Yes Scotty, I would most definitely go ahead and call OMW again...She can be your biggest ally in killing this affair and helping to insure no contact between the infidels...Also it would be great if she were to be implementing MB principles in trying to save her marriage as well...

Mrs. W

Well,

WW called this morning. She said that she wanted to make sure that I was ok because I didn't return her call after she left the message saying she was going to see the lawyer.

We talked for about 15 minutes. I told her that I am feeling hurt, but am ok. I told her everything that I have done in the past few days was not because of revenge or spite, but becasue it was what I felt had to be done to save our marriage.

Her mother called her this morning and asked her to wait to make any rash decisions. WW said that she feels like she would just be putting off the inevitable. Although she tries to make it sound like she knows exactly where her feelings are with me, I can tell that there is some doubt there. It may not be enough to change her mind, and I still know that my marriage could very well be over, but there is still hope.

I told her WW that I wasn't going to discuss divorce with her. She brought up my broken promises again, and this time it wasn't as hard to bite my tounge. She has an appointment with the lawyer at 1:00 p.m. today but I don't know if she will actually follow through with filing papers.

I really had to focus on not trying to reason with her. I just told her that I loved her and that I wasn't prepared to throw in the towell on my marriage yet. I told her I wasn't going to tell her what to do, and that she needed to make her own decisions. I told her that she is welcome to come back home whenever she wants. She said that she can't live in the same house with me right now.

I told her that we should get together and go bowling sometime, or get together and take the dog for a walk, and no serious talk. I ended the call by telling her that she can call me anytime, especially if she wanted to go bowling. She laughed. It was good to hear that.

I am prepared for this to be an emotional roller coaster. My biggest concern is still the no contact. If there is really no contact then she may change her mind when she starts coming out of the fog.

Scotty

Scotty...

How is there going to be no contact when she still works with OM? As long as she still sees him she will never fully withdraw from him and recovery will never be able to begin...Call OMW and find out how she plans to handle the job issue...Is she going to expose them at work, or have her husband quit? If not, then you may have to take that route...Either way, you need to know...

Mrs. W

P.S. Remember you can't take your WW's word that OM has ended the affair with her...NEVER trust an untrustworthy person!

I decided I better start a new post because I found myself writing in the last and getting off topic.

I do want to call the OMW again because I know that the no contact is absolutely critical right now. OM has told WW that he can't have any contact with her, but I don't know how serious he is about that. I can only hope that OMW is putting a great deal of pressure on OM right now and is using all the leverage that she has.

I started reading Surving an Affair last night. The opening story of Jon and Sue hit way too close to home. It was even harder for Sue as she had children in the marriage, yet she was ready to throw it all away. And she didn't follow through with the no contact either. The affair had to ultimately die on it's own accord. I hope that OMW and myself can prevent that from happening in our situation but I have no zero leverage with WW right now.

After reading the first 50 pages or so, I couldn't get the picture of WW and OM having sex out of my head. It made me sick to think about it but I couldn't stop. It makes me very angry. I know that if our marriage gets another chance, it will be something that I will have to work on. It won't be easy to do.

I think that WW is actually thinking of quitting her job and moving out of state. If she did that, I honestly don't know if we would ever have a chance. I just can't pack up and leave everything that I have here to chase the pipe dream that our marriage will work. I guess the only positive there is that it would be harder for her to have meaningful contact with him.

So where am I at? I paid for my ticket and I took a seat in the roller coaster. I'm sitting in my seat waiting for the attendant to make sure that everybody is taking the proper safety precautions. I'm scared becuase I've never been on a roller coaster before, I'm way out of my comfort zone. I can't turn back now because the roller coaster has just started to move. It's going to happen. All I can do is say a prayer, hold on to my hat, and try to prepare myself for the ride.

Thanks again for all the support.

Scott

Scotty...

Slow down...Your WW is an addict desperately spewing out fog and babble because she is an addict and right now she is desperate...You remain calm...Be still...Be her lighthouse...You cross bridges when you come to them...Deep breaths...One step at a time...You are doing great...

Right now, call OMW and find out what is going on in their neck of the woods...

