Hey Luna.. don't think I've posted to you before, but it sounds like you and I are in similar headspace about our WS's.

Certainly the caretaker in the both of us hates to watch our waywards head down the path of certain destruction. We -want- to protect them from the consequences of that choice, but in this instance we cannot.. that ability.. that responsibility of a spouse has been removed from us by the very person who asked us to play that role in their lives.

It's hard to watch someone we love destroy themselves.. Plan B must be such a blessing for you in that it will allow you to either turn away from the sight of your WH crashing and burning on his own.. or allow you the strength to wait until the fire dies to see if there's anything there in the ashes to rebuild upon.

I admire your strength, and your resolve. Keep your chin up and know that you are walking the path of righteousness.

Hi Chai,

Not to worry....I actually surprise myself at how well I stay the course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...DARK DARK DARK!



Oh...I KNOW it's shakey in affairland.... WS is just too proud to admit it....and wants to be....RIGHT! ....but at what cost??? ....that's where....denial comes in handy!

I hope you are doing well....I will check up on your thread for an update.

Take care.

Hi James,



You got it! ...out of our hands! ... hard to accept WHAT IS, isn't it?...that WS's life is OUT OF OUR CONTROL! ...but then the good news is....we DO HAVE control over....OURS!

...the challenge for a BS is to rise above the BS fogland long enough to make use of our judgement....and choose between.... detaching, if need be....or burn along with WS!

For me, SELF-CARE and the sense of responsability to MY BOYS played a BIG role in my decision-making...it is where I get the strength to stay in PLAN B and not be tempted by WS manipulative ways to get ME to do what HE WANTS solely for his NEEDS....without considering MINE! ...because MY LIFE is just as much OUT OF HIS CONTROL.... as his is out of mine!


I know.... I know... but unfortunately, that is not the WS perspective....to them...the A is seen as a life-saver....but unfortunately for them, they either do not consider...at what cost....or....don't care about the cost! ....but reality hits hard....and sooner or later... WS will have to pass by the...cashier...and pay up!

...so the one 'sane' option left open to a BS is.... to detach from all the craziness of an A .. and offer WS the chance to get back on board should WS choose to want to do the work!

...in a nutshell....PLAN B!



....more importantly, PLAN B allows BS to detach enough....to SEE that life can be GOOD....with or without WS in it! ...for me, that is the most effective part about PLAN B... because in BS fogland... we can't imagine being happy again unless WS is part of it! ....NOT TRUE! ...as that is just as much of an illusion as the A...and part of the healing process that happens if a BS sticks long enough with PLAN B...


...uhmmmm...I don't know about that....if in the chaos of an A, the BS manages to get to a place where a minimum of a 'clear mind' state is possible.....

between 'damage control' (PLAN B) or continued contact with a WS....it really is....as I see it, a no-brainer.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />!

I know...I know...easy to say....hard to do! ...but as many of us are proving here.... IT IS.....DOABLE... LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey Luna,

I'm going to keep looking to you for encouragement. Plan B was great at first, but now that the newness of my condo and newness of my job have worn off a little, I seem to be in a little slump. Somedays wondering how I got here, why I did it, is it worth it etc. The lonliness is starting to set in. Coming home at night to an empty place is starting to get to me.

So is this normal? Did you experience any of the same thing? I'm thinking that it's all part of the rollercoaster ride, and I know it takes time, but some days are worse than others. I just try to keep really busy and keep my mind off of it.

You do so well at this!!

Hi CL,

....if you are feeling it...it's all normal! I try NOT to question my feelings....I try NOT to deny them... I DO try to use them as....CLUES! ...wanting to provide us with some information! ....I see my feelings as my...FRIENDS!


So???....how do plan on...spicing it up? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />(remember...the only thing off limits to you since you are not D and have yet a lot of 'emotional' ties to WS, given the length of your M and the trauma of being part of a triangle, as it would not be a HEALTHY choice FOR YOU yet...is an intimate R with someone else...psssssttt...btw...don't be surprised if along the way...at some point...you might have to deal with......the missing the 'sex' part...LOL : <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!)

