You and I have alot in common...but my H and I do not have any children together. Mine were from a previous relationship...but he's been their dad since they were 2 and 4 years.
It seems as though he's trying to punish you. I wish he'd come here and talk....as well as my husband.
Part of me feels like: I'm putting him "out" or on the spot for something I did...Do you feel that way???
But we have to remember, there was no excuse for our actions but as someone mentioned in one of my threads.....sometimes we are made vunerable to another relationship when are needs are not being met. If we could only go back I KNOW IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT. But I would go back far enough...for us to say to our spouses "We are drifting apart, it's not what we want, what are we going to do about it?"
Have you printed off the questionaires on the site and answered them? I've printed them off, but haven't gotten the nerve to approach my husband. He's never been real approachable.....
You are in a tough spot....I will keep you and yours in my prayers.....I wish I had more advice. Oh and don't worry about the "too much information"....I'm sure people have read stuff on my posts...that seemed like too much. BUT IT IS A FACTOR....so NO WORRIES. O.K?

M2L and my double-oh, I so would love to have him come here and talk to you guys or Owl or Bob Pure- so many many good men who could help him. But he is adamant!!!!!! No WAY will he. "You want me to go to some web site or read some book and we'll be fine? Whatever!" That is what he says. But you all help me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yesterday after I got home from work we had a bit of a mess. He was supposed to help me do some work- HIS idea- and he has not done anything, even when I"ve taken a morning off of work to explain it, and wanted to do things together in the evening. So now he's put me waaaay behind, on some important things too. I've been asking him about it and he always says he'll do it. Then yesterday he says he's "just not in the right frame of mind." So I accused him of being passive aggressive, cried, etc, the D word got thrown around, "you can just go call a divorce lawyer if you want" he says. I said, "If I wanted to I would!" ANyway- he finally said,"look, give me a hug, we both need to get off our trains." So we hugged and I said, "I don't want to divorce you." and he said, "good, I dont' want to divorce you very bad either." and I said, "I want you to eventually forgive me." and he said yah. So it ended on a fairly good note. THen we went to Borders to look at interior design magazines so we could see what type of rugs we want.

You know, 007, I feel that way to- like mine and BH's roles are kinda turned around......and I know what you say is true, and MrRob gets to have his feelings, whether I think he should or not! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And I'm learning!

Iamforgiven- no, we havent' done the questionnaire- see above for his comments on the web site. He has repeatedly refused to go to counseling, etc. You know how they say practice makes perfect? Well, that is not right. Practicing PERFECTLY makes perfect. And I feel like we're stuck in the same roles as we've always been becasue we have no new information. Well, all I can do is improve myself, right? Plan A for ME!! HE knows and even will admit that a lot of what he does is to punish me. He even knows it's wrong to do. So far it hasn't stopped him, though last night I called him on it. Again. I agree with having to go back FAR ENOUGH to stop the A. And I know that going forward I can A-proof ME. Right now, I dont' know about the marriage since I don't know about BH. he has commented that "the only way I can get over this is to go out and have my own affair." But then he says, "I'm not like you, I could never do that."

Oh well. Another day to learn things and improve, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My husband said, "I don't feel like I can be myself around you." But didn't elaborate on exactly what it was. He hasn't held back comments....I've taken it all, without anger towards him...again almost as a punishment.....I deserve it. My H also has said, "I feel like going out and having an A"....
I feel like we are falling into our same traps as well. He does what he wants, doesn't check in with me....etc. I'm trying to hang on to the good stuff*....he's had lunch with me almost every day. Now sometimes friends are there in between jobs as well...we all meet at our house.
He had to stop in the middle of sex two days ago, because of a thought he had in his mind. I don't blame him, I was sad....not mad. I didn't find this out until the morning....I just laid there wondering
I haven't even asked for forgiveness....I'm just waiting until I earn it...I guess. Or until he offers it...
He seems to think.....just cause he didn't leave he's commitmented to our marriage???......or because he wasn't the one to have an A. He's forgetting the words he said to me...."We were drifing apart, one of us was bound to do this, it just so happened to be you."
Then he confessed to having MANY opportunities, and one of the last snowmobiling trips he went on they all went to a strip club and two strippers wanted to go to the cabin with my H and one of his married friends. Ironically, this is one of the guy's that was instrumental in "turning" me in. My H said, "do you know how many of your friends I could have slept with?" I'm thinking, "Wow, why are you telling me this now?"
He still thinks I gave Oral Sex to the other man.....I just couldn't do it.....He didn't care for me......it was such a cold cold act....He did nothing for me...just used me and I allowed myself to be used.