Mrs. W

Scotty,

Get off the rollercoaster!! Refuse to ride it! How, you ask???

Let your wife ride it. When she wants to take you high...dont set yourself up for that. When she wants to hurt you, dont let yoruself go for that.

Let me ask you a question...if your wife was stoned or drunk, and then said "I dont love you"...would you believe that as much as if she said it sober? Of course not!!Well, your wife has a different addiction. She is "drunk" right now. So, dont go with her on the rollercoaster. A drunk has no idea what they are doing or saying. They are impaired!

So, when she says hurtful or silly stuff...or does hurtful or silly stuff...just look at her as you would if she was plastered. And dont take it personally.

I know it is hard! But as I have said over and over on here, you are about to learn the difference between simple and easy. This is very simple...it is not easy!

I called and left a message on OM and OMW's answering machine. OM was scheduled to work today, but don't know if he actually is.

Maybe was a risk that I shouldn't have taken, but I agree that I need to be allies with OMW to try to keep the no contact and to figure out what is going to happen with their work situation.

Hopefully OM wasn't there. Hopefully OMW has not moved out for the time being and OM gets the message; it has the potential to backfire.

Did I make a mistake leaving a message? Everybody knows that I was the one to expose to OMW. In any event, too late now.

Scott

Scotty, you are acting out of desperation. We know how that feels, but you must understand that it hampers YOUR ability to think clearly and rationally. And since your wife is NOT thinking clearly and rationally, YOU must do so for the both of you, no matter how much your emotions scream at you to let your "Taker" take over.

No, imho, you should not leave a message. Either speak directly to the person or say nothing.

ONE day at a time, Scotty. Resolve to ONLY handle one day at a time, one day at a time.

As for the "mental movies" you mentioned....been there, 6 years worth of them....lock them in a corner of your mind "to get back" later on. You can "get back to them" tomorrow every day. They will occasionally force themselves into your conscious mind, and when they do, take them forceably back to the dungeon and lock them up for another day. It will get better, but not for a long time and certainly not while she is not willing to undertake recovery.

God bless.

NEED ADVICE.

WW went to her lawyer today. She is ready to proceed with filing a Petition. Lawyer told her that it would cost $1,200 to do a uncontested divorce. WW called and told me that she had her initial consultation and that Lawyer will be drawing up the paperwork. I told her that I cannot agree to an uncontested divorce. I told her that if she was willing to sign an agreement stating that she would have no contact with him and wait for 5 months, I would not contest the divorce if she still felt the same way. She stated that she would not agree to quit her job, and that she would go out and get a loan to pay the hefty retainer for a contested divorce if need be. (And becasue she makes really good money, she could do so).

My emotions started getting in the way during our conversation. I was wishy washy because I don't believe a thing she tells me right now and I just can't belive that there will be no contact. She stated that she will not have any contact with him at work other than the necessary and that there are almost always other people around (and a fair amount of people know about their affair). I asked if her bosses knew about it and she said no. She suspects that I will tell them. Mistake brining it up, I know. I have made many today.

I don't know what to do. If I make her go through the contested divorce, she will resent me. I can delay it for a while, but not 5 months. And she will continue to have contact with him at work no matter. I stupidly called and left a message for OMW (above) and she hasn't called me back so I don't think that I will have her as an ally.

WW thinks I am still pressuring her too much. My dad (who is just trying to look out for me) text messaged her this morning asking her not to make a rash decision with the divorce. (Her mom called her and told her the same thing; neither were by my asking). She responded back to him so he wrote her another message, which she now feels is pressure....WS babble.

ANYWAY, Do I make a deal with her having her sign soemthing saying that she won't have contact with him for 5 months other than what is absolutely necesary at work (no informal conversations - no conversations not work related) or do I just tell her to go get her loan becasue I won't agree to any deal that doesn't involve strict no contact.

I am leaning towards making the deal. I can then do a little snooping and if I find out about her having no contact then I void any agreement if I so choose.

Please advise.

Scotty...

DO NOT MAKE THAT DEAL...NO WAY!!! If she goes through with the divorce, who cares if she resents you...If she does that, do NOT delude yourself into thinking that you will be her friend!!!

