Well, this past week, the wheels seem to have come off of our recovery. W and I were in counselling for a while and things seemed to be improving. The pain of the affair was residing and my trust in her was growing steadily. She did a lot of things that were really good for our relationship. As recently as last Friday and Saturday we went out on great dates and were affectionate and close.

Sunday it all seems to have come to a halt. W told me she is tired of having to be perfect, told me she needs a break, told me she nothing feels natural to her, told me that she thinks about ending our marriage, etc. This past week has been absolultely aweful. Affection is rejected; if I hug her she doesn't move. I don't know how to describe it but it feels like she has given up on me. At first I think I reacted very badly, basically clinging to her trying to talk about things, trying to hug her in bed while she just lies there like a board... I've backed off a lot now but I don't know how to act.

We had counselling yesterday but it didn't have much of an effect on her so far. She's still nice and friendly and we talk and laugh but I feel like a room-mate now. During counselling some more info came out:
- there is a bad dynamic going on where she feels she has to ask me permission for things and that has been building resentment
- she REALLY resents the snooping I do/did. When we talked about this I refrained from bringing up the reasons since I think "throwing the affair in her face" would have really done a lot of damage; instead I showed her the keylogger and removed it from the computer.

Tonight we have a date. I suspect right now she is seriously considering leaving me and I'm on "trial" right now. "Do I want to keep trying with this guy" kind of thing. Frankly I'm not looking forward to this date. I've been putting a brave face on things but inside I feel incredibly depressed; I can't sleep now, work performance is terrible; lost 4 lbs already... Inside I'm not doing well at all.

I think basically she feels trapped. How do I let the cage door open but not push her out of it?

She's not a FWW yet.

Not that she's in an affair currently

Just that she has not owned her chit yet.

She also sounds completely resistent to processing it.

It's tough stuff to own.

It took my wife many months.

I thought we'd made a ton of progress and then, bang, she'd make more.

If she's 4 or 5 months out she may really be reaching a breaking point. I don't know how to pull or push her in the right direction AT that breaking point but I hope you,or I should say, SHE can do it. This ARE character defining moments that only SHE can truly process. She can run and hide from it or face it. I guess YOU being there facing it with her is the only way you can help...but she needs to process it by herself.

My wife is thankful I snooped. She totally gets it and appreciates that I did all I could to fight for OUR family. I think most truly FORMER ws's understand this. Only SHE can get this.

If she hasn't read or heard HNHN, I suggest getting it on CD audio version and listening to it together in the car on a roadtrip. If you've got the book already have her at least read it.

I am hoping this is just a part of the rollercoaster of recovery and she (and you) grins and bears it. This is YOUR life too...live it. Without tough times, the good times aren't as good. Live in the now...whatever happens, happens...accept uncertainty. If she moves out or separates you can deal with the issue when and if it arises.

That's all I got.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the reply Mr W. I'm going to do my best to just hang in and try not to do any damage. I do feel tempted to snoop BAD but I'm resisting it.

Yesterday she said a lot about how that she has been spyed on she can't be comfortable in her own home. Now that it has happened to her she doesn't know if she can ever feel normal again.

I feel SO tempted to tell her to leave. On Sunday I told her if she didn't want me then I wanted her to leave. I told her its her decision. Probably not helpful... I'm really struggling to contain my feelings/anger. So far no outbursts or disrespect though.

Normal,

Pretty typical for a WS to feel what your FWW is feeling.

Try to keep up MC. I made the mistake and felt like we were good etc and she wanted to stop going. This time I made it clear I wanted to keep going and would settle for nothing less.

When push comes to shove she has agreed. She tells me the same thing that she either wants to be happy or be out. I tell her the door is open but she doesn't leave.

So go back to MC. Tell her the circular thinking doesn't work. You did something, I felt like something was going on, I snooped, I caught you, I snooped some more found out more details and you are resentful of the snooping. I am resentful I had to snoop and then found what I did.

Yeah I'm going to keep going to MC for a while; if things start getting good again maybe I'll just reduce the frequency. If we'd kept going maybe I would have had a clue that this was building in her. Man this is frustrating.

Norm,

""how that she has been spyed on she can't be comfortable in her own home.""

What is she still doing that makes her feel uncomfortable??

In an honest open marriage there is no reason for privacy except for bathroom duties and writing in a diary or journal.

Everything else should be transparent.

That she cannot get over your snooping should make you start snooping all the more!!

If you will notice, she got you to show her the keylogger and got you to take it off the computer.

Something sniffs like something is still going on. If your gut feeling says to snoop, trust your gut.

krk

Yeah, I thought about that krusht. I also think about how sure I was wrong when I snooped the first time. I also think about how if she wanted to snoop on me I would have *absolutely* *no* *problem* with it. It weighs heavily on my mind today.

normal I agree with krusht Transparency is the most important thing even minus an A.

With the MC yes you need to keep going and the Frequency thing might be right.

Ours said once a week, then once every two weeks then once a month then never.

