Thanks Mrs. W, I stole them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Where's Scotty today?

~ Marsh

After my chuckle (thanks Mr. W), I sit here wondering Scotty if you are going to fire that round. You are running out of time.

Stop over-analyzing this and understand what you are doing here. I see too often on here, BSs want to pick & choose the parts of the principles outlined here. And 99% of the time, they shouldnt have. They should have used them as they were intended to be used.

Dr. Harley has been combatting adultery for far longer than most of us have been married. He knows what he is doing. If you have read his articles and books, then you know what he says about exposure. And about timing.

For us BSs...we dont see it. We are scared of supposed consequences. But most of those consequences never come. Why? Because a new BS has no idea what the dynamics are here...and that 90% of the time, you need to do the opposite of what your rational mind is telling you to do.

Refuse to lose, Scotty! Refuse. As Mrs. W stated, you standing up for your wife and for your marriage is "hot" to a woman. Most women get involved in affairs when they do not respect their husband. Most women have deep feelings for a man that they can respect. Scotty...right now, your wife does not respect you!

So, demand respect. You demand it thru your actions. You take charge...you lead. You do right...always! You show honor and character in the face of this mess.

You see, she looked at OM and thought she respected him. But his true colors have come thru...and she is disgusted. But, as she turns away from the OM...what will she see? Will she see a guy whining, worried, upset, begging, not knowign what to do?? Or will she see a man standing there, doing the right thing with confidence, with purpose...with a sense of "I know what I'm doing and I am moving us forward"?

Help me ladies...which guy is more appealing to you???

Scotty, I am not saying you have acted whimpy. Far from it...you have been in the battle...and she has noticed. But you are now caving somewhat...losing your nerve. Dont do it! Stay in the fight, trust God...and trust in the principles you have learned here.

If not, you will make this harder than it needs to be...and longer than it needs to go.

As Steve Harley told me once..."Mortarman, you cant shorten this...but you can make it go longer."

Fire the round Scotty. So you can move on to the next thing. And keep the affair where it belongs...headed for the grave.

Scotty,

When I exposed my WW to her boss and coworkers, she swore that I crossed the line and any chance of us reconciling was gone because of my actions. FIVE DAYS LATER, she cut off contact with the OM. This was one week ago today. Last night she slept in the same bed as me. Get the picture? Do it, and do it now. You will save yourself a lot of suffering down the road if you just expose now. If you would have exposed to her boss immediately like we all told you, you might already be on the road to recovery. For god's sake, just get it over with and expose the affair to their work. You can do it!

- Jim

Scotty:

Listen to the advice.

1. You expose her A at her Workplace. The A gets closer to dead. She is angry and moves to AZ. To bad for you.

2. You expose her A at her Workplace. The A gets closer to dead. She is angry and stays with you. Good for you.

3. You do nothing more. The A continues, She is Happy and moves to AZ. To bad for you.

So you are Damned if you do, Damned if you don't, so you might as well. Cuz it is the only way to effect the change that you want. She has been controling it to this point, now its your turn.

I hear you all, and deep down I want to do this. I have not made the decision yet, but plan on doing so soon as the longer I wait the decision becomes moot.

I am drafting the letter to the Director of HR and the Director of the Pharmacy right now. I am not yet 100% committed to delivering it yet as I am waiting to hear from my IC and another counselor that I am talking to. I KNOW that you all have my best interests at heart, but I need to do all the research that I can and get all the advice that I can before I commit to this. And if I decide to do this, I want to be 100% committed to it.

Can anybody give me some suggestions as to how I should word the letter. I do plan on meeting them face to face, telling them what is in the letter face to face, and then leaving them the letter.

Scotty

Mortarman,

Where are the articles from Dr. Harley on exposure? I re-read all the relevant portions of surviving an affair last night and although Dr. Harley states that extreme measures have to be taken for no contact, that is under the premise that the WW wants to try to work out the marriage.

I was advised to read Dobson's "Love must be tough" by a counselor at my church. She does not think that I should expose to her work as that would not be giving her a free choice and without such she will always resent me. I read the book last night. I liken Dobson's free choice to that of Harley's Plan B. They differ, but the same general idea.

Dobson is also very big on the idea that your spouse needs to respect you, and vice versa. Mort, you hit the nail on the head that WW just doesn't respect me right now.

The question is, how does exposing to her work make her respect me? I can see how fighting for my marriage may give me some respect in her eyes if the anger doesn't drive her to immediatley file for divorce, but Dobson also warns against smoldering the last burning ember of love she may have for me.

Thoughts?

Scott

Scotty:

As another professional, if you were to dither like this on my legal case, I would fire you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

You would know what to do in a legal case. And you know what your responsibilities are. And you would not avoid them. So act.

Post your draft now. Make the appointment with HR now. Do not wait for responses here, if your Appointment is today. Just go. You can send amendments later. Even the court allows you to amend as additional information become available. And believe me, you do not want to spend the time digging up the legal cites for support in your letter. The HR dept already knows. And you can do it later, if you wish.

And someone else recommended that you just go in and send the letter later.

You will never hurt your W as bad as she has hurt you with the A. SO do what you gotta do.

