She took a 50B out on me on Monday, so I took one out on her. I talked with my lawyer and now I guess I have to accept the fact she will not come back to me. She totally involved with this loser and doesn't look like she is turning back. Any ideas???

I have tried to contact the OM's W but haven't been able to talk to her. I was told she would not let him come back under no circumstances because he has cheated on her numerous times.

I'm sorry, HB, I'm not familiar w/the term 50B. What is that? And why did you take one out on her? Did something cause her to do this?

Ok, I'll be quiet about the OM's W. Apparently that is a dead issue. That's ok. I worked on bringing H home w/o the OW's H.

I would like to know more about this 50B though. Could you explain in more detail how it led up to that point? What exactly is it & how will it help her?

Might I also add that I read your post over on GQII. I think you're going to find conflicting opinions between me & others over there. For instance, you were last advised that your W is your enemy. I say she is not. She is still your W & your W is NOT your enemy. To "put it in religious terms" as the other poster said, Satan is your enemy, not your W. Yes, this is a spiritual battle & you have to treat it as such.

I am going to refer you to a site called Restore Ministries . In this link you will find a booklet that you can print out that will help you stand up for your M in a spiritual way. That, coupled w/the MB principles of Plan A & Plan B, IMO, give you a better chance of gaining back your M & your W returning to normalcy. She is lost right now. She is caught in a web of deceit & is having a lot of trouble untangling herself from it. In the process she has had to try to find new avenues to explore to try to get out of this tangled mess, but she can't b/c the only way that she can get out of it is to go back the way she came. That's where God steps in. He can help w/that, but it will take a lot of strength & patience on your part to wait on HIs timing.

Take a look at the pdf file & try to line up things that go along w/the Plan A & Plan B principles. If you have any questions, just ask (as I used it also in conjunction w/MB principles & my H came home a repentant man) & I can try to help as best I can.

I'm also going to see if a long-time MBer, who helped me throughout my journey, will come back to check your thread out to see if he can help you too.

{{{HB}}} Hang in there. God never abandons us in our time of need. Please try to remember that.

Aloha HB,

I have not been on MB for a few months, but Standing asked me to come here and see if I could help out. How are you doing?

Standing was been giving you some good advice. Regarding the other forum you are on, I agree, your W is not the enemy. Another poster on MB, Orchid, likes to separate the W from the WW. Almost treat them as two different people. You will see glimpses for your W and probably a lot of your WW. When your W shows up, remind her of how nice it is. When the WW shows up, make sure the boundries are in place and she is lovingly reminded of your M and as much as possible, practice the MB principles.

One of the first things I did was to purchase some books.

Surviving an Affair (Willard Harley)
Torn Asunder (Dave Carder)
His Needs Her Needs (Willard Harley)
Not Just friends (Shirley Glass)
and Power of a Praying Husband (Stormie Omartian)

The first two and the fourth talk about understanding the causes and dynamics of an A.

The first and the third (yes some books are multi-purpose) will help change the environment that contributed to the situation.

And the fifth, a powerful tool that might help in changing the spiritual environment that is the most dangerous. Look at the prayers in the book and if you agree with them pray them for your WW. Part of the key is that you do need to agree with them. Just saying them won't help at all. Prayer has to come from the heart, they don't have to be original.

One other prayer that used was to pray a hedge of thorns around my W and to ask God to have OM reveal his true nature. Basically to have OM shoot himself in the foot and help in destroying the A. Which he ennded up doing. MY W's OM ended up telling my W that it was his dream to go to the Playboy Mansion, and that he would look down women's shirts when he played racquetball with them. He even made a comment about the way my W dressed and told her that she should dress a little "younger". Among other things. After a while my W started to figure it out.

Well I have to go. I hope that helps a little. Just keep in mind that things won't happen over night and to keep the little victories in the front of your mind.

A hui ho.

Steadfast

Thanks for the book suggestions. I have Surviving an Affair & Power of a Praying Husband. I had His Needs Her Needs but W gave it to OM. I do pray the hedge of Thorns everyday and pray almost without ceasing.

