It occurs to me, AGG, that if you really want to give her closure, you could call her up, tell her there is nothing more to discuss and cancel. Nothing sends a clearer message, and it will save you both a emotion-charged meeting. I’ve been in her shoes. I regret that “one last meeting,” it never works and can be humiliating. Nothing like being rejected in person once again.

I cancelled the meeting, told her I didn't see the point of rehashing the same stuff, expecially after we beat it to death last night. I said "if you have specific questions, feel free to call, but I do not want to meet". Stay tuned...

Gnome,

I completely agree with you. All other issues aside, I would have very little confidence in her "changes", when for the previous nine months she went out of her way to tell me why she can't change, won't change, shouldn't change, and that I should accept her as-is.

And like you suggested, I agreed with her that it's important to accept your partner as-is, and not to try to change them. And since I couldn't accept her as-is, I chose to end the relationship, because the "as-is" was not working for me.

Do I believe that her changes will stick? No. More importantly, I think her changes are very superficial - she has dealt with the "obvious" quantitative things like switching her schedule, but I am sure that the more qualitative things will not change - the lack of energy, lack of interest in making a basic meal, going to the grocery store, going for a hike, taking care of her household, etc.

She did say a very sad and telling thing last night, confirming what I basically observed in her. She said that she basically had her life on hold, until she had her family and kids. That is exactly how it felt to me, that she was just sitting there letting life go by, waiting for someone to save her. Ugh.

AGG

I think you will be pleased with your decision this time around!

Yup <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. And surprisingly, she did not give me the "You useless spineless low-life POS slime" speech that I expected, but simply said that she will call me tonight, as she does have specific questions. Phew.

AGG

Hey there AGG,

Wow, I didn't know you cancelled, knew you were considering it but didn't know you went through with it. As a I said to you in an e-mail, I think you should have went since you said you would go but of course I do understand why you don't wnat to go, especially since you have rehashed this in e-mails and over the phone. It is just getting very old.

I was thinking back tonight at one of the earlier times J broke up with me. He did it over the phone. I was about 5 minutes from his house called and said, "I am almost there babe." He said, "We have to talk", I knew of course what that meant, I said, "Can I come over, I am so close, I want to see you face to face if you are going to do this?" He said, "Yes, of course". We talked, we said our "good byes", unlike G I didn't question, doubt or try to change his mind, try to tell him what is best for him, but thinking back I some how got closure looking him in the eyes and hearing it was over. I think it would have hurt much more if he would have said "no." but I also think I would have respected his wishes either way.

G on the other hand seems so off balance right now, maybe because she is not eating, not sleeping and it's really effecting her judgment, so who knows if it'll give her closure or not.

Hopefully eventually she'll let this go, my gut says since you agreed, you should have gone though, of course you gotta go with what your gut says though.

Good luck AGG.

Anna

Hi Anna, as you know, I was going to go and get it over with, but after the hour long phone call last night, I think there is nothing more to say. We know where each of us stands, so what is the point of being face to face? As GG said, it'll just reopen the same wounds, cause her rejection one more time, and probably humiliate her even more for feeling "in love" with me while I am not reciprocating. Really, even her e-mail to me today sort of acknowledged that; she said "I got lots of answers yesterday, and even though I did not like anything that I heard, it helped me". So, I am thinking, great, let's be done with this.


There is certainly some similarity in this story, but let's not forget - I did break up with G in person, when I told her face to face that this was not working for me. She was shocked, and dazed, so I think she did not feel that we had a face to face "breakup". But, we then proceeded to exchange e-mails for the next few weeks, where she really did nothing but argue with my reasons. Now, she wants to get together again, to argue some more face to face, now that she has had to think about it.

But, I don't think I owe her that. She was spewing so much nonsense last night, that I think I did my duty by listening to it without hanging up or laughing, but I don't think I need to keep listening to it. My talking to her is not going to help her move on, what she wants is to have me back, not to "understand". That's why she did not like what I had to say yesterday, because I burst her bubble of "why wouldn't you want to date the new G?".

So, yes, I would have felt bad if I broke with her by e-mail, but I didn't. And I do not think that I now owe her to keep talking about it over and over until she agrees with my reasons, which she never will. Like you said, this is getting very very old.

I'll see how tonight's chat goes, I am sure her first words will be "well why WON'T you meet with me, it'll help me!!!". Ugh.

AGG

I'm tuned.......did the phone call happen???

K!

Yes, now that you reminded me of this again, I always do think people should keep their word in most caes but you have told her by phone, in e-mail, in person, and even if you agreed in a week moment thinking it would give her closure doesn't mean you need to stick to it. She went way past disrepecting what you want so long ago!

