In your writings, Luna, you often refer tho the fact that your WH wants to friendly co-parent then say you're not interested. Would you clear that up for me please?

My general feeling about friendly co-parenting is that it is in the best interest of the children. I understand Plan B and having no contact but at this point I would imagine there is more harm being done to the children than if you progressed to D where you might feel the friendly co-parenting would be beneficial.

Hi LG,

Thanks for the feedback....



Yes...I have thought about that, too....gives them a reason to start 'living together' since I did not consent to renting OW apt.

It's important for me to make decisions that I believe I can sustain... and I don't know if I have the stamina to take your approach.....

Nams,



...even if the D happens...I will remain in PLAN B.... I intend to continue and do communicate to WS all the necessary info. I feel he needs to have about the boys... I just don't see how I can be 'friends' with WS.....

...I chose PLAN B because a WS's 'reasoning' can be all over the place.... and took a lot of energy from me that I needed and need to do my part of the parenting....

...I have to admit...getting what looks like 'opposing' feedback is confusing a bit to me.....

...I am really having a hard time deciding what I want, need and can do.....sorry!

Luna, after having invested this much time in your plan B and having done it so well, I would schedule something with the Harleys before doing anything different.

SD,

Thanks for the suggestion, I may just do that....

In the meantime I have contacted a lawyer...and have made an IC appointment... and called some of my friends....for support.....

...I have the icky feeling that a 'storm' is coming....and I need to get ready!

WS and I communicate the needed information for the boys and finances by email... (simply because I don't know anyone who would be prepared to be an intermediary for us)... and so far....except for the odd occasion... when WS proposed that we meet....which request I either did not reply or repeated PBL.... we have not strayed too much from 'facts' about the boys and finances...

In one of the latest 'fact' communication....he added the bit about how he hoped I not be an 'obstacle to OW renting the apt above his seeing that the tenant has decided to leave'....to which I categorically answered that I would not consent to it....and personally informed by phone the OW just to be sure (not knowing how and when WS would tell her)!

...the other shoe has in fact fallen.... and WS is 'furious' about it, to say the least....particularly that I dared to contact OW!.... and did in fact say at one point: 'well....do you then want us to live together?... thought you were against that' (no surprise there!) ....because at one point I did tell him that I did not agree to his exposing boys to OW....even though in reality I could not legally force him not to...

....I used the blah blah blah technique (saying blah blah blah out loud while reading email)... to put distance between myself and the his 'words'... I find it quite effective.... the essential was that he intends to consult about legalizing our separation, mentions divorcing.... and hopefully that it could be done through mediation and not have to pay any lawyers....

I will wait and see what the lawyer I am consulting says about that.... but I will not 'mediate' anything, personally, with WS... I will want to be 'represented' and for now my decision is to ask for custody for the boys.... with visitation every other weekend for WS.....I will see what the lawyer says about that...the laws here, WS's rights, and go from there....

Again.... I know that many here may find my way of 'processing' very slow....but since I am responsible for the consequences of whatever I choose to do...it is what 'grounds' me... and what helps me, to mentally prepare myself for the worst, and be and feel strong each step of the way!

Edit: and the letter I was 'contemplating' for WS?...

...I will wait to speak to lawyer first.... and if she recommends mediation... I don't see any need to give letter to WS....it will play itself out at mediation, with lawyer's advice....

...bumped for Lexxy.

Luna,

I admire your strength of will, but it does seem like it is time to lay down the armour. You fought the good fight, did everything that you at this point in time could do.

It seems like you are looking for others to make up your mind, or provide info/facts that support what you should do. My impression in cyber world is that you have made up your mind, but you don't want it to be so. Sometimes we have to accept that we cannot bring about an end or conclusion that we very much want. It is hard to recognize that we don't have that control.

But you can move forward with positive steps that support you and your boys. When you start to think about WH and what he thinks, picture a stop sign, replace it with a family photo of you and your sons. Start thinking about you more that you think about him.

You are a strong person, you will succeed. I think this current thread is actually uplifting, it is bringing about your coming into yourself and your own power.

You go girl, your future is yours to write.

lunamare...

I have followed your thread from your first arrival here, and posted some to you early on. You have been in Plan B, albiet without an intermediary, for about 2 years.

