Thank you, MEDC. The same goes for you is the point that I am making.



This is not a FACT. This is your OPINIION..unless you have spoken to ALL HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS..unless you are not including EMOTIONAL HEALTH as being as crucial in a person's life as PHYSICAL HEALTH....

I've also made it very clear why I'm RUNNING on this...

I do not take this subject lightly..

My opinion..my choice...

Okay Mimi, you win... you're right I have not spoken to all healthcare providers... that was a stupid comment on your part! Any doctor... ANY doctor that would suggest that unsafe sex is okay or worth the risk is an a-hole. Your position has no merit... so you resort to the ridiculous arguments of a weak position. I am so happy that your situation worked out and that your H did not pass on an STD to you...your suggesting that to any other person by talking about it well it worked for you is shameful. But you obviously have your views... even though are without any merit.
You're right... your choice... hmmm... choice...just like it was your H's choice to go screw someone else. Neither is right and both should be avoided. Wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were now suffering from cervical cancer due to your choice. I think not. But that is just my opinion.
Bye Mimi.

MEDC:

I now realize that you and I don't speak the same emotional language so I won't talk to you about this anymore.

I think that would be appropiate and just fine with me.

I don't call people here or anywhere else STUPID or A'HOLES.

You lost me when you began speaking to me that way.

You just don't get it..what I'm trying to say. "SOMETIMES IN THIS LIFE, YOU JUST DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO"..An old, old lady told me that one time. I believe her now !

I don't think you will get it and that's alright.

I hope you are HAPPIER than it sounds like that you are.

I really, really do pray for the best for you.

My H..who, YES, did SCREW another woman, is a wonderful, sweet man now that he is no longer a WH. Thankfully, he speaks my SAME EMOTIONAL LANGUAGE....That's all that matters to me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,

I support what you are trying to say. I do agree with MEDC that it obviously isn't the safest choice but it is an individual choice and as adults we are all aware of the risk.

I too, chose to continue SF with my FWH. This was his biggest EN and one I had not been fulfilling pre-A. The PA had already been going on for several months before I found out it wasn't just an EA. I felt that I had already been exposed for all of those months and I had already had an STD screen done so I CHOSE to continue. I also discussed this with Steve Harley during our sessions and he agreed that as long as it was something I wanted to do then there wasn't any reason to stop.

Like you Mimi, I am almost certain my M would not be in recovery now if I had not have continued SF. Within the first few weeks of separation I initiated SF when my FWH was the coldest towards me, he later said that was the turning point in his feelings towards me. That was the point he started spending time with me again.

If I had it to do over I would not make a different decision. Now maybe I can say that b/c so far I am STD free, who knows, I took a risk and it paid off. That might not be the case for everyone and I wouldn't necessarily advise anyone to do the same thing I did. Again, it is everyone's choice but I don't feel that anyone else's opinion needs to be shoved down a BS's throat either.

MEDC, have you asked everyone you've ever slept with for an up to date STD screen before you sleep with them? I'm just curious how you handle this with new relationships.

DAZE:

Thanks so much for sharing on this thread. You explained this very well.

My situation was like yours..SF being a major need..me not meeting the need pre-A....

An "itty-bitty" part of me was beginning to feel like an oddball about this...

I'm so happy to learn that your marriage is well into RECOVERY!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

yes I have. I am 43 and up until I was 32 I had 1 sexual partner in my life. After that, I have insisted on testing for anyone on that I have been intimate with.

It's funny you say this since I was thinking YOU were the sad one.... the one who feels that if she didn't have SF with her H while he was screwing another woman that she couldn't keep him. Mimi.. that is very sad and you have things to offer that wouldn't put your life in danger. But as you said, we do not speak the same "emotional" language. Common sense and intellect need some place in decision making too... not just emotion.

You chose to engage me in this discussion Mimi... I did not seek you out. I did not call you an A-hole.... but I will reserve the right to call a spade a spade. And for the record, any health care provider that advocates what you support is committing malpractice... and that is also not open to debate... that is a fact and it doesn't matter if it is a mental health provider or a medical provider... it would constitute malpractice.

Well alrighty then, MEDC...

Just letting you know that I read your response...

I'm praying that you can continue to lead a life where you NEVER put your life in danger..if that's the way you want to live...and you never do anything stupid...and you are always logical...and you always do the right thing..OH MY...

Yep..we are not the same...

