after MC tomorrow. thx K

Karen:

You have been married to this guy for 3 years. How long was the Relationship before that?

You ended up marrying your best friend first, not a Husband? Please explain.

Marital Relationship wasn't great before the auto accident?
What was bad for you? Want was good for you?
What was bad for Him? What was good for Him?

You say you are independent, and OW used to be, but lost her H. Please elaborate on this.

Ok. That was a start. More Questions, yes. But more info to start addressing the problems.

You note that you have tried Plan A. When did you find out about Plan A? When you registered here, or before? Have you really done a Plan A?

Because you note that you feel you need to be more affectionate. Because when you went to his room after the 4:30 AM baby feeding, he was shocked.

What I would like you to do is have a system to have him not call OW anymore.

Here's how. Ask him to call you when he feels that he needs to call OW. AND he has to point this out to you when you answer. (That he called you instead of OW, I mean!)

And make a promise to yourself, And let him know this promise as well: "Anything that you say to me during these phone calls will be met with compassion and understanding on your part, with no Love Busters (LB) and or Disrespectful Judgements (DJ)."

Why? Because sometime, someplace, he needs to feel that he is safe to tell you something. Even if it makes you want to rip his throat out.

And after you get a call like that, and you listen, and ask for validations/clarifications as noted on another thread here, you can post your conversaton here and ask for advice as to how to respond. Does this sound good to you?

Sometimes, it is easier to say something over the phone that you can not say in person. And once you are comfortable with him talking on the phone then you can move to in person to phone talking.

I have an agreement that I never had with my Wife now. When she calls, I answer. No matter what. I am self-employed, and have meetings that I do not let phone calls interrupt. She does have access to my schedule and will not call if she knows I have an appointment. But, if for some real reason she needs to talk to me, she will call twice in a row, and I will answer. No questions asked. It has made a world of difference to my W.

You ask me to talk to your H. You need him to get here to have me do that.

But I wanted to ask about this:



The reason it happened is because he got inside the head of OW and He let her get inside his. It was not fate. You need to shoehorn her out and replace yourself in that brain. And Affection/Attention/Admiration is what makes that happen.

And, as a warning, if you get your H to agree to the above phone calls, He may call you and tell you the most outrageous thing the first time. It will be a test. Please pass it. Because if you don't, then there will be no second call. And you want the second call, and then the third...

And we need to talk about the relationship with ExH and how that could threaten your current H. How many times have you compared ExH to H?

And do not worry about Christmas presents, Spend the money on the Harleys. A stable environment for your children will be much more valuable then a Tickle Me Elmo doll in three years.