Seeing that PLAN B frees up a lot of time...LOL.... I tried to take advantage of the situation....got to know better and do things with my old friends.... tried to widen my circle of friends...BTW... making NEW friends is good, people not used to only seeing us as part of a couple, is excellent.... because they don't know WS... it's easier for the subject NOT to come up...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />!


All normal, CL...you are taking stock of and re-evaluating your life... that's actually good...this is a major turning point in your life...and it is a good time to ask yourself questions....what directions can you, could you see yourself take.... look at this as an 'opportunity'.... a 'white page'.... my only suggestion is that you...take your time... no rushing....and only consider 'lightbulb' ideas....that stir up a 'hidden' passion in you!

...in my case, being in PLAN B, helped me take advantage of travel opportunities at work....and I just loved it!



Well then... time to change that! ... in my case...for over two years...the hardest part for me was the week the boys were with WS (now DS17 no longer stays at WS's)... my big house felt really really empty.... so.... I decided ...that the first thing I would see as got in the door is a collage of my beautiful two boys growing up.... it always always puts a big smile on my face! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I also started to not go home directly from work... by taking a detour to see a movie... I love seeing movies....by myself! ... or get that 'something' picked up... and of course.... I always come home to my MB Board friends! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


CL....TOTALLY normal.... and keeping busy is a very good plan.... and the biggest challenge you will have, at first, is how to stay FOCUSED on the present....as thoughts will tend to want to go back to the past...WS...the future... STICK with the present and your plans....FOR TODAY! ....and change the thought PATTERNS!



I don't know about that...but certainly...like anything....the more you do it...the better you get at it... and I have been at this for quite awhile...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />!

Just keep telling yourself....that it will....GET BETTER!

Thanks Luna. Sometimes it's hard to believe that things will get better, but I try to look back at how bad I was a few months ago. I'm definitely a little better than before.

I like the travel idea. I do love to travel, so maybe I'll plan a trip this Spring. Part of the slump right now is probably the brown ugly Winter landscape. It's depressing. I can't wait for Spring!

Please be warned....this post was not meant to be long, but it is.... and just a reminder....I am in PLAN B....so.... it's PLAN B drama....meaning....pretty boring if I do say so myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ...I reread it....and I do find that I have waaaayyyy too much time on my hand, and I better get myself some new hobby to keep me busy!

---------------------------------------------

I seem to use my thread partly as a journal, as a way of 'talking to myself', and because overall I find it helpful to just 'put things out there' and share it with all of you... like...OFF my shoulders....and OUT in cyberspace....

Since plan D has been initiated, I feel sometimes I am trying to ignore some...feelings of anxiety... and I am wondering why... so I just thought I would 'turn on the light' on the boogyman and see...

In my part of the world...it's income tax return time, property tax time, and...although necessary....since the Fall, because of plan D, I have added the cost of the services of a lawyer which is an extra, quite expensive, 'unknown' cost to my budget....

...in addition, of course, to the reality of now actually going through the process of 'separating' our assets of over 20 years... and the additional 'unknown' of what will the financial consequences be?....and what kind of a change will it mean....at the day-to-day level?

I administered more or less the family finances, and I liked to plan ahead, but WS and I were each other's backup...and decisions were taken 'in consultation'

Now that I am really on my 'own' financially...it's quite new for me facing 'unknowns' ALONE..... (and I would like to function without counting on back-up possibilities from family...not because they wouldn't want to help...in fact I am pretty sure my parents would give me the shirt off their back if I asked them to...which is really why I don't want them to know of this little constant stress factor that I am dealing with)

I get the idea that I am now 'financially' on my own....and I guess a little stress from that is quite normal....

OTOH.....I am a little surprised....seeing that I have overcome so much already.... why I don't seem to have the confidence...that I will be OK whatever the outcome of the D.... and that I will be able to DEAL WITH IT...instead of having this shadowy, constant sense of anxiety that I really don't like.... although probably it is quite normal.... seeing that I AM facing 'unknowns' afterall ...and for the first time (after 20 yrs)... I will be REQUIRED to deal with it on my own... but I really would like to NOT be wasting any energy on this any earlier then until it's time to....

