Jim
she breaks NC about every 3-4 weeks

have you noticed if this might correspond to her menstrual cycle ??? or not

*shrug*

Pep

It usually happens when she is really swamped at work, I have noticed that.

Right...when she's most stressed.

That's when most users reach for their drug of choice.

She needs to learn how to self sooth.

~ Marsh

Jim -

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. I have been (maybe still am) in your shoes. It's been a year, and my wife has yet to come up with a plan to establish and maintain NC (by plan, I mean what she will do to prevent contact).

Marsh is right in what she said. The recent contacts that my wife has had with OM (the ones that I know about for sure) have all occurred either when things were very tense between us, or when she was on the verge of falling apart.

It's up to you to decide how long you'll allow this to go on. I would advise you to not lay down any firm boundaries unless you're 100% willing to follow them up though...I made threats and more threats, but never followed through, so I became very much a paper tiger.

How long would it take you to move into Plan B, if you chose to do that? Have you given any thought as to what it would take?

If not, you might want to. You may reach a point where the next contact (or the next one, or the next one) is too much, and being able to move promptly into Plan B, without any warning, will remove you from the pain of her contact with OM, and might just be the beginning of her willigness to recommit.

Along that same vein, my then WW would call the OM when I'd lose it, and go into a tirade of Love Busting. I think the only exception to that was one night she sat at home and consumed the better part of a bottle of vino, and got weak and called.

Healingbird is exactly right about issuing ultimatums during this time as well. Any stand you may choose to take should be very well thought out!

My W continued contact (only she initiated) for about 4 months. OM wouldn't deny her calls, but he never called her after D-day. As I posted above, this is a really tough time. Hang in there...we'll help however we can.

SD

Jim,

With all the good things your wife said this weekend, how is she acting around the house tonight? What is she saying?

Well, on her way home she gave me a call that got me all riled up. She started saying that she wasn't happy and that she needed to search out what she needed to be happy. She said that she should be able to go to Boston (not by herself, but with a friend) to see if is somewhere where she might want to be to pursue her career. She had to bring up how I "made" her go to South Carolina after we graduated college because it was the only place I could find a job (she didn't have to and we weren't married yet), but she holds resentment towards me about that. She said that if she wants to get a job up there she's moving, and if I want to be with her, I have to move with her. I said it was wrong to take that job in SC without mutually agreeing upon it, but I can't change the past. I said it was a mistake, but all decisions from now on, we should make together. She said that was BS, and she could do whatever she wanted. I asked if it was okay for me to cheat on her because she did it to me. She didn't have a good answer. Then she said she screwed up, but I continue to screw up by checking up on her. Then she started up on the topic of space, etc. (By the way, there is no way that someone in her position with her experience would get relocation to move across the country. She wouldn't have enough money to move there before I got a job, and we can't leave our house that we just bought last year for another couple years because we would lose money on it. She is just lashing out and/or testing me. There is no way that we would move, but part of her thinks that moving would make her feel better even though that's what she thought when we moved from SC to St. Louis).

At this point, I was just emotionally spent, so I just went on the computer and started doing our taxes on Turbo Tax. An hour later, she asked me to watch the TV with her, so we watched an hour and a half of TV until we went to bed. In bed she was really nice to me and cuddled with me. I told her that she's not happy and I'm not happy so we should get to a MC. I said that we're going to be together forever, so we might start trying to find a way for both of us to be happy. She didn't respond, but I could tell that she was thinking about what I said. We're going to make it, it's just a question of how long is the dance going to last.

Oh, and I suggested that she see a counselor and insinuated that she may be suffering from depression. She of course dismissed that and said that I should get help because I was the one crying and visibly upset. I said that I was unhappy because she was hurting me. I asked her exactly why she was unhappy and she didn't have a good answer, so I left it at that to let her think about it.

Heard these exact words myself - old hat.



She still feels lost and is grasping to "find" her way out. Nothing makes her happy so why not move? Sure that will make it all better. You, I and a few people here know that's not true.



Right now she doesn't have an answer for anything. She is living day to day also. This is where you are the lighthouse and lead her back home. You know this, I know you know thie, you know I know you know this - yah know.


Jim, 2 weeks before my wife's fog lifted she was still getting house for sale sheets that are in front of homes. I found a few the other day and asked her if she wanted to go to a few open houses. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> She tossed them without a word. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I think the hardest part is that you (and I) learned from this site so we knew what to do and how to go about restoring our M, but our wives don't know the path back. This made the time it takes so much longer than we want it to be. Your wife is processing this the best she can and it takes so damn long for this to happen.

You know you will make it, but it is still very hard waiting for it.

Pulling for you Jim

One thing I would say to my wife when she talked about being unhappy is:

"I know you are not happy right now, but you will be happy again one day. We can get past this."

I acknowledged her pain/feelings and then reasured her that we would/could be better again.

One thing I did notice is that ever since exposure she has kept a CD with her resume on it and her invoice for her lawyer's visit (it was a free consultation) with his contact information in her purse. She put the CD back by the computer desk, and she threw away the lawyer invoice. I think she is actually resigning herself to staying with me and just is lashing out because she doesn't know if she'll be happy, doesn't want it to go back to the way it was, or wants it to be on her terms, not mine. Who knows what is going on in her head.

