To protect yourself, if you are going to contact him, send him a copy of the plan B letter with a note that if he is considering agreeing to your plan B conditions to call Steve Harley. Let Steve decide and work with him to see if he is truly willing to reconcile with you. Other than that, do not waver because your plan B is obviously getting to your WH.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your suggestion...I like the idea of leaving him a copy of the PBL (not sure I can find the original...it was so long ago..LOL.... but I have on hand a few very similar to PBL)....AND....how he can contact Steve as an option...

PLAN B seems to be really getting to him! ....but he is not proposing reconciliation at all... still strictly all about the boys and aiming for friendly co-parenting ... still wanting to cake-eat.... have access to me when he wants...and still have OW on the side....so I am moving towards.... a NO REPLY... although I do recognize it as some sort of 'reaching out' on the part of WS....

Anyway, these are some of the 'arguments' WS is using to 'get to me', and to get me do what HE WANTS (translated as best from... French!):

- I get the impression you want to 'spoil' the boys just because their dad is no longer home, or force them to choose
- THE TWO OF US (his emphasis) need to talk to each other so that the kids adapt well to us being 'separated', know that they are not responsible for our separation, and that we will continue to be there for them
- that we are 'united' in our decisions that concern them even though we are separated
- (here's a real doozer): I can assure you that OW does not interfere in any of my decisions concerning the boys.... so your fear of being part of triangle is unfounded(grrrrr!!!....how thick can the fog get?????)
- we have a lot of decisions to make about the boys, and they need to know that we can speak to each and it's not a war between us; it can't be a war between us as that would place the boys in a 'conflicting' situation, feeling obliged to take 'sides', particularly for DS11 (not sure why it would not be as much for DS16!)
- please get back to me as soon as possible

The reality is...I am not in a war....no powerstruggling is occurring... I am in PLAN B, I do not exchange with him 'directly', and I am very generous with the info. I provide him about the week the boys are with me to help with the continuity....

...what I do ask him is to respect my choice to not want to be in a relationship with a man that has chosen to lie to his wife and cheat on her... EVEN if he is the father of the boys...

Anyway.... I had a really big week...with a few things out of my 'comfort zone'.....dealing with boys' excitement with going back to school....DS16 getting a scooter and dealing with my fears about that!...the car breaking down and going to the garage.....my mom was up visiting (had to deal with many of her FEARS!) ........

so...looking forward to the long weekend (at least it is one up here in Canada)...and taking a break.

It's nice to have the Board to come to for a cyberspace 'shoulder to cry on'....
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, Lunamare. My Plan B is still continuing, and we were DIVORCED in December. The affair ended within 2 weeks of our divorce.

All together, the affair lasted for 4 years.

Hi B,

Thanks for dropping by...

Hanging in there...

....4 years!?!?!?!? ....I do not know about that!

...but WS can pull as many tricks as he wants.... not budging.... I will not be in any kind of relationship with a WS....I have now determined it to be a major BOUNDARY in my life....

I am happy to pass as much info. about boys as will be helpful... and I do want boys to be in a relationship with their dad... he is after all a very important person in their lives who cares very much about them... ... and I do want him to be someone they can go and be a resource when needed...and I don't put boys in a position where they have to choose.... and don't speak negatively about WS... (but actions do speak louder than words...boys know I will not 'speak' to their dad given his choices) .... obviously... boys would benefit much more were their parents in a relationship, working together, talking and discussing options, etc. but... that's just not what it is right now!

I did not think I was such a 'tough cookie'... and I get that WS is in pain... but he put himself there.... and he will have to get himself out of it!

...it has come to my attention that he has crying bouts and admits that the whole mess is his fault.... sounds to me symptoms of depression... and if so, he needs to get help... OR NOT! ....his choice!

AT least it sounds like you would still consider taking him back. I ran out of love and respect for my husband. He is alone now, and I'm continuing Plan B. And he still writes me long letters, which I toss in the trash, unread.

Believer,

Thanks for the update...I was wondering!

Yes I am.......at least for the moment and theoretically.... seeing that, as much as a WS can be, he is being financially responsible and doing his share in looking after the boys (we alternate one week each).... but I will only really know if I am ever faced with an actual 'choice' in the future.....

It helps that I don't 'cheat' by asking around about him either from the boys or from friends....so the less I know about him...the less I wonder about him.... the less 'brain' space I spend on him... the more I have to focus on MY life...

If I remember correctly your WS may have 'literally' drained the (love)bank by blowing away your joing funds... I am surprised that he is still writing to you since you are obviously not replying... and are in fact divorced.

