Isn't it amazing how theraputic it is to come here and share? Really, this forum has gotten me through many nights where I wasn't sure that I was going to make it.

Both the encouragement and just reading about others in the same situation boosted my spirits during the darkest hours.

But...in the end it is really TIME that heals all wounds I guess. Not a good thing for an impatient person like myself. This one I couldn't speed up though. I had to trudge through the sludge of the A.

Hi CL,



...I believe it's the difference between...

....being in a room full of people talking about the day's weather... and feeling lonely... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

....and being alone....sharing our deepest emotions with perfect strangers .... and feeling 'connected'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


...uhmmm....yes, true....TIME....but also what we DO with it!...sorry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

...no matter how PAINFUL and inspite of the numerous outworldly temptations of 'EASY FIXES'...

...have the COURAGE and STRENGTH...

...to NOT...FOLLOW and COMPROMISE...and believe that one can CONTROL anything or anyone else...but OURSELVES...

...focus INSIDE... DO whatever it takes to remain TRUE to ourselves...
....to fulfill our greatest responsibility...TAKING CARE...of ourselves!

...DECLUTTER the path to allow our mind and heart to RECONNECT...provide the PEACE and HARMONY that nourish our SOUL...

...then WATCH and be in AWE of the potential limitless source of energy before you that, to me, is the most PRICELESS treasure all of us have and need protect....the human spirit...

...with it we can move...MOUNTAINS.. if need be! (...well...maybe not LITERALLY!)

...so that we can ENJOY and be GRATEFUL for the most precious GIFT of all.....LIFE...to live each and every DAY as if there was no TOMORROW!

...THAT, my dear CL, can keep a BS in plan B....quite BUSY....and before you know it, low and behold <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />.... YEARS have gone by....LOL!!!!

....we were put on this earth WITHOUT being asked.... and we will surely be OBLIGED to leave...(sooner or later)...

...but we sure as heck have SOMETHING to say about what happens to us...IN BETWEEN!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hey Luna,

You are such a wise woman. Your posts always make me feel better. The posts here and AD's...ahhh...what a great combo for the BS. Works for me!

I hope that all is well with you today. Has been a pretty good week for me. Looking forward to a little pampering at the salon on Friday. That always helps....

Keep us updated on your landlord/tenant issues. I still say evict her [censored] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> His too!

Hi CL,


...for sure....

...and what I have found helps, too....because we can get soooo busy and can easily forget about 'taking care' of ourselves... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

...at the beginning of each and EVERY week, I make sure to schedule in a 'ME TIME' or 'ME PROJECTS', alone or with a friend and depending on funds available!..... go out for lunch (yes, alone, too) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />, see a movie, go to the museum, library, get a massage <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, explore another part of the city, join a book club, attend 'free' lectures, start a hobby you have always wanted to try ... so as to ALWAYS have SOMETHING to look FORWARD to...at least ONCE a week! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

...you will see....it makes a BIG difference...OVER TIME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi everybody,

Just curious.... about how it is for some of you .... say for those past at least the 2-yr mark from D-day.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> whether in personal recovery or M recovery!

...as I would say that 'objectively' I am doing pretty good.... survived D-day..... surviving Plan B....plan D in process...and overall, 'objectively', I would say that I am doing pretty good.... with 'moving on'....

yet... no matter what... no matter how long.... there is this continual nagging feeling...somewhere in the background of it all.... an 'anxiety' of sort.... that something is about to go...WRONG!

I am just wondering.... is this a part of the NEW NORMAL....once a BS....ALWAYS a BS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />..... and having to, on a day to day basis, continually deal with the traumatic aftermath of having had your trust betrayed.... by the one you trusted the most!?!

...is this part of having further lost....the innocence?

....just wondering....how it is for some of you.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

...is there something else that, in your experience, has proven to be helpful in dealing with these feelings.... other than FOCUSING on oneself...and on the PRESENT?

....how to get back the 'feeling' that...things will be REALLY be OK one day..... but not like BEFORE!

...and as usual...I already am very grateful just to have a 'place' to come to....!

....to lighten the load....

Thanks...

"...is this part of having further lost....the innocence?"

Luna - Infidelity has been a life-changing event for me. I consider myself recovered, but forever changed. Life is good again, and I feel like myself again, but things will never be the same for me.

And the way I see it played out in my life is with my friends. After D-day, I suddenly had higher standards for friendship. I dumped lots of friends.

I have a new love now, but won't ever trust him like he probably deserves to be trusted. After all, the one that I trusted before with my life betrayed me.