Now your WH is trying to win your acceptance or blessing of the A, in leasing the other half of the duplex where WH lives to the OW. Who knows how many ulterior motives he might have for such an action? It could just be a simple as it looks, to fill a vacancy for an empty rental, and bring he and OW to a situation where they are more geographically compatable.

However, it could be that he's ready to make a move, if for no other reason, to test the waters with you for some reason. It appears that the cake-eating position he's been in for these two years (yes, that does mean you have been meeting "some" of his EN's over this time period), that there is a need for some movement in the whole situation.

Could it be that OW is looking for more committment? Could it be your H is having to capitualate some to keep "both" of you on the hook? Could it be that your WS has decided to make the R with the OW more formal and less secretive, perhaps even as far as pushing lunamare to an action?

It's hard to tell, viewing from afar, but if you wish to send a clear message to your WH, the lawyer route is the one to take. File for the LS and ask for all your lawyer thinks you can get, and more. Let the WS get a good, up-close and personal look at the consequences of his actions.

You still have the power in this arrangement, except for commandeering him to return. Do you even want him back now? You have expressed doubts in some of your latest posts. He may have been in the wayward state of mind for so long that he know longer knows who he was before. You, on the other hand, are as strong as you've ever been. We have witnessed your tremendous growth over the past 2 1/2 years.

Question is... "what do you want?" The world is your oyster right now, and you can choose your future. Except, perhaps whether your WS is a part of it, or not, but only by his choice. How long do you think it prudent to allow your life to be controlled by his actions?

This post is not so much to give advice, as it is to have you look at the big picture, and consider your options. You will have to be the ONE that decides what is next, and you will have to make do with your decision.

My only suggestion is that you begin to protect yourself from WS's actions, should he decide to just go ahead and least the other apt. to the OW. Have your financial stability protected by the LS agreement, and make WH's life a little more complicated.

You do not have to make a quick decision about wanting him back or not in the foreseeable future, given your circumstances. That can be done well after you protect your finances, and the custody of your kids.

Best wishes,
SD

Still haven't read closely but you definitely need a LS AGREEMENT for your PROTECTION...

I know PLAN B has lasted 2 plus years but how long has the A been going on?

Hi Nabohio & SD,

Thanks for your posts...

I am getting ready for the 'next step'.... even though it may not be what I wanted....but NOW I know I will be OK....

Hi Mimi,



From what WS told me...it started in the Fall of 2004... D-day was over the X-mas holidays of 2004.... WS moved out in the summer of 2005.... WS and OW are still not 'officially' living together.... I am not sure why....as they are being 'openly' a couple....and boys have been exposed to OW....

Since so many have already said what I was thinking, I will only talk about the possibility of divorce.

It sounds like you may be ready for this to be over. If so, I would get an LSA in place immediately, regardless of whether you file for D or not. This document will make things legal, and drive home the idea that divorce will be very much the same (in some states, however, you have to file for a D in order to divvy the assets up.)

I think you have done all that you can to hang on for recovery. I would make no more decisions with your WS in mind; all decisions should be based on what is best for you and your children.

I hope you can find your solution soon. I know it must be very stressful to be in the midst of this situation.

Hi SL,

Thanks for dropping by...

The difference between after D-day and now... is that I know I will be OK... I am just not looking forward to the pain... because I know it will be painful....

...but I am so thankful for PLAN B...because it did give me the 'relief' and protection I needed from WS.....it did MAJOR damage control...and I recommend it highly for all newbies that need to go...THERE...

...and I now also remember how hard it was making the decision to go to....PLAN B.... cut my ties with someone I had been sharing over 20 yrs of my life, the father of my boys.... it was the best decision...but it was also very HARD to make.... and so...this next step I need to take is very much similar.... it will be hard... and I know I will do it... it's just not going to be....EASY! ...I know that, too.

Are you going to consult with the Harleys? The advice from the board is pretty scattered. Get it from the real pro.

SD,

...I guess just to be sure...I should consult... although I am not sure what he could add to the mix...I do need to consult a lawyer....and split assets.....because I do not want to be put in the position of still 'owning' a property where OW lives in...

..so...I know....WS may win the battle... but ALL involved will have lost the war, as far as I am concerned!

...I am still struggling with a lot of mixed feelings... I see myself feeling relieved after the legal paperwork... but it will also be very very sad....

