I'm real busy right this minute but did I tell you that my H and I went to a Harville Hendrix IMAGO THERAPY WORKSHOP many moons ago?????

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Ohohohoh! That makes sense!

Terrific news...you remember how pumped you were? That's how I am...and DH and I are doing the exercises beginning tomorrow night with "Relationship Vision." At his suggestion.

Woohoo!

I LOVE that I can look at DH's stuff and see where it isn't my doing but his feeling...and find how much of me is in his FOO and be GRATEFUL for that, not responsible for it, because it brought us together. Same for me. Knowing that we do have basic, identical needs...different expressions of them, is so liberating...really goes to DH's saying...

We're in this together.

LA

Have you read the book, THE FIVE PEOPLE YOU MEET IN HEAVEN??

It's feeling like a lot of this was meant to be.

Kind of creepy...

Creepy or exquisite?

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That book is on my list...haven't gotten to it yet, but I'm bumping it up because YOU recommend it.

What if God has a plan for our lives...and his thorough respect bars predestination...our own freewill can interfere or fulfill...our choice. And when we really get his wonderful design...we begin connecting and growing into what he wanted for us all along...and our connectedness to others enlarges our lives...all two-way streets...so that we pass on his guidance and are guided through others from him, to where we fulfill the plan?

Totally within our control...where we set our goal, keep our focus and making our way to where his desire and our will are one?

Talk about a reunion! And hindsight always reveals how we got to here...and each twist and turn was necessary...can feel very much like we weren't in control...when even the choice to allow ourselves to be led...was our choice, all along.

Brain bender, eh? Is for me.

LA

very good point

some very good questions for me.

i DO see some of the characteristics in my H from when i first met him.....insecurities that make him exaggerrate so that he feels "bigger and better" because he has such low self esteem......and that leads to his great need for admiration and affection (both make him feel GOOD about himself)

but i think the counselor if mostly referring to my H's admitted fear that our marraige would never be the same because of what he did: that I would never "love him like i did" and that he would "always feel guilt and shame" and "never again see himself as that perfect person reflected in my eyes"

and i told the counselor that he said he could never be happy with me again because of all of these things.....but isn't that what ALL WH say?? especially when they don't want to end things with the OW?

and i really did believe he was invincible and wonderful....my "mr perfect"

as Mimi said....he showed me love like no other person had...unconditional and complete love....for who I am

but considering all of the years that i've known him, i DO NOT believe that he has NPD

so I DO believe that it is the typical WH crap

that's why i asked my questions....to have a discussion about NPD and typical WS behavior...and if anyone has experienced the same types of things that i have

Eav,

Something I would like to point out about Plan B that took me a bit to get. Yes you feel that your leaving behind your WH when you go into plan B and you desperately want to SHOW him how much you love him and you can take him back no matter what. All WS are narcissist, eitehr short term or long term. Now what you must realize some WS will see Plan B and get shocked back quickly, other's the ones that are more like long term or real NPD's tend to have a damned if you do or damned if you don't approach. If you go back into plan B he will feed off you and hurt you because that is part of the disorder, so that is YOUR choice. Plan B removed you from the equation, it protects you and your love from the feeding frenzy of the WS. So you could say that the more you love your husband the more you should plan B.... Remember no matter what you do, it will be his choice. You can stay in plan b as long as you like, 5 years if that is what you feel your willing to do, Plan B just simply removes you from the feeding pool, it allows you to develop your own space, you own thoughts without the pounding of the WS

In my case my WW has fallen totally back on a NPD mother and is has only the support of the OM who in all accounts i a true narcissist. All other friends are gone, they are supporting me and my modified plan b

thanks viking

Hi Eav,

I can certainly understand your feelings of wanting to keep giving your WH another (and another and another) chance.

Because that's the mistake I was making - literally for decades.

Whether or not your WH truly is inflicted with NPD (and that is why he is unfaithful) or he is temporarily exhibiting NPD tendencies (because he is being unfaithful), it would be a mistake for you to keep assuring him that no matter how cruel he is to you, you will always be there for him.

For now, forget any past niceties until/unless he gets the help he needs to start show GENUINE care for you in the present and future. If he really does have NPD you need to come to the realization that any niceties in the past were just con-artistry anyway. Harsh - yes. Sad - exceedingly. BUT if it's really NPD - it's the truth that you simply must start to deal with.

Near the end of the book Men Who Can't Love there is a section describing the very cruel way some men (or women) will string along a devoted, betrayed lover for extended periods of time until finally the abuser no longer needs the victim. I guess they figure if you're willing to allow yourself to be put through heartbreak over and over again then why not use you until they simply don't have any more use for you? So the cycle of romantic seductive reconciliation followed by yet another break-up keeps repeating. Only the cycles play out quicker and quicker... AND more cruelly. Near the end, my WXH (NO doubt NPD) could even go from promising he would never cheat again, that he was back for good, blah-blah-blah... to dumping me and going back to the other woman, within a single hour!

What if he just keeps hurting you and then leaves you for good someday anyway? Why presume that allowing him to keep you in his life, when and if he wants to be around you, will lead to any sort of pay-off for you in the long run? Or maybe he won't ever dump you completely; are you really willing to be there for him between OW minus any real caring or committment from him?

Again, even if your WH does not have NPD, but is 'just' temporarily behaving as cruelly as a person with NPD, the only way to protect yourself from his cruelty is with Plan B.

You also need to start seriously considering that your marriage might not be savable. At least acknowledge that he has to decide for himself. Plan B is for protecting yourself and protecting any possible hope for a healthy marriage recovery.

How can you possibly hope to continue to love a person who is emotionally abusing you? Plan B protects the possibility of future marital recovery by minimizing the damage the WS can inflict. Do you really want to hear the sort of things someone in his state of mind would say to you? Why make marital recovery even harder work by allowing him opportunities to be even more destructive?

Get to a very safe place and stay there.
Maybe he will get help and come looking for you someday.
Maybe he won't.
If he doesn't you're still better off.

I know you want to help him... You can't do that by coddling him in any way OR by allowing him to mistreat you.
The only way you might possibly help him is by refusing to be the target of his sick games. Then he has to either stop the sick games or find another victim. The only part you have control over is whether or not YOU will continue to be his victim.