Hi all- things are a little better. Still some ups and downs, but seems to be more even keeled. THis morning I was kind of weepy, not really knowing why. BH asked why I was teary and I told him I didn't know but could sure use a hug. So he did, and it was really nice. He is cuddling at night which is nice.

I am forgiven- you should ask for forgiveness so that your BH knows you want it. And you should be acting as if you are worthy of forgiveness, becasue you are!

I want to tell you very briefly about our journey.

First, I feel your H anger and frustration as well as your's.

We were in a similar situation about 20 years ago after my wifes affair. I never have been able to totally forget but have forgiven many years ago. I recall that I always felt as if there was the presence of the OM right there with us when ever we would start to get intimate. I just worked hard to never let him get in the way, he could just stand there and watch, or let on what I was feeling in that regard. Most time I was able to get past it by taking that approach.

My FWW always tried to show me that I was the one she chose, not the OM, that I was the most important person in her life regardless of the funk I may been in early on. We certainly had many ups and downs. After our initiaI grieving stage we moved on together in all aspects of our life. We just tried to not dwell on the A as it was counterproductive in our life. It really was just a bad mistake in judgment on her part. It took me a looong time to really understand that.

The only drawback to my approach has been that I have never totally gotten rid of the hurt but have learned to control and manage it. It still sneaks up and says Hi!! sometimes often and then sometimes not for weeks. Sneak attacks. Not sure what triggers it.

I never talked about it with her as I did not want her to feel I was trying to punish her. Just lately as I have reading here and doing some posting did she become aware of what I have been feeling. And we have started discussing our life since the big A and how much better it has been and how much closer we have been all through it. To my surprise just yesterday she told me that she had thought I was totally over this years ago as she had been. I guess maybe that says something about how well I have been able to manage it. Not sure.

Any way to get back to you. It seems to me that your H is still very angry and striking out at you. From my self-controlling POV that is very counterproductive to moving forward and making a better M. I feel he needs to start to get control of his anger so it no longer controls him. He may need more time but if he truely wants the M to work as you do he has got to eventually start working in this direction. Then you can reach out to each other and move forward to a better future.

Mrs Rob

I have caught up on your situation. Forgive me some strident words.

In my time here I have seen several situations where an affair is almost WELCOMED by frustrated BS' who find themselves with "permission" to behave in a terrible absuive manner towards their spouse that they would not dare to without an A. I think that your H may be one of such man.

Remote EAs in particular seem to provide this "excuse for abuse" because most of the men I know are less threatened by a no-contact affair than a contact EA or a PA. Yes some are still ( justifiably) devastated - I am speaking in experience generalisations here, not minimising the experience of devastated EA BS..

Your contrition and repentence since-day appears to have been sincere and complete. Your H's response to you has been way beyond disproportionate, and is in the realms of sadism IMO.

I know from my own dear Squid that FWS feel they deserve nothing good and everything bad once the reality of their behaviours come home to them, but in fact repentant FWS deserve kudos. The BS has a right to divorce or work on a M, but no-one has any right abusing a repentant transgressor.

Mrs Rob, I believe it is time for you to stop feeling you deserve this abuse and call it what it truly is: sadism.

So you really value your H's abusive presence in your life more than your dignity ? If SO, give yourself permission to soak up more abuse. If NOT, set up some personal boundaries lady and STOP taking it.

You DO NOT deserve this, stop telling yourself that you do . as a BH I was DEVASTATED by my baby's PA but AT NO TIME did I abuse her.Nor have the vast majority of BS on here.

Abuse diminsishes the abuser far more than the target IME. You can help your H find some dignity, by first asserting your own and helping him stop his abuse by saying NO!.