Believer... has the divorce set you feeling 'free' to date?.... are you interested in it, or not? Is your experience with your WS making it more difficult to 'trust' another man?

Well...I have thought about a reply to WS...as an attempt to reach S!

...since I do think...if you knew WS... although 'strange'.... it is HIS WAY of reaching out...

I am right now 'sitting on a reply' that his words actually triggered...

Believe it or not, it is not a 'painful' trigger, it triggered back to memory one of Mimi's reply to her husband (or my version) when she put her house for sale....

Her WS had said to her something like 'what about US?'.... and Mimi said something like.... 'there is NO US anymore!'

Well...along the same lines.... if I still think it's a good idea tonight, I will send WS this reply of two sentences:

The 'TWO OF US' no longer exists (my truth...his reality check)

One could say that what remains is the....POTENTIAL...of a NEW 'TWO OF US'

...because I feel WS is so far gone in lalaland....he first needs to 'imagine' the possibility of a 'new two of us'.... before even considering the steps needed to get there...ie.... suggesting he contact Steve!

I like the first part.

The second is too vague...send him the pbl again.

Geesh, BR, I feel honored! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Just to be sure.... re «the first part»...do you mean the first sentence?....since there are only two...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

....or, are you suggesting I just ONLY send him the pbl.

...and I will take this opportunity to personally thank you and to let you know that I think very highly of your opinion and I greatly appreciate it, and that I have learned a lot from your comments on other threads, and so.... you can add me on your list of «fans»! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(edited to add: make that...your LONG list of «fans» <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />....right up there along with ML, Pep, Mimi....now I am going to get into trouble... like the oscar speeches....by surely forgetting to thank my hubby... and regret I ever started this 'edit'.....for the rest of my life...LOLROF <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

Luna - Yes, my ex blew all of our money on the OW and their affair. I don't think I went to Plan B soon enough, because I lost respect and love for him. I haven't talked to him for more than a minute in the last year. I'm not interested in what he is doing.

Now, other men........ I've been seeing some, and it IS a bit harder to trust. I run everything I'm told through my affair filter. But life goes on, and I don't let the past get in the way of the future.

Thanks B. and good luck.

Update.

Well...I attached a copy of PBL to WS's note about the 'need for THE TWO OF US to speak to each other for the sake of the boys'...... (not necessarily the original one....but one that repeated conditions of ending A and recommittment to family etc etc)... he got the 'reply' yesterday when he came to pick up the boys and the dog (I am never there for the pick ups)....

I suspect it was NOT what he had expected.... and I think that the boys may have become more 'vocal' towards their dad about their frustrations and pain of the consequences of HIS choices to their lives....particularly D11.... or WS may be coming out of the fog enough to now 'see' or 'hear' it better.... don't know....

...because he called me last night....and it was not an 'emergency'... it was about after-school arrangements for D11... I obviously did not have the 'conversation'... and calmly ended it by asking him to leave me a note or message should he need additional information.... (which I had already provided to him anyway...)

I don't know about WS....but I know that S must be hurting a lot to see the effect of his choices on the boys... the effect of his choices to his relationship with them... which have basically taken his focus away from our family and his role as a dad (no matter how hard me may try to provide them with the 'material' needs...he's not THERE for the boys...EMOTIONALLY).... his choices have destroyed our family.... the boys' sense of security and innocence.... it obliges them to go 'back and forth'..... the boys have a right to be as mad as ******.... but he doesn't want to see it... because he seems to want to blame me....my PLAN B...my not wanting to 'cooperate' with him in doing 'friendly' co-parenting.....WS wants me to 'fix it' and make it better...because he must be in pain.. it's not working out the way HE had planned it.... well...it's not up to me now, is it?

Hi Luna,

it's great to see how well you are doing. These long plan Bs are hard, but as Dr. H says, what better oprion do we have? We must still have hope that someday the WS will come out of the fog.

I don´t have contact with WH since my DDs are old enough to manage their own lives, and that's great for me because I still react very emotionally to any mention of him.

Have to run to work. Just wanted to give you a cyberhug!

cc

ccbis,

Thanks for dropping by!

I wonder sometimes if it would be better were WS not to have a reason to attempt 'contact' .... WS sounded extremely frustrated that I am choosing NOT to have any discussions with him... particularly for the boys' sake, of course! It must be causing major 'withdrawings' IF I have a lovebank account at all to begin with.

cyberhug back to you...

Update.

Need a bit of support from you guys right now.

Being in PLAN B can work both ways...as the BS, it helps me NOT to know what WS is up to....so I can focus on me and my life... but then again.... not knowing what's going on in the 'other camp' can set you up for 'surprises'....