Today we had court, both of us dropped the restraining orders we had against each other(long story)and walked out of the courtroom together. I walked her to her car and she hugged me and said she was so sorry. I didn't hug back at first and said "your not sorry until you repent". Then God spoke to me and said hug your wife and pray with her. I did that and we embraced for about 2 minutes while I prayed. I asked God to keep his hand on his marriage and that nothing was unforgiveable. I also said That I love her but God loves her more and wants her to come back to him. After the prayer we looked at each other in the eyes and I embraced her again and gave her a simple kiss on the cheek. It was a great heartfelt moment for me. I don't know if she was looking at it as closure to our marriage or whether she is fighting feelings. Either way I let her know that I have not gave up on her and nither has God. I have thanked God for that moment several times since then and I know he has his hand in this and he already has a plan and knows the outcome. I just have to fully trust him to get it done but that is so hard when i am fighting with the my flesh.

HB,

I would get another copy of HNHN and keep it for yourself. Get two if you intend to give one to your WW or at least write your name in it. You may find that you won't have much luck trying to educate your WW about A's. Sometimes good friends can, but when the fog is thick it's hard.

One thing real important is that you need to make sure you are safe for her to talk to. I say that because her interpretation if your response to her apology was "you're not sorry until you repent". She could interpret it as you saying; "you're a liar!". She'll start to get shy about telling you anything. And you don't want that at all. You want to be the one she can tell any too. Even if it's about the OM. I know that's hard but if you chop her off at the knees when she starts to break through the fog, she's going to be afraid to stick her head out of it.

Anytime she lets you hug her or touch her is a bit of a victory. Make sure the touches don't always lead to sex. Has she taken the EN Questionaire yet? Does she know what your needs are?

Have you read about Plan A? Are you doing it? Has the A been exposed to anyone yet (or did I miss that in a previous post?). Sorry I haven't had a lot of time to go through all of your posts.

Before I forget, make sure you read the very first prayer in the POAPH. It's actually the most important one.

Be patient, I doubt that your M got the way it was in one day. Likewise, it will take a while to be restored. You've got God and time on your side.

Oh, last thing for tonight, don't read anything into all of her actions. One, it will drive you nutz and the second, it starts to set expectations based on faulty information. Expectations set without solid inforamtion will discourage you and just like Peter, you'll be looking at the waves instead of keeping your eyes on God.

Later'z.

S&C

No the hug didn't lead to any type of sexual activity. But it was the last thing she has to remember about me since then. I have not contacted her. Nor do I plan to. I only hope the hug she gave me was not her way of closure to this. I know God is able but she has to be willing. Although God can make it tough on her she is pretty thick skinned and stubborn. But with GOd all things are possible Matt 19:26.

As far as plan A I tried that and got no response whatsoever or maybe I just didn't do it right. I don't know my emotions and feelings and my brain run constantly.

I am trying not to read into anything but it is hard not to because I have tried everything and when I see something like this hug and tears, my mind says she is turning around. Fixing my eyes on God is what I am focusing on now with the help of the link from your friend Standing"restore ministries" Thanks for that. Later and keep praying!

Aloha, S&C! Thank you so much for coming here as promised. I knew you could help HB in a way that I just can't, you two being the same sex & all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

HB, Have you read the link in S&C's signature yet? If not, take a look & you'll see the glory of God shine through in his story. His story is what gave me hope in my journey & S&C played a great role in keeping my eyes focused on God & helping me not sink in the water like Peter. Please listen to him. He knows what he's talking about. I know you know that, but just wanted to emphasize it.

Tomorrow I plan on going through your latest posts to see if I can add anything. I saw some things at a glance, but it's late here & LB (my H) needs nursed b/c he had oral surgery today (5 teeth pulled - ugh!). He's not a happy camper this evening. So, I'll take a closer look tomorrow evening & give you my thoughts. Keep your head high, HB, I think you're doing great so far!!

I had no contact at all with her or my daughter yesterday. I was hoping that my daughter would call but she didn't. I figure since OM had his kids my W choose to let them all be together since that is her plan right now. But it is not God's plan, she just don't know that yet.

Aloha HB,


I see that d-day was in Aug. Don't know when you found MB, but usually 2-3 months of plan A isn't enough. Six months or so is common. Some are shorter some are longer depends on you and the circumstance. Make sure you understand what plan A is for and how to use it and what plan B is for and how to use it.