There can be no recovery while there is abuse and such disrespect IME. Pleaseconsider my words carefully and work out some personal boundaries for yourself. then POLICE them .
All blessings.

Mrs Rob,

Can I just say I agree with Bob Pure 100%.

My wife had an affair much worse than yours but I would never ever treat her so poorly as your husband is treating you. He is a bully Mrs Rob.

You guys are making me cry at work. Bob and Big K, you are telling me what KaylaAndy has told me too.

But HOW??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Everytime I try to set a boundary it's like he just absolutely doesnt' care. "You did this, you're in a box. I always told you that if you ever cheated on me you wouldnt' be worth it anymore." So it seems that the only thing I can do is to leave him. And then it would be over completely. There would be no reconciliation, guaranteed. Kayla has encouraged me to go to my church leaders, which I am trying to muster up the courage to do.

I did confront him the other day, telling him that what he was doing is wrong and that he would one day need to repent of his own sins. You know, kind of a "would Jesus treat a sinner this way? You are not repecting yourself when you act like this." He says he knows it's wrong, but he is still angry and is going to do whatever he wants until he is not angry any more.

You know, I just dont' know what to do! Even this morning he asked me if I was sleeping with anyone at work, told me he didnt' trust me and wasnt' sure if he loved me, that I had a famous "F2F" last night because HE said it was too late.........

WHAT do I DO???? Nothing gets through to him. He refuses counseling, I feel that if I go to our bishop at church MrRob will not only not respond but will have a ruined church relationship too. He already goes sporadically becasue he doesnt' want to hear things.....

And we have a daughter. And sometimes, if I'm doing everything right (not like cooking or cleaning, but mostly SF) then all is well. But if I'm not "reliable" in the SF area, all He** breaks loose. And it's so unpredictable!

So please give me some practical advice that will save my marriage and make it better? Is there such a thing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and Bob, I've always wanted to know why you call your wife Squid? I'm sure it's a term of endearment, but it's kind of a funny one. Is there a story behind it? Like, did she have to move up from plankton to electric eel to squid? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I always wanted to know how she got the name Squid too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. Rob,

Go to the emotional boards and give a shout out for myschae....she is FANTASTIC w/ boundaries.

Oh, and here's a hug for you today... ((((((Mrs. Rob)))))))


~ Marsh

Ms. Rob, i pray my WW will have a heart liek yours one day.

i admire your tenacity in fighting for what you believe.

((((((Ms. Rob))))))))

MrsRob, have you tried calling the MB phone counselling? They might be able to help you find the way to get through to your husband. There is an article on this site you should read too:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

(the relevant part is near the bottom, titled "Using Resentment as a way to control or punish a spouse")

Mrs. Rob,

Just wanted to say I agree with Bob 100%.

He said it so much more to the point than did I.

Keep Goin and get youself that 2x4.

Mrs Rob

Is your marriage, as dysfunctional and abusive as it is right now, worth the price of your dignity to maintain ?

That is the question you need to ask yourself in order to determine your next move.
You are accepting your husband's unrighteous sadism IN THE HOPE that he might change.

Doesn't work, Mrs R. Hope is not a plan. If you do what you always did , you'll get what you always got.

Your H needs a compelling reason to change is behaviour. That is usally being faced with a direct consequence of his choice. In the case of Squid and I, that was me telling her that I had boundaries and while they were respected I wold do all I could to work on our marriage, but if they were not rspected I would remove myself from what I deemed to be disrespectful and undeserved hurt.

See fundamental personal boundaries are YOURS not your H's. They are the basic inviolable rules that you demand be respected for you to remain in a relationship witha person.

Mine are :

* NC
* Transparency
* Investment in personal healing , and MY healing

Even now if Squid chose to persistently violate those I would sadly divorce her. Not THREATS, just conseuqnces of her behaviour.

See if you had a boundary of decent, humane treatment and your H chose to violate that, surely it wouldonly be a nett loss to you if you value the shards of abusive marrige over your personal dignity, and setting ann example for adult behaviour for your kids.

I was very scared to set and inform squid of my boundaries as I was CERTAIN she would leave me in her haughtiness. But she didn't. Spouses rarely do in fact. James Dobson'sbook "love must be tough" describes this weird phenomenon well. The higher you value yourself, the higher others will value you.

If I were you I owuld say to your Hsomething like :

" BH, I love you. I love you so much that I am trying to do all I can to repent of my EA and be the wife you deserve. But even in my sin, I know that I am a good person, and a dignified one. I feel that your treatment of me is sadistic, and I am certain that it is not Jesus' plan for repentant sinners to suffer such deliberate abuse.

I also believe that your abuse of me is hurting YOUR own GOOD soul. Good people do not treat others like this without their own soul becoming bruised..

I am SO SORRY that I hurt you, and I want to spend my life working with you to make a very happy marriage, but I cannot allow you to bully me.

Please know that I would love you to support me in recovery and treat me with respect, but if you choose not to, or cannot then I will have to review if my staying in this marriage is the best thing for me, for you or our kids.

This is not a threat, baby, just a fact. You deserve a wife that would not tolerate such abuse as you give me, and the kids deserve beter role models than both of us IMO.

Please think about what you want in light of what I have told you. I have taken enough abuse. I pray you decide to work with me respectfully on our marriage, but whatever you choose, you must do what you think is right".

Scary isnt it ?

IME you must be prepared to lose your marriage in order to reset the current broken rules of it.

All blessings.

Mrs Rob,

A boundary is something you would leave/divorce over. If you set a boundary and he consistently violates it I say yes. Leave him. That is sure to wake him up.

You need some self respect Mrs Rob. Grieves me to see the way he treats you.

I agree - tell the Bishop as well.

Oh, and Bob, I've always wanted to know why you call your wife Squid?

When I was 19 & squid was 18 we met at college. We hit it off right away : she a petite colleen looking girl, and me a big rugby playing rocker. We played jokes on each oher for a few days till we found ourselves alone in a crowd together.

We only knew each other's first names so I asked " what's your surname ?"

She replied " It's Quinn". She had a heavy cold and the words came out " Id Squid".

We laughed till we cried, and at that moment I gave her my heart. She's been rough with it for sure, but she's had it ever since.

And she's always been my Squid ever since.

Oh and I agree - Call Steve Harley Mrs Rob.

Hello MrsRob,

I havent posted alot mainly just lurking but I wanted to tell you that I felt really guilty after i read your post way back when you said he called you a F$^4 pig. My FWW also got upset when i mentioned your situation because i did the same thing to her. I'd like you to know that I am happy to hear your doing better and I also know the games your BH is playing because i played them too. After awhile my FWW almost called it quits because I was always looking to put her down to somehow get revenge and feel better about myself.

she finally got tired of it and said i either treat her as a person or shes out of there.

Thank god she made me realize that a marriage cant run on grudges. She lurks so she might even read this.


Bobby

Hi there-

I so appreciate all the kind words and suggestions. Bob, I am practicing what you said in your post so I can use it.

Strangely enough, things are going well. He had a bit of an outburst over a money thing, which usually would start a big all night fight (the fight wouldnt' necessarily last all night, but the silent treatment and meanness from both of us goes on and on)- but then he kissed me and apologized and things were okay. We've had little tiffs that usually end up into big things and they DIDN'T. HUGE imho. And it's mostly him stopping these fights, not me.

Also, a couple of years ago we went to see the Red Hot Chili Peppers (Snoop Dogg opened for them- never thought I'd see Snoop Dogg! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). Anyway, BH told me last night that they were going to be in town again (I hadn't heard) and that he'd looked into getting us tickets but all the good seats were taken (when we went before we were in the second row). Just the fact that he'd LOOKED was huge to me!!!

We had a good T-day, and we had fun shopping on Friday. So things are better lately.

Bobby- I am so glad that you stopped that behavior towards your wife and that you had the love within yourself to stop. As a FWW, I know I deserve to hear how I hurt my BH and how he feels. But there is certainly a limit! As the Savior said, hate the sin, love the sinner.

Big K- not sure about the $$$ for Harley- we just bought a big house and I now have a big house payment! So I'll have to finagle the budget.

As Scarlett O'Hara says, "After all, tomorrow is another day!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Glad to hear the better news about your H and his actions toward you.

M2L