So I am much more cynical than before. But life IS good again. You will get there too.

It took me over 3 years.

Hi Luna,

I'm not past the 2 year mark yet, but I feel exactly the way that you do. I wonder about it all of the time too.
And honestly, I don't think that the wound will ever truly heal. It will always be there in some sense.

For most of us, marriage is a life decision. No one ever gets married with the expectation of getting a D. Why would we? We expect to be with that person the rest of our lives. And just as the vows say, we expect that person to love, honor, protect and all of those other things that are promised. The breaking of those vows is a life altering event.

We are betrayed by the one person that was supposed to protect us and keep us safe for life. How can we trust anyone else after that? I guess by definition, we can't. I think that we will always be cautious from here on out. Maybe we should be.

Not sure if I'm making sense or not because I'm sometimes not good at explaining myself, but the short answer is yes, I believe this is normal, yes, once a BS probably always a BS, and finally it takes TIME. Lots and lots of time. Emotional wounds don't heal nearly as quickly as physical ones, but I do believe that with time, the mind tends to allow us to focus on other things and gradually put it out of the forefront.

I've been told that a D is like a death and has to be mourned. Was that ever the truth. Sometimes I think that it is worse than death.

And things will be OK someday. And not like before either. Not worse, just different, which may not be so bad.

Hi B,

Thanks for your quick reply.


B... I figured as much.

I 'updated' one of my friends...by telling him that I no longer was in the acute pain I was just after D-day... and definitely doing well 'managing' my life....but after over 20-yrs in a M.... I WAS navigating NEW and UNKNOWN territory.... going...SOLO! ...and I AM doing so much better than I ever thought I would....

...but like you, 'trusting' people as much as I USED to is going to be difficult...

...LIFE is already GOOD....but sounds like I might need to schedule in some more....LAY BACK and RELAX time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

....this SOLO thing can be a bit stressful at times!

Hi CL,

Just noticed your post!



...I certainly now feel that I made myself too 'vulnerable' in M... trusting too much..... and got burned! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

...I guess that's what they mean by...'when you know better, you do better!' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



...yeap.... and plan B is to help along 'our mind' to do that....sooner!



... it really comes down to being....thankful....for what we DO have.... because I don't believe anyone really HAS it all! ....different challenges....yes..... but challenges all the same.... and the bottom line....

...it comes down to how we HANDLE our challenges!

...well....for me tonight.... seeing that DS17 is away for a few days with friends and DS12 is with his dad...

...it means catching up on seeing the oscar-nominated films...TWO...back to back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Luna,

Thanks for stopping by my thread. Always good to hear from you.

I agree, I think the "friendly" D is to allow the WS relief from the guilt. They want us to go along with the plan to justify their betrayal.

Actually, when my WH finally found a reason (me forcing sale of house) he became very hostile and it all became my fault. He now feels absolved of any responsibility or guilt and can fight dirty.

The fight now is between the attys. It's better that way really. I would only end up hating him if I had to deal with his hostility right now. Because he is so hostile and demanding accounting of finances etc. I ended up asking him to prove how much of our money he gave to the OW so she wouldn't lose her trailer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> He "forgot" how much he gave her, so I never knew. Atty says we will get his expense records, her records etc if we have to. I just don't feel that I should give up my 401K money to fund her gambling problems.

I sure hope that someday I learn the reason for all of this. If there is one. So many lives being destoyed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, sounds like we both are in the paperwork mode.

What do you think will happen between your WH and OP? I wonder where this will end up.....

Hi CL,

Thanks for your post.



...and if they can't have that.....
...WS will figure out a reason to make it BS's FAULT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />....LOL!



....see what I mean? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



..yeap....I agree....let the attorneys handle it.... both to keep you at arm's length from the hostilities of WS and also to let them figure out how you can best come out on top financially...ALLL.....at a very high price no matter how you look at it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ...which is why.... the reality is.... bottom line... that all we can do is....minimize the damage.... financially... emotionally.... psychologically....
at a very high hourly rate of professionals: attorneys, marriage counselling, individual consults.... you name it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

at this stage....whatever it takes to keep us from....DROWNING! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

....giving a new meaning to the phrase: ...BECAUSE I'M WORTH IT!



I hope so, too, CL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />



...yeap.... set aside 'to do' only SO much.... but did 'more'.....YEAK....YEAK....YEAK.. but proud of myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



I really don't know.... because...LIFE is FULL OF SURPRISES! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

What I know for sure...is that for WS the price of his R with OP keeps getting higher.... and will depend on how much he is willing to be in DENIAL.....refusing to SEE the obvious....