And keep in mind that you can't plan A very well if you are not in contact. I asked about exposure and the EN Questioniare has any of that been done yet?


That's normal. Again all part of the healing process.



I whole heartedly agree. I would like to add though, it's important that you figure out what lead to the situation in your M that brought you W to the place she is at. A's should force the BS's to take a good look at themselves and do a reality check. A's are a symptom to a larger problem, Deal with the problem and the symptom tends to go away.

Usually, that means the BS making radical changes (part of Plan A) and standing up and fighting for the M. Shows the WS how imortant they are to the BS.

Got'z to go.

Blessings to you.

S&C

[quote]And keep in mind that you can't plan A very well if you are not in contact. I asked about exposure and the EN Questioniare has any of that been done yet?



It is very exposed to ALL. She will not do the questioniare.





[quote]I whole heartedly agree. I would like to add though, it's important that you figure out what lead to the situation in your M that brought you W to the place she is at. A's should force the BS's to take a good look at themselves and do a reality check. A's are a symptom to a larger problem, Deal with the problem and the symptom tends to go away.

Usually, that means the BS making radical changes (part of Plan A) and standing up and fighting for the M. Shows the WS how imortant they are to the BS.





This is where I am right now. Trying to improve myself in God's eyes. I am fixing my eyes on Jesus. And as you can see I am learning how to use this qoute stuff to.

Just read it and it is inspirational. Thanks S&C and Standing


Just keeping my head above water right now. But like Peter I will fix my eyes on Jesus and not sink but believe.

I also tried reading through Plan A again but I don't seem to get it. Is there an outline or something a little easier to follow. I am reading the book from Restore Ministries right now and it is helpful in building faith.

I would be cautious of statements like this, like S&C said. She might interpret them wrong. If you would like to pray w/her, I would suggest getting her permission to do that first or just going home & praying for her by yourself. Remember, the W is sanctified through her H.



One thing that used to help me was recognizing each little victory. Be prepared though b/c you will probably see what you think is defeat & little victory before your eyes for a while. Just know that God IS working behind the scenes. Just b/c you can’t physically see it sometimes doesn’t mean He’s not working. If I would have a conversation w/H & at the end of the conversation things seemed hopeless, I would say (after H left), “Get thee behind me, Satan!” That usually worked well. I realized that I was fighting a spiritual war & who always wins those in the end? God, of course!!



You’re going to have to guess what her EN’s are right now based on things she may have said in the past. Sit down w/the EN questionnaire & do the best you can, thinking of your conversations, any comments that she used to make, that sort of thing. It could be a baseline for you to start.



Plan A (hope this helps):

It is used to separate the OM & your W. You meet your W’s top 5 EN’s & avoid LB’s. What we have to do first is try to get that EN questionnaire filled out. I did it for my H while we were separated. I guessed since he wouldn’t fill it out & I started implementing those things. A big thing that helped was asking God to show me where I had failed in my M. He opened my eyes so wide it hurt, but I needed to see it. So I thanked God for His unveiling & I got to work. You say you’re working on yourself. What exactly are you working on?

God reminded me of that after I said it. He then told me to hug her back and pray with her. I am learning to act 1st in the spirit and not in the flesh.


I will start using statement. I have to let God train me to not get caught up in every circumstance because defeat is still near until God is finished workinh her over. I know he is working even though I can't see it, that is what Faith is.

With that link you sent me to RestoreMinistries has really helped me with that. Seeing my faults and where God wanted me to be instead of where I was. Now I have my eyes fixed on Jesus and will not look away at the storm.

I talked to her on the phone last night for the 1st time since the hug Monday. I told her I was committed to our marriage and working on myself right now. I thanked her for what she is doing because if she hadn't I would not have seen what God is wanting to do with me. She said "what". I said yes God has showed me that I wasn't the spiritual leader I should have been, I wans't the Godly man, Godly Husband, Godly Father that he commanded me to be. I wasn't the head of the house and I didn't love her as I should, caress her as much as I should, listen to her as much as I should ETC.. I told her I have stepped out of the boat like Peter did and trusting Jesus in all things and my life and my marriage. I said God will not quit on our marriage because he wants it to work out for his glory. She said but your family doesn't want me back with you. I told her she shouldn't worry about that because we aren't married to them but to each other and God has showed me how to handle that to by showing them that I am committed to my wife and if they don't accept her then they don't accept me. That I left them to cleave with her. She then said "well at some point you will have to open your eyes" and I said not we both have to open our eyes to the distruction we are causing in each others lives and our family. I just felt as if God was speaking through me to let her know this is my stand that I am taking with God and letting God have full control. What do you think about that conversation. I probably said more than that but that is all i remember right now and like I said God was speaking through me so I was just listening.