...I need to work on changing my perspective...see it as an opportunity.... like getting rid of something old which makes room for something new....or something like that....

Luna;

Have you perused Lilsis's thread?

It seems to me like you are grieving or experiencing loss.
But maybe you need to think more about what you are feeling.

Because it seems to me that you are already living the new reality that you are fearing. So maybe you just need to process this.

What will change if you pursue a separation or divorce?
Why are you waiting for WH to make a decision?

I think Lilsis has been doing a lot in terms of "processing" her losses, and maybe thats where your struggle comes from....

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with the advice to talk to Steve Harley.

FYI: Steve advised me to obtain a Legal Separation Agreement to PROTECT myself and CHILDREN from my WH as well as from the OW...although I had NO INTENTIONS of pursuing obtaining a DIVORCE...so obtaining a LSA does not necessarily mean that you are planning DIVORCE...

This is MY DEAL..I didn't plan on pursuing a DIVORCE unless I EVER got to the point of wanting to date/pursue another relationship...

I made it clear to my H that he would have to DIVORCE me..although I did get the LSA...See what I mean?...

LEGAL STUFF is all..the PAPER became useless once we reconciled..but from a LEGAL point of view..I was PROTECTED...I ASKED FOR LIFETIME SPOUSAL SUPPORT and he agreed to it..HOW ABOUT THAT FOR A GODDESS MOVE????? ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to GAIN his RESPECT of you and to maintain your own SELF-RESPECT...

I got my LSA with no intention of filing for divorce. I was protecting myself and my kid, because I had NO idea what may or may not happen.

Hi Lexxxy,



I think you are right, Lexxxy.... I basically took a 'break' in PLAN B..... because I was overwhelmed by the emotions and feelings after D-day....I will need to 'revisit' all of them and process them.... right now.... it feels like I have a big mountain to climb.... and I need to break it down a bit.... and not be overwhelmed, and process.... like a ball full of knots.... need to handle a knot at a time....right now I just see a bunch of knots...and don't know where to start...

"What will change if you pursue a separation or divorce?"

Good question... the likelihood of a M recovery will be reduced


"Why are you waiting for WH to make a decision?"

..because he has chosen to not 'legalize' his 'choice'... this leads me to believe that he is not fully committed to the choice of OW and of leaving his family.... but then again.... it has suited him fine...until maybe my refusal to consent to OW being a tenant in a property that we co-own....

I will check out Lilsis's thread....to see how she's processing things...

Hi Mimi and SL,

I have a meeting with a lawyer next week.... I will ask re laws here....I am certainly open to start out with a LSA... because I do not want a divorce... and if an LSA will be enough to me protect legally....it will be fine as a first step...

OTOH....at this point....WS may go the divorce route... and I will be fine with that, too....if it's what he wants.... at least his intentions will be 'clearer'.....and that's all I am asking.... that he make up his mind.... and after 2 years of 'testing the waters' with OW....he may be ready to decide....and I may be ready to move on..... but we won't be 'friends'.....

I have just reread my post....BOY...I can't believe it's SO LONG....so I am just giving you ALL a head's UP about it:

I have been unable to sleep....

...because I think I need to SHARE what I consider a MAJOR turning point....FOR ME....

...by a very strange turn of events....WS needed to do some work in one of our tenant's apartment (upstairs from me)....(being co-owners...he still handles all the tenant maintenance... except for the apartment where I live....)

This had been his third day....and I had managed to not cross paths...up until last night....

In the afternoon, I happen to have a very long conversation, and had a chance to 'share', with about the only friend that I have that understands MY POSITION....(and understands MB principles as close as anyone could not knowing about MB!) .. it gave me a chance to 'gather my thoughts'.....while offering a lot of support...

...I clearly EXPRESSED how seriously as was considering to LEGALLY cut ties with WS...whether he 'got it' or NOT.... which FOR ME.... is another MAJOR step...

After that, I went for parents' night at my DS11's school...to meet his teacher.... but really...I did it to show DS11 'interest' and support for what he does.... because I didn't need to go....his older brother had had the same teacher...the same program....

...AND it's the school where WS met OW while working as a 'resource' professional... where OW still works (her last year).... and meant my CONFRONTING a MAJOR trigger...

I decided to do it...take it as chance to settle a 'score' with the school as a SYMBOL... no longer going in there with feelings of SHAME and EMBARASSMENT..FEAR of crossing paths with OW (which was highly likely)...

...and to help me outbalance my INNER turmoil.... I decided I would be a real 'knock out'.... and walk into THAT school...with my head held up high....showing great confidence... but happy that DS11 would be moving on... shortly I would be free from A VERY MAJOR trigger in my life....

...sorry for taking so long.... I need to point out my state of mind.... I was looking PROUD... feeling CONFIDENT... looked GREAT...

..all of sudden....at the meeting when someone else left early, I took advantage of it and left as well... I had stayed enough to meet my purpose...

WELL...what TIMING!

....as I am walking back home (a couple of blocks away).... I see WS just about to LEAVE.... he sees me walking towards him... I believe I said a quick 'Hi'....making it clear I would not 'engage' in any conversation with him....

...when home...feeling proud...to have survived well my MISSION... WS walks in the back of the kitchen... tries to 'engage' me in conversation... using as usual...as a reason, a discussion about the boys... this time about DS16....

...in a very cool...calm... and collected way.... I basically took the time to repeat more or less verbally what I had already stated in PBL....and on few occasion, remind him of it a few times already....

Now...I can't remember the exact words nor the order of our exchange....but I was totally surprised by my CALMNESS and CLEARNESS of the few sentences I addressed to him:

... it has given me PEACE to do so...because I knew that one of the things that would help me to 'move on' is that WS...'get it'.... that his choosing OW meant choosing as a consequence....sacrificing his R with the mother of his boys... before, knowing that he wasn't 'getting it' seemed to 'HOLD ME BACK'.... wanted to at least have WS REALIZE, hopefully...the gravity of his actions... (and is it really what he wanted!??)

More or less our exchange (translated as best as I can...as French is our language of communication!)

WS: ....We need to talk about...(incident with DS16) and what do you think about it?....and by the way....I wrote to you...why haven't you answered....you need to reply to me!

ME: Well...you can talk to DS16 about it...

Look...WS....as I have already said to you in writing a few times...

....This is the thing...we chose to marry....and fidelity for me was an essential element of our relationship....and I trusted you to respect it....

...you chose to place a 'third person' between us... it was your choice to do so....and as a consequence....I choose not to be in a R with you...I will not 'exchange' with you...nor see you or engage in a conversation with you...

WS: ...but I don't want to be in a R with you.... I just want us to talk.... it's been two years.... when are you going to start talking to me again? ....we HAVE to talk...

ME:....no we don't.....

...I agree with you...that our boys are losing out on having their two parents collaborate closely together to raise them ...OTOH.... as I have been doing so far....it is my intentions to inform you, in writing, about anything I find 'essential' for you to know.... but I will not meet with or discuss anything with you, given your choice to place a 'third party' between us...

WS: ...so as long as I am in a R with OW....you will not 'see or speak to me'? ...in TOTAL DISBELIEF.... (...with as much as a look of being impacted as I was on D-day....when I realized that my WS had 'cheated' on me.... and had been 'lying' to me....for a minute, I think WS realized....this was SERIOUS... it was not a little 'disagreement'.... and it's not about BS coming around sooner or later!)

ME: ...that's right... and now....I have said what I needed to say.... and I will be going to the other room...

WS: no..no...don't bother.... I was leaving anyway (...I believe he NEEDED to leave....)

...I always thought WS was not 'taking' me seriously... not 'getting' the seriousness of his actions....he demonstratead feelings of entitlement over me....and that, INSPITE of his choices, I had no 'right' NOT to talk to him...

Now I feel that I have come as close as a BS can.....to having a WS 'get it'.....

...what will be will be.... I am at peace with myself....

I do believe WS seems to have gotten the fact that the day he chose a R with OW.... he was actually chosing at the same time....to end his R with me.....

...OF COURSE...leading up to whatever state of mind I was in.... WAS the unmeasurable CONTRIBUTION by this Board since the beginning....but particularly in the last few days....

...and I want to thank you ALL....from the BOTTOM of my heart....

(((((((BOARD))))))))

Thank you...thank you....thank you.....and a million thank yous.....

Now....I will attempt to get some 'shut eyes'...(yeah....right!)