...but there is really nothing I, or any BS, can do at this stage....except try to 'protect oneself'.....because ONE THING is for SURE......waywards are EXTREMELY toxic to one's health! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Lunamare,
I have followed all your thread as your feelings, experiences, thoughts, plans forward..etc...(although I am a man !)...seem very similar to my own situation. And many helpful things have been said in your thread.

I was in Plan A from about June 2006 till November 2006...then in a "hybrid" Plan B till April 2007. From then I consider it became a "proper "dark Plan B....and is still ongoing.

I have been fortunate in that my elder daughter (fairly mature married mother DD22) took on the role of intermediary between WW and I. Even though WW lives less than 5 minutes walk away from me, I have not seen or spoken to her for a year.

DD13 often contacts her mother and is allowed occasional brief visits or a lift in her car. I have found this very unsettling, though not quite so much now.
So I do reckon you must find it very difficult, while in Plan B, not to have an intermediary?. I am not sure that I could have managed it.

Hi N67,

Thanks for dropping by.

Well...not having an intermediary....communicating by email ONLY....sticking to facts ONLY.... does require quite a bit of discipline.... and on the odd occasion.... hence my thread title.... warding off attempts from WS to see whether or not I may be willing to do 'friendly co-parenting'....

...because as expected, initially WS interpreted my plan B as a 'punishment' or my being 'mad' at him.... and that with time....I would get over it!
....he now seems to have realized, hence some reality check in laland, that it is NOT the case!

....the situation does force me to NOT lose sight of PBL conditions and my boundaries.... end A with OW and recommittment to me and family!

...and so I learned to put 'distance' on the content, learned to NOT analyze it, 'filter' the emails like an intermediary would and only address....FACTS... 'yes' and 'no' replies...and no....INTERACTION!

I am glad to hear you are able to be REALLY dark....it is better for both personal recovery....and M recovery!

...and it looks like your DD13 is choosing NOT to stay at all with your WS? ....is A continuing and is she living wit OP? ....do you plan to add plan D at some point to your plan B?

...that's what my DS17 has chosen to do...no longer stay over at WS'S....again....some more reality check for WS in laland...who was VERY disappointed about it!

If you do not have a thread for updates... whenever you feel like 'sharing' your own experience.... you are more than welcome to share my thread!

...the more the merrier...as they say...LOL!

....and maybe you can give us here a quick summary and tell us how you are doing these days!... or refer us to your thread....

Lunamare,
Thanks for responding to my note and explaining your means of communication with your WS....my WW doesn't have a computer!. But I would not like that even as a means of communication. The communication really only being needed because of the children.
The last words between WW and I were that she still wanted us to be friends. I responded that I could never be "just friends".
Yes...I consider I am still REALLY dark....but for how long..?.
I think DD13 , the youngest, would like to stay sometimes with her mum (WW)...if asked to. She obviously misses and loves her mum.
I'm the one who tries to guide DD through school...and indeed everything in her life... I meet the tutors at parents evenings and have to liase with the school to sort out truanting and other problems. But DD13, I have just found out, has gone behind my back this week and arranged for her mum to attend the parents meeting to discuss DD's school options and future instead of me!!.DD13 realises I am upset about this.

Being "dark" I never ask about WW but do know that OM(1) seduced, diseased and then dumped her in September 2006. And am aware she then went on to OM(2) ..probably an overlap of a few months...and is still close to this one. She has her own flat but probably partly lives with him in a nearby town.
I have no intention of pursuing Plan D yet, and may be able to continue as we are for at least another 3 and 1/2 years....ie 5 years from when WW moved out.
This would mean that DD13 and DS19, living with me, would have financial security for this time.
I have no idea of WW's intentions...have to wait and see.

Thank you for inviting me to share your thread ... I may do.
But I have a thread which has, though, rather come to a halt.

WW is 50. I am almost 70, but if I was younger I am sure I might well by now have moved on.

My thread is under "Infidelity / just found out"....
"Am I handling this well or badly"?.

Hi N67,



I know that it's a hard 'balancing' act..... how NOT to be friends with WS and not comprise oneselves and be 'exposed' to very hurtful behaviour.... and yet find a means to communicate for the benefit of the children.... as is suggested, the ideal is in fact finding someone willing to be an intermediary.... is there anyone else, other than your older daughter, because that puts her in a very difficult position, I think, that could play that role?