Mimi, sitting here wondering what I can do to have some FUN tonight....

You are quite good at manipulation Mimi. I hope you do have some fun tonight... sounds like you need it... along with some counseling.

I know. I know. I need to let this go...

But I just had to let you know, MEDC, that I smiled when I read your response.

You think that I need counseling?

How could you possibly think that you could REALLY KNOW ME from our brief discussion here on this issue?

Been there, done that, for years... in receiving the PSYCHOTHERAPY... Personal and marital coaching more recently with Steve Harley...

You are probably thinking I need some more..so I know..I know..I need to stop my discussion with you...


Like I said before..OH MY....


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Something like 80% of marriages are at one point confronted with the issue of infidelity. The next logical conclusion is that ALL married couples should be advised to throw away their birth control pills and even if unable to conceive (menapause, surgical sterilization) utilize condoms and a dental dam everytime they have sexual relations with their spouse.

Further, if your spouse is wayward...don't allow them to touch you or the children. They could have something on their hands. Don't kiss them, they may have just had oral sex.

Also be careful and have your partner tested everytime they return from a business trip especially oversees. If they go downtown for the night or to a bachelor party...don't touch them until they are tested.

Like Mimi said. It's a risk analysis. It's certainly helpful to bring the subject to the forefront. I really didn't even consider testing. I also had been "exposed" without knowledge beforehand anyway...but didn't care. Mrs. W wasn't out trolling male prostitutes or utilizing intravenous drugs. Neither OM nor us were in high risk groups. Plus, as stated, we and they always wore condoms which did insulate us from the most serious of the STD's ...HIV.

I also certainly took WAY more risks sexually in my 20's than I ever took having SF with my wife. SF in Plan A helped me break up the affair and helped us recover. It wasn't the safest thing I could have done but it certainly wasn't the stupidest/unsafest thing I've ever done.

There are some here that are "choosing" this all the time. They are not intellectually inferior to you MEDC. It MAY be a mistake that they'll pay for. It IS important that they weigh the risks and it IS an important issue to bring up consistently to the top of the boards lest it be missed or overlooked.

"malpractice" - ha, good luck suing for that

A decent example, WH has affair with BW's best friend that is also married. Both couples have been married 20 years and no other infidelity is suspected (the couples both KNOW each other intimately and feel pretty secure about this). BW "should" insist on testing, however, her risk of death or serious illness from the anti-depressants she's taking likely outweigh her risk from STD's in this situation. Insisting on a condom may be advisable but abstaining totally in Plan A awaiting test results which WH drags his feet on taking may be way riskier to the marriage than just having SF. I am not a medical professional and I can't assess the risk. I can only give my unprofessional marriage building experience herein on a situation like this. If you want to address it everytime that's your choice.

In conclusion, I agree with Mimi, who also agrees with MEDC...just not to the extent of criticizing people's intelligence. Post how you like. I wouldn't change you for the world...when you are on my side, you're simply wonderful to have around (we will agree again...we've just been on a roll lately disagreeing)...I just think the way you express your opinions so all-emcompassing, abruptly and defensively is somewhat flawed to me. I am a lot more black and white than I used to be...just not about peoples sex lives. Further, I seen this issue raised many times without such rancor...perhaps many will fully respect your opinions if you give it AND resist insulting them at the same time.

To error IS human, not stupidity.

Mr. Wondering

Definitely words to live by. This has been the crux of many disputes on more threads than I can count on MB.

"To error IS human, not stupidity."

To err and risk your life unnecessarily is stupid... just like it is stupid for people to ride without a seatbelt, to put infants in the front seat of a car, to have unprotected with multiple partners...etc....

And as far as the malpractice claim... it does happen now. I know you are an attorney and will not suggest that I have any legal knowledge that could compare to yours... but once the CDC, AMA and NIH offered guidelines for talking to adults about high risk sexual activity and documenting those conversations in the patients chart... it is a matter of malpractice.

And how many situations are like the "clean" affair you described? I would think very few. When there is one mouse seen... rest assured there are others hiding behind the wall.

Thanks for the input on my opinions and the way they are expressed. I am true to my beliefs (and how I express them) and it doesn't matter where I fall in terms of those that agree or disagree with me. There are some things that are just common sense and this is one of them (IMO).