Hope the phone call doesn't last another hour tonight, and I hope you end this with G once and for all, no more talks.

Anna

I'll see how tonight's chat goes, I am sure her first words will be "well why WON'T you meet with me, it'll help me!!!". Ugh.

Well, it isn't your job to help her move on and at the risk of sounding callous I would tell her that. She is responsible for that. People are allowed to break up with someone and not be expected to "hand hold" them through the emotional upheaval that it causes.

She needs some coping skills, that is for sure. It is not like you were married or something. KWIM?

EVERY time you converse on the phone, she is getting her AGG fix. EVERY time you meet, she is getting her AGG fix. She will NEVER get through this withdrawal unless she has ZERO contact with you. That might be the very best way that you can "help" her if you feel an obligation to.

Have ZERO..ZIP...ZILCH...NADA contact with her.

JMHO
committed

Very insightful there Committed!
Simply and truthfully stated. No contact is the best and only successful recovery!

G's on an "AGG Mission". To wow him back with the new and improved. It's exhausting to say the least. And what she really is missing is......she's pushing him further and further away with her efforts.

K!

Absolutely! In fact, I told her so in my e-mail when I said that I don't want to meet - I said "I am not one who can help you heal and move on", and in the phone chat, I made the obvious implication that it is a therapist's job to provide those services, should she need them. Cold, I know, but true.


Yup. It's funny how every time I break up with someone against their "will", I get that same speech - "Sure, we weren't married, but we had a SERIOUS relationship, not like we were just casually dating". Sigh. As if I break up with people without giving it due consideration and without agonizing over it. So yeah, I told G that we were not married or committed, and she tried to turn it around as if I was saying that we were just casually hanging out. Whatever. My conscience is more than clear.


I plan for the "Q&A" phone call (which she postponed to tonight) to be our last interaction. I agree that her obsessiveness is only keeping her from moving on, and it is affecting me as well, as I am losing sleep. And as Karona added, all this rehashing and obsessing is doing wonders to pushing me even further away from her...

AGG

Soooo, What's the word, nerd? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Indeed. How did it go?

curious minds.....

Quite uneventful, actually. I think the previous phone chat gave her the insight that she wanted (that I was done and didn't plan to give the "new G" a whirl), so there was not much more to discuss.

So we talked for 15 minutes, she didn't ask any questions, and we said goodbye.

She sounded down and defeated, which to me sounded like she probably is reaching the Acceptance phase of the process. I hope so.

AGG

Well, chiming in here a bit late AGG, but I think you did good not meeting her. After the hour long phone call, no point as you said.

I feel for G, not only for her broken heart, but b/c it just makes me sad that she was willing to change so much about herself to fit someone else's "criteria", instead of really trying to find her true match. I know you're a good catch AGG and were prolly a very good boyfriend to her, but your lifestyles were just plain ole incompatible. Compromise is inevitable in relationships, but when you have to start changing just about everything, that's just a recipe for diaster in the future. Hers are pretty out there I admit, but you know, she is who she is and hopefully she'll stop waiting around, waiting for her "husband and family", and start living her life.

She just doesn't get it.

We shall see, I have this little gut feeling that she may have just figured out plan A didn't work and her plan B is now kicking in...and Plan B is not the plan B we know...it's the sweet, vulnerable, I'll charm him back and stay away from begging now G....

from experience living with a chameleon. . .

never continue dating anyone who says they will change, changes and then the changes fade away. . .

my X used to always say, "this is a new me, in top secret training for ________" it never happened, it was all a dangle a carrot act. . .

AGG, you had a miller lite moment,

[color:"blue"]GOOD CALL![/color]

wiftty

So, Plan A is basically to make changes and demonstrate them so that you are meeting the needs of your partner that you didn't before.

G is/was attempting Plan A.

So why did it fail?

Was it because he didn't give her a chance to prove it over time?
Were her changes insincere?
Was it because she never really met AGG's needs? (this one gets my vote!)

I'm not a big fan of Plan A in the first place. I understand the logic of it -- and I think it has its moments. But there are so many variables to each situation that determine whether or not it will "work".

In this case, I think she never met those needs. But AGG was willing to overlook that in a dating situation. When considering it on a permanent basis -- the relationship didn't work. And I'm a believer that no one should have to change that drastically to make a relationship work.

In a marriage, you would hope that a partner had at one time met those needs. So for them to revert back to meeting those needs through Plan A, the plan might work.

Looking back, my needs changed through the course of my marriage. It wasn't until we had kids that domestic support, financial support and parenting skills became some of my top needs. He was NEVER good at them. So when he tried to change and demonstrate those abilities, it was insincere. I didn't trust his changes.

So my opinion on Plan A is that it will only work if the partner at one time had met those needs very very well.