The start of my letter.

Hospital
Director of Human Resources
Director of Pharmacy

To whom it may concern:

I write this letter as a concerned husband. My wife, WS, has been having an affair with another pharmacist, OM, for approximately the last two years. Both OM's wife and myself are now aware of the affair and I have been informed that the affair has ostensibly ended.

I am not writing this letter out of revenge, spite, or jealously. I am not writing this letter for the purpose of getting either one of them terminated. I write this letter to shed light on the affair. Shedding light on the affair at their workplace, where both of them continue to work together, will make it more difficult to continue the affair if it has not ended and will make it more difficult for the affair to rekindle if it has.


All I have so far. Have to go to court so I will be back in an hour. Thanks for the support.

Scotty

Shouldn't you include something in there about his having a postion of authority over her?

~ Marsh

Like Marshmallow said, I would include the part about him having a position of authority over your wife, and how that opens them up to legal liability. I would also include your desire for them to be segregated from each other to prevent a relapse of the affair. Let them know that no contact is key to ending the affair. They are probably not familiar with Dr. Harley's principles, so let them know what you are trying to accomplish by writing the letter.

- Jim

Scotty,

I respect the fact that you do not want to cause resentment in your WW.

You made a reference to Dobson's free choice and Harley's Plan B. It has always been my interpetation that Dobson's free choice was speaking more to the WS. Whereas Plan B is for the BS. Two different audiences.

The exposure at work does not grant immediate respect (it does, of course, create immediate anger.). It is like Plan A in that respect. The respect comes later when she is at a point where she can interpet YOUR actions in trying to SAVE your marriage.

A couple of things to think about:

What do you have to loose with this exposure?
1.) She has already moved out.
2.) She already has no respect for you.
3.) She is already angry.
In all honesty she's already played her big card (moving out). What more can she do?

What do you have to gain with this exposure?
1.) Additional pressure on the affair.
2.) Consequences / reality check for your WW.
All of these are positives for you and will work in your favor.

Consider the advice you've gotten from other sources VS the advice you have received here. Which has been more effective in damaging / stopping the affair?

I'm still voting Yes as far as firing that round. The longer you wait the less effective it will be. But, I degress, you already know this. Help yourself, git'r done!

Stay Strong Scotty!

I don't think I need to put anything about him being in a position of authority over her. First, he is not in such a position as they are both staff pharmacits. He has worked there longer, and he was the one who helped in her training, but that's really it. Besides, the hospital will know what their relative status is and I don't need to make them aware of potential liability in these types of situations. That is what upper management and HR get paid to do, think of those possibilities. I think all it does is make it look like I am doing it out of revenge.

I'm thinking about the segregation. How detailed do I want to make this letter. Do I want to discuss no contact. The only way to have no contact is for them to not work together. I don't want to give them the impression that I expect one of them to be terminated or transferred. If they decide to do, Great. If not, I am sticking with my purpose of writing and exposing to shed light on the affair.

Any other advice as to what should be in the letter?

And another big question that I need help with. Assuming that WW does not just go right to her atty to file the paperwork for the D, assuing that she calls me to unleash ******, what do I say to her and how do I say it?

Scotty

“I hear you all, and deep down I want to do this. I have not made the decision yet, but plan on doing so soon as the longer I wait the decision becomes moot.”

Something to consider that has not been brought up yet: The longer you dither, the longer this goes on, the more your own Love Bank will be drained. If you want to stay married you need to protect your LB balance. You need to do this sooner than later else you will find you have no love left for your wife.

Also, the longer you let this fester the more resentment you will have to deal with during recovery.

All the experts write the greatest threat to the marriage is not the WS but the BS. And that is because about six moths after NC is truly in place the BS starts to backfill all the anger and resentment. So the more of this crap you avoid right now the less you will need to process in the coming two years of recovery.

OTOH, since you will be dealing with her ED as well as the wounds from her adultery you may want to think right now about how much you want this M. Scotty, I am pro M, religiously so, but some M’s are less viable than others. M to an ED is one of those. Add adultery to it (and with ED there is almost always adultery) and the obstacles to recovery are huge. The odds of a happy M are very small to an ED who has already acted on her oh so strong impulse to stray.

I guess what I am saying is maybe you should take a moment and examine your true motives. Not your feelings mind you, feelings are never trustworthy. Take out your telescope and scan the horizon of your recovered M. It may in fact not be worth it, and your subconscious knows it.

Hence your inability to act with rapidity and determination?

You have a lot on your plate. But it is in your long-term interest to think about your future both with and without your WW. It is obvious that your inner self is, whether you have noticed it or not.

ed: Take the ENQ just for yourself. How well have your ENs been met by her? How well do you think she will ever be able to meet your ENs? And remember, EDs are addicts and addicts cannot meet someone else's ENs. I would hate for you to recover from this adultery just to find yourself in your own affair a fews years from now.


With prayers for you, as well as your M,

Scotty...