I would tell anyone that chooses to start smoking, riding a motorcycle w/o a helmet, drinking and driving etc that their behaviors are stupid. It's the beauty of being direct... people know where they stand! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We had some discussions recently where you and a few others were very quick to point out where I was wrong and how my opinion lacked moral footing and forethought. Yes, we have disagreed a bit lately... and most likely will do so again... but I respect your opinion Mr. W... even when you are wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> lol.

Owl,

Notice, however, that I accepted, acknowledged and appreciated his RIGHT to post anyway he likes.

Besides some people (like waywards) need insulting. Then we all can play good cop/bad cop and engage them.

Confrontation is a valuable tool here.

Remember:

1. Intimacy
2. Conflict
3. Withdraw

A wayward posting herein "in conflict", is much more engaged and progressing than one withdrawn from any relationship with us. The overriding premise is that WE are good people that all have good intentions for the waywards and betrayed spouse alike...despite what we say sometimes to incite a reaction. We stoke them to THINK and they end up sticking around and reading MUCH more than they otherwise would have. Even if it's just to support their ridiculous notions, premises and arguments...they engage.

MEDC, despite my modest complaint, HAS gotten under my skin and caused me to think about issues much harder than I otherwise would have. Heated debate has it's place and I appreciate it. Our last dispute about Father's Rights and the paternity presumption was very worthwhile and respectful for the most part.

Mr. Wondering

Point well taken.

“The SF that I had with my WH ABSOLUTELY HAD BENEFIT!!!! That's a FACT!!! “

I have no doubt of that Mimi. It worked, and I am happy for you that it did.


“I say DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IN THIS WORLD. I've done things now that I used to say that I would NEVER do, trying to be so CORRECT, so RIGHT, so LOGICAL...

I don't believe in that anymore...”

Well, see, you won this particular game of Russian roulette.

But I truly wonder what you would be writing today if you were dying of AIDS or cervical cancer now.

I have a strong feeling you would be saying the risk was not worth it after all.

This post of yours sounds scarily like WS logic to me, in fact.


With prayers,

Aphelion:

I appreciate you posting to me about this.

You say:



I can only say what it is like for me TODAY..not what could have been or what I should not have done.

Today I so much treasure my life with my H that I most definitely have to say that IT WAS WORTH IT.

So why wonder what it would have been like IF I was dying of CERVICAL CANCER or AIDS?

Mr. Wondering has it right. Maybe this is a justification or a rationalization. Who knows? I don't really care. But, I did do a RISK ASSESSMENT. Sure there was a chance of me contracting a disease. I used protection. I got checked out by my doctor AFTER learning that my H had been having an A for years. There were other circumstances that led me to know that the odds were that I was SAFE.

I feel so PASSIONATELY about this because that EXPERIENCE was soo incredible for me.

My H was acting as if he HATED me most of the time but he remained so MAGICALLY and WONDERFULLY PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED to me. It was NOT just a BOOTY CALL. Those times with him helped me to SURVIVE through UTTER ******...when I was FEELING AS IF I WAS DYING OF CERVICAL CANCER... I wanted to DIE...I was hardly eating or sleeping. Gosh, I hate to remember those times.

I feel like I really know myself. I'm very introspective. I've had all kinds of therapy with very REPUTABLE therapists. I know lots and lots about this from a professional point of view.

I continue to ASSERT THAT THE RISK WAS WORTH IT FOR ME. It he has led me to this WONDERFUL LIFE that I am living now. Because of my Christian beliefs, I am always ready to die.No biggy. If it were to happen today, I would be thankful for having had these past 3 WONDERFUL years with my H. The experiences that we have shared over these years have been unimaginable.. to include THE GRAND CANYON, NIAGARA FALLS, A MARIAH CAREY CONCERT..In fact, I told him that I've done it all, I'm ready to die..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MARIAH CAREY???

Up there with the Grand Canyon and Niagara Falls???

Equating her with actual WORLD wonders???

Now I have to question your sanity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mr. W

Oh Mr. W, my love, you have just ERRED in the WORST way...NOBODY but NOBODY talks smack about Mimi's beloved MARIAH...Honey, have you learned NOTHING in the time that we've been on MB??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mimi...Please accept my deepest and most sincere appologies for Mr. W's inane comment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You have my word that I'll give him a smack in your honor just as soon as he gets home tonight...OH LORDY MR. W YOU'VE DONE IT NOW!!! [smacks forehead] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

To err is human...

and

Stupid

W