HB,

Conversation you had w/her wasn't too bad. One thing I'd like you to remember is that any God-talk to her right now will fall on deaf ears -- so try to keep that out of the conversation. You have already planted the seed - let it have time to grow. God can do the rest.

The apologies were good. Did you actually apologize to her for not being the H that you were meant to be? I know you told her that's what you were shown, but did you actually say I'm sorry? That's really all you had to do was apologize for that & tell her you're working on improving yourself. Now, after that, when you see each other again, she will take notice that you meant what you said b/c she'll see the changes herself & start to believe you.

What might help, don't know if you'd agree or if S&C would agree, but what I did was give my H the EN questionnaire & asked him to fill it out for me so I knew what I was lacking & how we got to this point. He obliged for me. As long as I didn't say anything about reconciliation b/c his heart wasn't there right then, he did it for me. I don't know if your W would be willing to do that or not. Only you know her best. If she says no, then there's not much you can do except guess right now.

Reminding her of the "destruction" she's caused would probably be a LB at this point, so if you can, try not to point out her flaws or bring up her behavior to her. She is seeing this from a different set of eyes than you are right now. Right now she probably feels very justified in having this A (even though you & I know differently) but she just can't see that right now. Of course she's going to think YOU'RE the one that's blind, not her. She is, we both know that. But what we're doing is trying to see it from her angle a little bit so we can see her as a lost child of God rather than the woman who's making your life a living he##.

Yes I apoligized. And I told her I was working on myself right now.

I didn't reminder her of the destruction she is causing. I said the destruction that WE were causing. I have been trying very hard not to be critical with her. Because that does no good. I am trying to show her what she will be missing because of the person I am now. I am totally commited to her.

One thing i did find out earlier was that after I told her all of that the OM was over at her house last night. Don't know how long or anything but my mother-in-law called to tell me she seen his car over there when she got off work at 8PM. That was a downer but my head is still high and trusting God.

When you say WE, you include HER. This is how she perceives it. We includes her. Meaning you & her. This was critical. It implies, or downright states, that she is causing destruction, no matter if you include yourself in the equation or not. This is what SHE hears. The focus here is on things YOU did or are doing. So let's keep it there. In your conversations w/her, concentrate on *I* statements, not *we* statements. She doesn't want to hear "we" right now. In her mind, she thinks you & she are seperate entities. Her mind isn't where yours is right now. So any mention of "we" just pushes her farther away, I'm afraid.


Good! Keep up the good work!


Keep that head high HB! Good work! Don't keep your eyes on the circumstances around you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info I will keep that in mind. I really think I am not doing enough to show her my love for her is unconditional but the guy I have been talking to says staying away and treating her in a Christlike manner when I do see her is the best thing right now. He as been on both sides and has given me some great advice and well and my "new fellow MB's". But the best advice I have been getting is from the Word of Truth. Psalm 27:14

HB,

One of Dr. Harley's principles is the principle of time. Shoot for 15 hours per week together. You won't acoomplish this right away, but it's something to shoot for.

While I wouldn't do things that would make you appear needy, I would not avoid time with her I would lean at spending as much time together as possible (again without seeming needy).

When you are together, do things that you used to do for her when you were dating. Do it really quick, in commando type fashion. If she will let you; when you pass by her, give her shoulders a very quick rub. If she likes cards or very simple gifts. Take her to lunch and buy her a single red rose to put in a bud vase on her desk or on a table. look for something she does on a regular basis and do it for her without her knowing it. Let her figure it out that it was you. Do something with her that she enjoys (even if you hate it).

There are lots of quick and simple things you can do to get her to enjoy the time she spends with you. If she starts to enjoy that time she will want to spend more of that time with you.

Blessing to you.

S&C