Jim:

I have been following your story for the last few weeks. Your current situation with WW wanting to move is very similar to what my situation was in December.

My FWW had already applied for a job in another state much closer to OM, made it past 2nd interview (down to her and one other person), was looking at houses/apts, and was all set to move right after the new year.

FWW kept saying that:
"She needed to move to be happy",
"She needed to be on her own and make her own way",
"She needed to have a job that she felt like she was making a difference in the world."

I on the other hand kept saying things like:
"We can (and will) be happy together if you choose to stay", or
"All I want is for you FWW to be happy, and you've noticed the changes I have made recently, but you're not letting yourself enjoy those changes. If you choose to stay and accept the changes that I have made, then we will happier than we ever were."

However, my FWW was only 'HEARING':
"If you go, you won't be happy.",
"You must stay bc that is what I (BH) think should happen."
"You (FWW) are making a big mistake if you go."

I had been following plan A since shortly after DDay, but I was still 'down' a lot, so it wasn't a perfect plan A.

It wasn't until I finally made the decision to 'let go' and accept whatever FWW wanted to do, and still be happy myself, that triggered the lifting of FWW's fog. By 'letting go', I don't mean that I had given up on the M, I still planned to continue with plan A, but I would be doing plan A truly for me (and possible long distance)...not just as a way to win FWW back.

Now, my FWW tells me that the day that I let go, that she had an epiphany. It wasn't just that the fog lifted, but because the decision to stay or go would be solely hers, she was finally able to "see" all the changes I had made, AND she said that all of the resentment she had been harboring for years just vanished.

I am not a MB expert, and what I did may not be 'part' of the MB program, so I might get flamed for posting this. But since your current situation seems similar to mine, I wanted to let you know what worked for me, and what my FWW says changed her mind.

Good luck, I am pulling for you!

Hey Jim,

It's been very quiet on your sitch for the last couple weeks, it appears. Is all well, I hope? Just checking in!

Alright, I'll update my situation.

Valentine's Day went fairly well. Roses, chocolate, and a teddy bear were delivered to WW's work. She called to tell me thanks. I picked up some Outback curbside to go and brought it back to the house. WW opened up her gift and loved it. It was a limited edition copy of her favorite book (the one she loaned to OM and called him to get back, but he hasn't returned it yet) and another one of her favorite books signed by the author. She said it was a very thoughtful gift and now she can start her own book collection of limited edition literary fiction. We cracked open a $40 bottle of cabernet sauvignon, talked, and watched TV. She did let me kiss her on the lips several times, but no tongue of SF.

She actually made a point of telling me yesterday that it was her time of the month, but I saw her take her BC pill in front of me. I called her on it and asked if she lied to try and prevent me from "trying anything" to which she responded "yes." When we went to bed she laid her head on me for about fifteen minutes and we just talked about stuff. She said that she didn't want to get intimate because she was "tired of hurting" and she said that "I probably know that feeling" to which I responded, "sometimes you have to trust the other person and just put yourself out there because the reward is worth the risk." I told her that if she put herself out there she wouldn't get hurt again, and that we were going to eventually reach intimacy again, it was just a question of when. I told her I'm willing to take my time, but she's just missing out on a lot of fun and happiness in the meantime.

I really think that I'm starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel. She really responded to the V-day gifts, she said they were REALLY thoughtful. I think that this will motivate her to start working through some of her issues so that she can start working on us again. Who knows, we are staying in a hotel a couple blocks from the St. Louis Mardi Gras celebration, so maybe there will be some intimacy this weekend. It's been over six and a half months without intimacy so I'm REALLY looking forward to SF again. I'll continue to keep everyone updated.

Hey man hope you get some <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

okay so your comment and age on the thread titled: SF with FWW (FWH) made me come read you story..... your last post was over a month ago.... so.... how is your W doing now?

WW is slowly coming around. Last contact was 8 weeks ago and she ignored OM's attempt to contact her 2 weeks ago. Lately she has been saying ILY and we have had some open-mouth kissing, but no tongue yet. We have just been trying to have fun. My WW started watching the CW show Veronica Mars this season (and she loves it), so I bought her the complete first season. Well, the networks have been running repeats the past two weeks, so we breezed through season 1 (15.5 hours) in one week, so we bought season two and now we're almost done with that. Other than that one the past three weekends we went to a murder mystery dinner theater at St. Louis' famous haunted mansion (the Lemp Mansion), went to a Blues hockey game and attended a private party afterwards where we got to hang out with the players, and went out on St. Patrick's Day with her sister for her sister's birthday.

She's very stubborn, so she is coming around SLOWLY (no SF and refusal to go to MC, read marriage books, or talk about our relationship), but she has stated that she is sorry for the A and wants to stay together. All in all, I can't complain too much.

the fact is that she is coming around.... i can understand your frustration with the lack of sf, but hey some open mouth kisses in 7 months.... thats pretty good..... we havent even gotten that far yet..... hang in there.

Hi Jim,

Just wanted to chime in and say I'm real glad your WS looks like she's finally coming around. Keep up the good work dude! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jimmy - how's it going????