I would state the FACTS of what has gone on ONLY...I would NOT try and educate them about "shedding light on the affair"...They will NOT get that-what you can and should say is that you are bringing this situation to their attention because you feel that it is their right to know what is going on with their staff-THEY ARE A HOSPITAL SCOTTY, THIS IS A BIG FAT DEAL-Anyway...that you love your wife and wish to save your marriage...I MOST CERTAINLY would ask them what they plan to do regarding this situation...That requires them to be accountable and do some critical thinking, which is GOOD...Scotty infidels make VERY CARELESS mistakes-they are WRECKLESS ADDICTS...I personally have BTDT, and can tell you that I wouldn't have wanted me in charge of dispensing medication to sick people at that time-NO WAY...I WAS A MESS...SO ARE THEY...This hospital deserves to know what is going on and protect themselves, wouldn't you agree??? Don't sound so appologetic in your letter, you are doing EVERYONE involved a favor...YOU ARE THE HERO...THE GUY IN THE WHITE HAT...I IMPLORE YOU TO ACT LIKE IT!!!

As far as what to say to your wife...Well, please understand that when she finds out she will spew venom your way most likely...she will make threats...scream, yell, cry...yada, yada, yada...When she yells, you whisper...You stay on message...Tell her that you love her and will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that it takes to save your marriage...SHE IS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU...Tell her you CHERISH her...USE THAT WORD...WWs almost ALWAYS say that is one of the reasons that they strayed...They did not feel CHERISHED...It's a BIG DEAL...HUGE...Use that word in particular...Be her soft spot to fall...Listen, nod, don't try to educate her...as hard as it is, if you can handle it, let her cry about OM to you...She has been rejected...That is painful...I know it is screwy to comfort your WIFE over a BREAKUP, but it is what it is...Don't scream and yell and her...Tell her that you are 50% responsible for the state of the marriage pre affair and that you are sorry-Notice this is NOT saying that you are to blame for the affair...YOU ARE NOT, but don't try telling her this right now...that will come later...For now, TLC as much as she will allow it...It will AWE her...

But Scotty, first things first, PLEASE don't wait on more advice...I know that is the lawyer in you...I am married to one, remember...I know you must weigh all scenarios in your profession...THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR THAT...Please go and LEAD...THAT is Biblical...THAT is Right...and again...THAT is HOT...DO IT!!!

Mrs. W

P.S. As for the free choice deal...Um, Scotty, your WW has made decisions about your life without your input, did you have free choice there??? ACT NOW!!!

New draft:

To whom it may concern:

I write this letter as a concerned husband. My wife, WS, has been having an affair with another pharmacist, OM, for approximately the last two years. Both Mr. OM's wife and myself are now aware of the affair and I have been informed that the affair has ostensibly ended.

I am not writing this letter out of revenge, spite, or jealously. I am not writing this letter for the purpose of getting either one of them terminated. I write this letter because I feel the hospital has a right to know what is, or what has gone on with its staff. I write this letter to shed light on the affair, as the hospital is where the affair started and where both of them continue to work together. I would like to know what the hospital intends to do about this situation, if anything.

I love my wife, am committed to the vows that I made to her, and am doing what I feel is necessary to save my marriage.

My law partner said I should take the last sentence out, but that is not for the hospital, that is for my wife should the hosptial give her that letter.

Any other suggestions: I am calling the HR department to set up an appointment for as soon as possible. Accordingly, need any other imput ASAP.

Thanks
Scotty

If you are worried about the last sentence then how about:

I love my wife and I am committed to my vows that I made to her. She is a wonderful person who has unfortunately made a terrible decision. I still find her worth fighting for and intend to do so.

I wouldn't tell the hospital has ended because it never truly ends until there is no contact. Your admission that it is over may give some weak-kneed HR person the justification to do nothing about the situation. Let the hospital know that you want no contact between the OM and your WW to prevent the affair from reoccuring. Don't say "if anything." Make it known that you expect them to do something. I'm not a lawyer, but that is what I would want to convey.

- Jim

Scotty...

I think that the letter is reasonable-the most important thing is getting this done...I would still recommend taking out the part about "shedding light on the affair"...Here's why, to those not familiar with infidelity this says NOTHING...They don't understand that affairs thrive in secrecy, so therefore, it likely would be construed by them as vindictive in some way...I also would put something in there saying you are informing them because of possible legal ramifications to the hospital in such situations...ie sexual harrassment suits...You aren't using your legal stationary, so it would not be a threat, it is only informative...Remember, you don't know if the sharpest knife in the drawer will be reading this and you must spell out even the obvious...Further, I would ask that though you aren't asking for termination necessarily, you do believe it in the best interest of the hospital as well as the two families at stake to have the two staffers separated...Asking for results is the most likely way to get them...

I agree with you about leaving in the part about loving your wife and wanting to save your marriage...It goes towards showing your intent to the hospital and yes is good if your wife reads it...

Have you checked the hospital's website for any terminology regarding ethics and/or commitment to family and community? It would be great to throw that wording in if it's there...You know, something along the lines of...I know that an institution as committed to ethics and community as you are would want to know what is going on amongst it's ranks...yada, yada, yada...

Mrs. W

EXCELLENT POINTS Jim!!! I concur!!!

Mrs. W