...besides...it should help seeing so many of you have OVERCOME the process.. why wouldn't I?

...I also tend to consider the 'worse' scenario....just to avoid being surprised...like, I won't be able to keep my home... but I no longer think this solution is worth the anxiety it creates in the meantime....because it just scares me without any need to....not yet, anyway!

..let's see, I have a good credit rating...my job is not threatened in any way (although I may be working with someone new shortly)....and should I have to borrow...well, I will.... what is the problem?.... because it's new for me, I guess.... and probably because I cannot yet ACT on it until some of it starts to become more 'known'.....

OK.....we will see if this does the trick.... in the meantime... I will try to think of ways to 'increase' my 'financial cushion' if I can... to soften the fall....if need be!

...uhmm...I guess I would like to find a way to not deny the fact that maybe some adjustments will be necessary as a result of the D, and is probably healthy not to lose sight of that, but I don't want to WASTE energy on that more than I have to! ...uhmm.. again...as always...

....looking for the balance!

oops....I am actually seeing the feeling...rising....

the FEAR... that the emotional and psychological wound created by D-day....will be re-opened on and off during this plan D process....and that it will HURT like ******...

the PAIN...of seeing M 'legally' end...my family 'legally' broken up... and I didn't want that.... but I can't do anything about it...but, most of all, seeing WS actually allowing all of this to happen to us

....this time around, though...KNOWING that what you FEAR you CREATE... I hope to handle this better..... and CREATE something else instead....

...this time around....I know NOT to focus in the FUTURE... but instead, FOCUS on the PRESENT....

... and some you will not believe it, but PLAN B looks like a piece of cake to me right now compared to D <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />... and to think...like many of you here.....way back when, PLAN B scared me to death!

SO...I apologize for the long post... know that it has helped me immensely! ....the cat has been let out of the bag! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I will now get my butt off the chair and go bake a cake with DS12....and be grateful to have had another day on this beautiful unpredicable journey called...LIFE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If you got this far....you deserve a hug!

(((((((((((((((((((((((MB comrades))))))))))))))))))))

Is anybody here familiar with the works of Marshall B. Rosenberg and NVC...nonviolent communication?

I must be realllly detaching....

...because tonight I don't particularly care what WS is THINKING, DOING or with WHOM....

...'I'... HAVE the pleasure of knowing that I have two beautiful boys in the house sleeping in their rooms...know that they are safe... who look up to me, and count on me, to 'be there' for them... and I WILL...with all my heart!

...'I'...sleep well at night! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I know I won't always feel like this...so....I am savouring... the moment... and hope there will be more and more of...these moments!

Geeeshhh....it's about time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Luna, girlfriend, you have nothing to worry about. Look at you - in Plan B for almost 3 years!! You can take care of yourself and will be fine. Don't fret the financial thing. As Ace says "it's only money" and you can make more of it.

I always handled the family finances too, and I'm finding that it is no different on my own. No, I don't have anyone to consult with anymore, but then I don't have anyone to tell me NO that I can't spend that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And if you can't keep your home, go to a place that you can keep. Our house sold and I ended up in a condo which is actually better than my house in many ways. And believe it or not, I am now able to spend more money than I did before this seperation. In the long run, my net worth is going to take a slug, but that isn't something I can control. My goal is to build it back up again.

Yes, we will have to make adjustments because of the D, but millions have done it before us, so give us credit and say that we can do it too. You have a job, I have a job, we will keep working and earning a living. And we will both keep saving for an unexpected job loss or illness. We will both get insurance to cover the unexpected.

The D is a big scary animal for me too. It is for anybody. You have your parents to support you, so count that as a blessing. I really have no one except an older brother.

So, you will be fine. Look down the street. There is always someone living on less than we are. They survive and we will too.

Hi CL,

Thanks for dropping by...