Background info: a year ago WS moved into one (of three) apts we co-own..... just got an email saying that one of the tenants is leaving and OW is prepared to sub-let it and he hopes that I won't make any trouble (that would be the apartment just above his!)

I did answer WS and made it clear that as the co-owner I objected to having the OW as a tenant!

I am in total disbelief.....I cannot believe WS has the gull to ask my consent to putting OW in one of our apartments! ....Major Lovebank withdrawls.... MAJOR! ....but then... I should not be surprised...should I... when dealing with a WS!

I am totally upset and am trying really hard to keep my COOL!

Arghhhh!

I just so hate having a WS in my life....they can be soooo hurtful in their total self-centeredness!

....and can you believe OW willing to live in an apartment I co-own?!??.... I am sure they are planning to take over the whole block so that I would want nothing to do with it... and sell out! (my fear talking!)

Here's my FEAR talking....hoping that putting it out there will help!

- How can I, alone, stand up to the 'combined' force of two selfish human beings...WS and OW....working together? ...my friends think I should just 'let it go'...I know that they don't want to see the pain it will cause me...and want me to move on so don't expect to look nor find much support there, and I actually wonder now if they are right!

- I remember the pain of D-day and right after.....and my gut is telling me that a 'second round' is coming up.... and I am not sure I am ready for it!

- I don't know if I will have the strength....I fear I will not be strong enough...for me...for my boys.... where or where will I get the strength to fight this battle?

- I am forever 'linked' to this very selfish person (at least right now he is), who happens to be the father of my boys....and right now I wish I weren't..

- I expect WS won't take my non-consent well and will be attempting 'contact' even more....and will be taking a huge chunk of 'mental space' that I really need to keep my boat floating for me and my boys.....

- after two years of PLAN B I was feeling like I was starting to take control of MY life after the 'hit and run' effect of the A.... and now I feel like WS is planning another 'hit and run'....

- the 'unpredictableness' of WS....is making me AFRAID.... what oh what will he do next... what lengths will he take? ... and will I survive the hit?!

G-d...I wish I had someone I could run to...that could comfort me...

OK....I have re-read all of the above.... and now realize that it must be what some of you here refer to as 'my scared little girl' talking.... who I probably have not taken the time to comfort or protect properly... and is scared...very scared....

How can I help her? How can I face the 'fear'...and do IT anyways?

I do feel alone right now...yet I know soooo many of you here have been and are there, too.

Lunamare,

Don't stress out over this. Just say "no" and let this go. If it persists, get a lawyer involved to keep her from moving it. It is just like any BS in plan B having to fight during divorce proceedings. Don't let your WS get to you (I know, easier said than done).

Hi Jim,

Thanks for replying. I will try and read up on your thread... I am intrigued...so very young...and in spite of the numerous broken N/C..in recovery!... my hat is off to you...

Well... I am pleasantly surprised.... maybe writing it down helped... or maybe because I have been on the Board for over 2 years and have 'read' about how 'low' a WS can go...and really was not THAT surprised.... it continues to be part of their plan to 'legitimize' their A... and 'erase' the beginnings... but that can never be....

I guess my biggest fear is that I end up being a 'basketcase' like I was after D-day... paralyzed enough not TO ACT...AND JUST DIDN'T WANT THAT.... but it doesn't seem to be so... I was 'destabilized' but not 'knocked down'....

...because.... I am home... and am continuing 'business as usual'... I have bounced back 'very quickly'.... I am encouraged...... I have managed without him for over 2 years...so why not....for good!

I have in no uncertain terms replied to WS that I will NOT CONSENT to sub-letting to OW.... and let them figure out what to do next.... and let the shoe drop where it may!

I guess I have gotten better at taking care of myself... better at knowing that I CAN say 'NO' to WS... and go from there....

What I do know is that OW gave up a 27-year M and a big waterfront house for WS.... and is 'retiring' next summer... and I guess wants a better 'grip' on WS.....as they will no longer work together.... and...is she worried about something? ...because she's with a man who 'defends' being able to cheat on one's partner...uhmmmmm....

I am just so glad that it is not AFFECTING me as I thought it would.... I was seeing my whole weekend SHOT... but it just isn't so.... it just isn't so... WOW!

Luna, I'm with Jim. Say no, and leave it at that.

It's a trigger. Just try to minimize it. What can you do to separate yourself from it?

I'm in favor of leasing OW the apartment.

Here are the terms:

A 10 year lease.

At $10,000 per month.

Payable to Lunamare exclusively. In cash only.

If she is one day late, there's a 10% late fee.

And one more condition: She can never have contact with Lunamare's husband again.

She can go ahead and sign in blood, if she'd like.


SB