Than you should ask your DD13....and put her at ease to do so.... so that YOU do not have ALL of the responsibility of PARENTING!.... because no matter how old they are.... they need BOTH parents.... and it's going to be important for you to make your children FEEL comfortable... like given them permission and know that THEY won't be hurting YOU, if and when, they DO want to SEE and TALK to your WS..... or else.... they will do it BEHIND your back and feel TERRIBLE....when they SHOULDN't.... because inspite of everything... your WS is their MOTHER.... and because they ALREADY have a lot to handle as it is... and so you want to make things EASIER for them...

Both of my boys.... inspite of the fact that I choose NOT to see WS.... are well aware that I more than support their need to be in CONTACT with their dad.... I actually encourage it... I know he cares about them very much... I CAN'T be a DAD even if I wanted to.....and WS knows as do the boys that they are allowed to make arrangements to meet....do activities.... whatever....ANYTIME... and I would have no problem with it....

Although I mostly let the boys answer the phone... I have on occasion taken a call from WS to speak to boys... and just passed on the....PHONE! ...very business-like! .... I do it to put my BOYS at ease with speaking to their DAD!

.....so... please try and put your children at ease if they wish to speak to or have a relationship with their MOM.... you cannot play BOTH roles..... no matter how much you would like to do it....



If that's your plan, fine... be open to revise it if you need to....



..anytime!.... and as you know...it's a big debate what 'moving on' really means.... just try to do the best you can... taking care of yourself and your children... show as much as you can how much you love them.... and allow them to be who they are.... and if it means needing to have a R with their MOM... even if it hurts... loving them will mean allowing them the freedom to do so and not feel they are 'betraying' you.... they will be grateful to you for it....

Take care.

Lunamare,
Thanks for that helpful response. I do encourage DD13 to contact her mum whenever she wants to. But I have always said, please let me know when you do and what arrangements you have made..etc..that's why I was a little hurt that she had gone behind my back.
DS 19 has shown to contact his mum. He has seen her once or twice in the last year. I know he was very fond of her and I think he was her favourite.
DS25...left home about 8 years ago. He visits now and again for weekends. He rarely contacts his mum.

DD22 passed a letter to me today from her mum, WW.
It reads...
Dear BS,
I am hoping that you will agree to meet up for a chat, somewhere you will feel comfortable, at the house, at DD22's, or whatever.
There things we need to discuss but I want it to be as relaxed and pleasant as possible,
I look forward to hearing from you,
WW.
!?
WS attempt to break Plan B?.

Lunamare,
Re DD22 being intermediary. I know it puts her in a difficult position but she is "happy" to do it. She merely acts as messenger.
"Lovinganyway" had advised against it so I gave the matter some thought. But I did note elsewhere that a similar thing had been done.

Hi N67,



Yep....

I am sorry if I don't know the details of your situation...

...but I am assuming that if you are in plan B you have made it clear to WW what needs to happen... nothing needs to be discussed...

...I would stay dark...

You might want to revive or start a new thread if your WW persists and you want input from others...

Do not accept ANYTHING less than N/C with OP and recommittment to M before coming out of plan B.... otherwise.... chances are you will end up in a False Recovery... and you deserve better!

Take care.

Update.

Well.... a date has been set, April 3rd, two separate rooms... attorneys doing the go-between.... and start off negotiation of division of assets...

...I decided to get into IC... I think I am going to need it... expect deep wounds to be reopened... and could use the help!

...many feelings are being stirred up again... not many pleasant!

...insecurities: financial, emotional..... pain for the losses... of family, trust.... doubts.... loneliness... anger.... confusion.... nervous... anxious.... disappointed... discouraged.... overwhelmed... sad...

geesh!....not sure how to 'manage' the emotions and 'think' straight at the same time....

....like everything.... I will survive.... and probably like many... wish it was already OVER for some reason!

...another tough gig ahead... and I am not quite sure how to prepare myself for it.... sometimes I just feel....TIRED!

I know many here have gone through it, are in it, will be in it....

Back to....BREATHING...deeply, VERY DEEPLY!

Glad the Board is back up... it looks like it was a lot of work!

Thanks to all in charge of it.

Hi Luna,

I think that you can probably expect to backslide a little. I've heard from some that when the end comes, they go back to their lowest, but only temporarily. For others, it is a relief. For those of us who still hope to possibly recover, it is probably a backslide.

I also go through all of the emotions daily (sometimes hourly). The important thing though is that we are further up the curve than we were at one time. I even have moments during the day where I don't think about it at all. Now that's progress my friend! I hope that you have those moments too.