...and thanks for the reminder...it's funny how, at one level, one can 'intellectually' know all of this... and yet...I guess at an emotional level....not be so convinced! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



I know, CL....and I am sorry, because on top of it, you have your issues with your DD to handle, too...



Yes...I know that, too....I guess we're all looking for some assurance....where there is none.... the future? ....three years ago I would have never guessed I would be where I am now!

Maybe some of the lack of confidence comes from not having had to OVERCOME something this BIG before...like the breakup of my family... and which I didn't.. and still don't want...you know what I mean?

....because NOTHING in my life compares to, or prepared me for, this big a MOUNTAIN to climb!

...but I do hear the little voice telling me that...'you will be OK'...I just have to give it a microphone... or listen more to my friends...they are ALL convinced, not even surprised, that I AM DOING and WILL BE OK!

...and I guess...all of us are here and come here to do a bit of that....to encourage and remind ourselves that.... we will be OK! RIGHT?!?!?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Luna,

We WILL be OK. We have no choice, really. Have you ever heard of anyone who died because of it? I haven't.

Once when I was little, my mom's friend had two little white dogs and one died. I remember her saying that the other one died one month later from a "broken heart." Of course I thought literally a "broken" heart.

I think about that story a lot because there are days where I think I'll die from a broken heart. I don't know how you get over this. I read about the lasting scars from divorce, so I don't expect to get over it. Ever. But, I really don't think that I'll die. I don't think that you will either. I think as time goes on, the pain will be less and less, but will never go completely away.

And we will be fine because we want a good life for ourselves and our families that are still with us.

I know, CH.



I agree with you... I know we won't die from this....

...sometimes I just get tired of that 'nagging' sort of pain that's not too painful but yet always....there!

...it's how to accept that there was be life before an A....before D...and life after..... it's different.... a new 'normal' sprinkled with various number of daily 'triggers' which, with time, we will learn to focus on less and less....

...and we are one among so many.... faced with all sorts of traumas in their lives....

...it comes down to learning the necessary coping skills to 'deal' with whatever is OUT there and OUT OF OUR CONTROL...which we are trying to do... so that we can continue to appreciate what LIFE can offer us.... because...if we look hard enough... we can always find something to be thankful for....

Thanks for your suppport, CL, I really appreciate it.

Hi everybody,

With plan D in process.....I am having to deal with my anxiety level....going UP <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />...knowing that I am involved in legal proceedings with a WS... and being UNCERTAIN of WS's actions/reactions.... feeling vulnerable??!! maybe... because in fact....I AM...until the process is over!

...hate to say it...but you can get kinda of 'comfy' in PLAN B... but....plan D...is the next step....and have to prepare for the 'knife' in the wound to be turned...a few times...while 'separating' the assets.... revisiting the 'past'! YUKKKK!

I never thought the day would come that I would say that I TRUST a lawyer over WS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />....but I do!....sure, a lawyer will expect me to pay for his services (which are NOT cheap!)... but I am finding it helpful to have a resource with regards to my RIGHTS... and to help me 'walk' through this process...

...seeing that WS has CHOSEN to take a very selfish route... with no consideration of the consequences, financial and otherwise, to his family ..... which is why I DIDN't take him up on his offer to use a mediator...just to SAVE MONEY! (....of course, the cost of his A on family finances doesn't count!)

....and I never thought the day would come when I would hear myself say that I am looking forward to the sense of relief of being...LEGALLY.... detached from WS... and INDEPENDENT of the legal consequences of HIS choices!

...but...like everything else....this, too, will come to pass....

..just have to DO a lot of.....DEEP BREATHING! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

keep deep breathing Luna. You are doing incredibly well, considering the circumstances.
I expect to be in your shoes someday and I will follow your example.

keep breathing deeply...

thanks ccbis..

How are you doing these days?

luna...your growth in the past few years is nothing short of remarkable!

You have experienced infidelity where the WS just doesn't "get it", and you are taking steps to make sure that he does, finally, "get it".

But the marvel in all this is that you came to these forums, broken, paralyzed, your life in total upheaval. You stayed, you read, you learned, you grew.