No contact is IMPOSSIBLE while she still works with OM..."Business Contact" for a WS is like a "business drink" to an alcoholic...NO, NO, NO!!! If she has contact of ANY kind with OM she will NEVER withdraw from this affair and in all likelihood the affair will RESUME, making any recovery IMPOSSIBLE!

I believe you need to go ahead with the work exposure...

Also, just because OMW hasn't called you back does not mean that she is not your ally...Remember, OM may have intercepted that message...Call her back using *67 until you get her on the phone...

Mrs. W

I would like the input of others here-also some folks may be able to provide examples, but I believe that work exposure should be done in letter form to HR, talking about the distinct possibility of sexual harassment lawsuits because of a workplace affair, also it should ask them what they plan to do about it...You can then follow up your letter with a phone call...

Mrs. W

Mrs W beat me to the punch, but pretty much what she said.

Make divorce hard for her. Others have said it in other threads...if she wants to talk about reconciliation and reparing your marriage she can talk to you...for divorce talk she can talk to your attorney. You do have one, right? If she has to take out a loan to cover the retainer to file for a contested divorce...too bad.

Don't make that deal. Even if she was offering in good faith, NC is really hard to verify unless the WS is totally transparent...and it doesn't sound like she will be.

Hope you've frozen or otherwise secured the marital assets. Draining the joint checking account to pay for a lawyer is very common.

Expose at her work. It may or may not do any good, but you won't know unless you expose.

Leaving a message for OMW was a mistake but it's done, so move on. The fact that OMW hasn't called you back yet only means that she hasn't called you back yet. Maybe OM intercepted the message...maybe she went out of town to stay with her folks...maybe she's just busy being a mom to two kids...maybe she doesn't know exactly what to say to you...could be anything. Don't sweat it.

I figured that the consensus was going to be not to make that deal. I'm having a problem letting my emotions get the better of me today. Two phone calls from her have got me in a tailspin. I know that she is still in the fog, and this may well just be babble, but she said that she felt like she was trapped and was very unhappy before the affair ever started and that she cannot force herself to love me, because she tried.

I just received a text message from WW. She said that she will "hold off on proceeding with the divorce but refuse to sign anything. Have all intentions of staying clear of OM on my own."

Another quick question. Should I go over to OMW's house before OM gets off of work and and apologize for leaivng a message and ask her not to bring it up to OM? I think I already know the answer, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

I hate this.

Scott

I'd stay away. Give her some time to return your call. This woman just found out her WH had an affair for two years, some of it while she was pregnant...she has to figure out what to do about her marriage, and in the meantime she still has a toddler and a newborn to take care of. The last thing she needs is a frantic BH pestering her.

I say wait a day or two and then follow up when you know OM won't be home.

In the meantime...go do something for YOU. Call some friends and go play pool...go to a movie...go work out...focus on your work...paint a room in the house...get the idea..?

Agree with bitbucket...Don't bother going over to her house...Apology is unnecessary...

Scotty PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT listen to the fog babble spewing from your WW's mouth...That is all it is...I know that she looks and sounds like your wife, but she is NOT your wife right now, she is a WW, an alien and she can NOT be trusted...The "trapped" line is straight from the WS handbook...IGNORE IT...hard as it is...And of course she will sign nothing...hmmm, what does that tell you? She KNOWS she has no intentions of following any agreement about NC...Right now she is an addict and you can be sure that she is focusing all attention on how to get her OM fix...

Get started on that letter to HR...I KNOW that you think that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but it is NOT Scotty, the AFFAIR is the straw that will break your marriage...PERMANENTLY...She will be angry, but anger she can and will get over...Your marriage will NOT survive an ongoing affair...

Mrs. W

“…she said that she felt like she was trapped and was very unhappy before the affair ever started and that she cannot force herself to love me, because she tried. “

We have all heard this same noise. It’s in chapter one of the WS handbook. It’s fogspeak at the level of learning to ask, “Where is the bathroom?” in a foreign language.


“She said that she will "hold off on proceeding with the divorce but refuse to sign anything. Have all intentions of staying clear of OM on my own."’

Right. And I have a bridge you need to buy. It’s a real nice one, only used by a little old lady on Sunday mornings. I swear! Do you honestly think a lying, cheating adulterer will adhere to signing anything? Remember your wedding license?


“Another quick question. Should I go over to OMW's house before OM gets off of work and apologize for leaving a message and ask her not to bring it up to OM? I think I already know the answer, but just thought I'd throw that out there.”

Get a grip. There is fear at work here. You need to stop apologizing. There may be collateral damage to some of your actions, but dang it, you are at war! Stop trying to be so nice. No one will care after it’s all a smoking ruin. Man up, take charge, make decisions and stick with them. In this case, just keep trying to contact her and update her on your situation and suggest her H needs to find another job since that is where contact continues.

There must be total no contact, not even business contact.


“I hate this.”

Lol, so do I. Now make your WW hate it too.

Expose, expose, expose. Like I said before, a WS with fundamental addiction issues needs nuclear exposure. No mincing around waiting for reactions. That will only give her time for damage control. Addicts are pros at damage control and manipulation. Give her no breathing room. Waiting only provides more time to you to misstep. Really, Scotty, attack with overwhelming force. This was not a drunken ONS mistake - finesse will not be rewarded.


I actually think you are doing a pretty good job on such short notice. But stop second guessing yourself. It’s not productive right now.


With prayers,


PS: When are you going to call the Harleys?

huh?? Apologize for WHAT, Scotty? What have you done wrong? Of course you should not call and apologize for leaving a message. Rather, you should call her back again if you don't hear from her.


Do not agree to any divorce. You are not interested. DO NOT MAKE BARGAINS or talk about legal issues with a falling down DRUNK. You cannot take a fogged out person seriously. Just tell her you will not agree to ANY divorce or anything unless court ordered.

And PLEASE CALM DOWN. Your wife is fogged out and confused and her moods will change from day to day. PAY HER WORDS NO MIND. Don't talk about anything serious with her. Just be light and superficial and as pleasant as possible.

And most of all, recognize that you are speaking to a falling down drunk whose moods will change with every moment. Don't allow yourself to live at the mercy of her moods!

Scotty, you need to expose this affair at work ASAP before they pre-empt you. You have the affair on the ropes right now, move in for the finish before they get back up.

And please understand that your wife will HATE YOUR GUTS right now. THIS IS IF YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB OF SLAUGHTERING THE AFFAIR. If she likes you right now it is becuase you are operating against your best interests and enabling her affair! That is the only way she will like you right now. If you become her ENABLER.

Remember the goal: it is to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE by killing the affair. It is NOT to ENABLE a marriage killing AFFAIR. That is the only way to make her happy right now!

Scotty...

You getting all of this???? You listening?

You are dealing with an addict. Treat her as such. She will be ticked off as you take her bottle of rum away. Then she will be nice, trying to negotiate. Then she will try to hide things, and make you believe that there might be a future (all the while taking a few swigs behind your back!!).

Please settle down. We all understand the emotions you currently have (and have been there). And I agree with the observation above that you are doing a pretty good job. You will make mistakes. Dont worry about them. As was said, yo uare at war...and when launching thousands of rounds, sometimes a few miss the target. You cant worry about them.

Stay on mission. Keep coming back here to vent and for intel and advice.

Your wife says she feels pressure and trapped. Yeah! Awesome! Perfect! You should be HAPPY! Why? Because it means reality is closing in on her fogland. It is getting tight in there. Harder and harder to maintain the lies that she has told you and others. And the lies she has told herself!

If she is feeling this way, it means that the exposure and Plan A are working.

Stay on mission!

Scotty,

She said she is going to hold off on the divorce proceedings for now???? What is that?

I sense that she doesn't know what she wants. FOG. Yep, she's in it. Just wait it out. The lights will come on if you wait.

The problem is contact - exposure at work might lead him to quit, and you're right, your WW might move. But she MIGHT NOT. She sounds like a little wobbly right now. Hold on. Give this a little time to work. The pressure on her has just started, and like you said, the rollercoaster operator hasn't really gotten the ride going yet.

Scotty, remember, though - you didn't buy this ticket, and you aren't in complete control of the ride or the speed. But you do have lots of help from your friends here.

SB