I would say keep going to the MC.

Last night's date went really well. At the end she opened up a little. She asked how I felt about going out with a friend to a play and I told her it sounded like a great idea. Then she talked about how she needed some "space". Said that she needs some time to think about some things, to process some things. That she would like to do some things like go to a coffee shop alone. Then "its not that I hate you". Seems like there is a "but" missing from that statement.

Later that night I was thinking about the "I don't hate you" statement and told her it hurt and asked her what she needs to process. She dodged me and I ended up leaving it alone.

What to you all think? I'm considering two courses: another direct conversation, or go silent, drop the R talk and snoop...

Normal,

Get rid of the word snoop. You are not snooping you are verifying the truth by looking for facts.

You should not have to work so hard that it would even be considered snooping.

I called my FWW out this morning. She erases her call logs in her cell phone when she calls her aunt that hates me. This morning I said why do you erase your call logs after you talk to your aunt. She missed the last part and said I do it when I get bored. I said you get bored after you talk to your aunt.

She tried to turn it around on me. What I can't talk to my aunt? Why are you looking blah blah blah.

I don't care. When I can trust you I won't look. Until then you should have no problem.

She is mad at you because you snooped. Excuse me but she has now two affair on you. What is wrong with this picture?
You have every right to snoop. Many men would have left after the second affair.

I seriously doubt she wishes to go to a coffee shop alone and just drink coffee. I would be very wary.

Tell her that YOU DO NOT TRUST HER, what part of that does she not understand. To ****** with how she feels, she is the one running around being a loose woman. She should want you place a camera on her shoulder so that you can travel with her after what she has done.

We have now had two different very long but calm conversations about our current situation. The 'jist' of it is that she loves me but thats not enough; she doesn't feel comfortable or natural with me. She is trying to decide if she wants to remain married and she wants space. I told her I wanted to work on things but its her decision.

I can see how she would feel smothered. But this sounds like another version of I love you but I'm not in love with you.

[color:"red"] POJA your marriage behaviors

don't forget
both must be radically honest for POJA to work [/color]

Pep

I asked her last night if she felt uncomfortable when I show affection and she said "sometimes" to every one of these: hold hands, put arm around her, kiss, hug.

Should I be radically honest about the fact that I suspect she's becoming wayward again? I've been talking to her a lot lately and baring my soul for the most part but I have not mentioned my suspicion.

Whew, feeling pretty numb today. W repeated again today that "she's not sure". Said she was sorry but she's just not sure she wants to be married. Every time we talk I think its ended up with me "clinging". BLEAH! Seems like all the threads I follow here are headed for divorce too. Wonder if I'm next. Wrote a note to myself: no more R talk, never mention divorce or separation, DON'T PANIC!

Very poor sleep, lost 5 lbs this week, I gotta just relax.

Maybe you should remind her that you're not sure either, but you are willing to do the work to truly find out.

It's hard to concentrate on yourself and your actions because you are so busy wondering what WW is thinking, I know. Are you on AD's at all? Do you do any kind of exercise? Get up, get out, get moving and stop THINKING all of the time. The AD's helped me to sleep, so that I could relax.

In terms of affection, don't overdo it, but show what you feel. Don't speak so much how you feel.

I'm not on AD's but I do get a lot of exercise most weeks. Definitely gotta stop thinking and relax :-) I've thought about AD's a couple times but never went through with it and talked to a doctor. I've always been afraid to take drugs; I don't even usually take as an asprin for a headache. I think I'll look into it though.

Norm,

I read your thread and Sting's song starts playing in my head "If you Love somebody, set them free""...you know the one??

BUT, you really don't want to set her free, of course. Like, I almost want you to go to a dark Plan B, ya know, just to show her what she will be missing.

What if you just started TOTALLY concentrating on you? Start working out (or start working out MORE). Get some hobbies, take some classes, start fencing lessons...you know? Stop all R talk, no lovey dovey talk, try to take her or leave her.

But then you are playing into her hands if she does want to "go to the coffee house and drink coffee ""alone""".

How about plan A with an attitude?

It is a delemna. Without a commitment from her to you and the marriage you are twisting in the wind. And there has to be a reason for the non-commitment.

From what I have seen and read here when a spouse is requesting space or to be alone...that is not really the objective.

Stay strong. I guess take it day by day...and stay alert (snooping)

krk

AD's may help at this point. I, also, never really liked to take drugs; this is my first prescription for an ailment. I feel more able to process my thoughts and quiet things when I'm resting or sleeping. If you lose too much sleep, it will start to cause many more problems.

On the subject of going out alone to a coffee shop, well that's just CRAP, IMHO! Of course space is what she wants, and control and to do what helps her avoid. In the end, you have absolutely no control over her, but you are aloud to express your feelings on the subject. You may tell her that you are not comfortable with that situation, or that you do not trust her alone, and therefore wonder what may be going with her. NO LB'ing, just honesty, no need to wait for a response.