This is the beauty in Harley's teachings. The BS emerges a beautiful butterfly from the cocoon of infidelity. Watching your growth has been an inspiration to me, and many others here. Know that!

Keep breathing, stay strong, and trust your instincts; ie, in trusting your lawyer more than your WS.

There are many of us here still pulling for you and supporting you in your efforts!

Geesh, SD...thanks...that was a lovely post!



Yes, you are right, SD...hard to believe, isn't it?



Well...I don't know if one day WS will ALLOW himself to ever 'get it'...and for sure won't as long as he stays in A.... but seeing someone need to be in such DENIAL.... only indicates to me how DEEP he is in pain... but it will be up to him to do, or NOT, the work needed to get himself to a better place...

...and really, my main focus and motivation from the start is and has been how to best 'protect' myself, so that I can be 'there' for myself AND the boys, since counting on a WS just doesn't 'cut it', and how to best minimize the damage when faced, not so much as a selfish WS, but a WS who is in such total DENIAL of the impact the A has had on me, the boys, our families and friends....because it would HAVE to be EXTREMELY PAINFUL to face??!? ...but....I wouldn't know.... it's been awhile since I stopped WASTING energy on GUESSING what's going on with WS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

....I just keep my eye on the eagle... read my own PLB....since it's been so long....LOL... to remind myself, and respect, my OWN boundaries!



Yes...I have LEARNED and I keep LEARNING so much thanks to OH! so many people here....who courageously and generously share their experiences.....



....this really ticks WS off! ...but I KNOW better NOW than to go into mediation with a WS, don't I?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hello everybody,

WS and I communicate by email...once a week or every two weeks as needed....and only about the boys and financial issues (no LSA in place)....and he manages to stick to it, mostly....

I am writing this out both, to help me 'get it out there' since it seems to help me... and in case you may want to add some input or comments about it.

I received an email from WS a little longer than usual...in which he makes a few 'over and above' needed comments, and am wondering if I should bother to address them... so, I am dissecting 'them' here to help me decide (and maybe alleviate the urge to do so) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Firstly,

Parents/teachers night is coming up for DS17... he is having difficulty in a few courses, and I AM concerned and have obviously discussed this with DS17, who is unwilling to make the effort needed to improve his record... he doesn't like school.... doesn't know what he wants to do with himself yet.... and as we are all learning here... given his age.... he may not only need to 'know' what the the consequences, but to experience them...in order to choose something else.... if only to prove that he CHOOSES what he wants to do with HIS life... that his PARENTS can't tell him what he needs to do because....typically in adolescence...he knows it all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />....

So....now, WS wants to know if I intend to see his teachers separately or do I want to go together with him? (even though the past two years we have done so separately..... given that I am in PLAN B)

WS also tells me, that seeing that he now does not have much contact with DS17 (because he is choosing to stay full-time with me) he feels powerless to help in any way. Would I be interested in discussing what we could do together to help him?

Now.... WS surely knows my answer to seeing the teachers together and to getting together for a discussion....so why is he bothering to ask?

Of course it would be better if we were to put our heads 'together' and work TOGETHER to raise our boys!...so, is he asking so he can have a clear conscious to tell himself (and others) that he offered but its BS that doesn't want to cooperate? Is he trying to make me feel guilty?

Secondly,

I still administer finances, and have informed him of some property 'expenses' we needed to share.... so, he uses that to agree, that, yes, in fact, things are 'tight' financially, and that neither of us needed the added cost of a lawyer's services for plan D (had I, of course, agreed to deal directly with him in a 'friendly' separation)

....guilt....guilt....

Were I to reply, I would have only one thing to say:

(a) Had you not started and continued an A with someone else's wife, it would not be the case...

..but seriously, does anyone here see the need for me to reply AT ALL just to keep the 'communication' open about the boys?

...like, short and sweet...

(b) I intend to consult DS17's teachers alone and, given the current circumstances, a discussion between us about DS17 will not be possible.

Urghhh....OK....that feels better!

Thanks.

Hi Luna,

My advice to you is to stay....DARK! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />