One thing that I have come to realize, while watching my dad mourn the loss of my mother for 7 years now, is that she was the love of his life. My mother is gone, and if my father chose to move on with someone else, he would still feel that she was the love of his life.

I know that these two situations are not EXACTLY the same, but the love is. My father could move on, but he chooses not to because HE is not ready. My dad says that he misses companionship, but I don't think he is ready for the next step, letting go of the past, ACCEPTANCE.



IMO, FGG should have never gotten engaged to Ann fully well knowing that he may still WANT to work on things with his WW. I know that it is hard to be alone, and that taking a relationship slowly can be tough, but FGG has done neither, with his wife or Ann, respectively. Now, he is 'torn between two lovers'. He has not accepted that his R with WW is over, otherwise, none of this thread would be happening...

Ah, the difference between loneliness and soli2de!

"Alone" doesn't cover the options adequately. Even now, though we're "in recovery" whatever that's supposed 2 be, I absolultely CHERISH every moment I have 2 myself. So long as I'm not being selfish, but instead nur2ring my individuality somehow (so I can nur2re my R with my W or my Rs with my kids), I'm being productive for all in the long haul.

NC007: You haven't been here all that long, so you aren't aware that there are a few very important steps in your list of things that FGG's been through that are relevant 2 his current dilemma - not the least of which is that he dated before he was DV'd, and he's had 3 relationships since separating from his W.

People will always be people, though. I'm sure that many religious people here - FGG in particular, perhaps - might be surprised 2 hear an "atheologist" like myself talk like this, but this is what I firmly believe about si2ations like this:

All the players go through exactly what they need 2 go through in order 2 grow as individuals. That includes FGG, certainly, as well as Ann, Lynn, the other chick who's name I can't recall at the moment, most definitely xMrsFGG, and all the kids, grandkids, cats and dogs, birds, fish, ponds, etc...

Emotional pain in these si2ations (and thus hurt) is a choice. Being able 2 step back and view this whole story from an outside perspective makes recognizing that fact pretty easy, particularly for those of us who are frankly sick and tired of the "drama-fests" we so often see on these infidelity boards.

But I submit 2 you all that the choice is one that each of these individuals has had 2 make, probably subconsciously, perhaps "directed" from a higher plane, in order 2 gain a little wisdom before they vie for the chance 2 claim their trophy as "best daisy-pusher in the bone orchard".

I think I've always felt some sort of empathy for xMrsFGG's "plight", perhaps because in many ways her EA and her insistence that she be allowed 2 have such extramarital relationships is harmless, is so similar 2 my own W's A (edited 2 finish this sentence). She may have only just realized how selfish that was for all those years. No way 2 know for sure, but from personal experience and from being on these sometimes life-saving, sometimes-annoying boards for so long now, I suspect that the fog may be breaking for good, finally.

I don't think there's anything more wonderful than watching a FWS come out of the fog. Even if the evidence is fleeting and sporadic, it's a sight 2 behold. And a fully-recovered FWS? Some of them have been true godsends (sorry about the god stuff, me being an atheologist and all...) 2 newbies, or even oldbies, on these boards.

Remember Hope4future? I can think of few FWWs who've graced our boards with finer wisdom from her own painful experience in the nearly 5 years I've been here.

Maybe MrsFGG will be like that someday. She's got the experience. Only time will tell if she chooses 2 2rn it in2 wisdom.

-ol' 2long

FGG, despite the length of this thread, there are a few facts I'm still unclear on:

1) Are you still engaged to Ann?
2) Does she wear your ring, or did she give it back to you?
3) Does she till consider you as pledged to her?
4) What committment have you made to her, that she is still entitled to believe in?
4) Have you told her you talked with your xW? Would she expect you to tell her that?

Frankly, I'm not a bit interested in your xW's call, or desires or 'awakening'. I'm certainly not interested in the hearts and flowers aspect of either 'romance'. I'm concerned about your own integrity, and your own ability to hold to committments you have made, because ultimately that's where your self-worth lies.

It's a WS trick to change the rules of engagement (sic) in order to accommodate temptation. Deciding that 'it's probably falling apart anyway' is a concept we're all too familiar with here. Fog is not just a WS trap.

We're also familiar with a schism in attitude to pre-marital committments; some think anything is fair game as long as the Big Vow has not been made, and some think a person's worth is measured by their willingness to hold to committments whatever the situation. You're going to get both attitudes here. What is your view? Where are the lines of your integrity drawn?

TA

Good post, 2long.

FGG
I think that before any reconcilliation your XW would still have to do all the things necessary to convince you of her sincerity. You heard some remorse in the phone conversation. Let's hope she can do the rest of the work necessary.

Beware of any reconciliation over the holidays....it could be just for the nostalgia of the holidays. It does still sound like a lot of 'me' still on her part. OM and future OM would still need to be covered....you know all this stuff.

It would have been best to wait the two years as most suggested...but all that is water over the bridge...you can learn from it and others can hopefully learn from your mistakes.

Mimi was right on a lot of it, but once you were DV'd...I thought it best to be positive and hopeful that things would work out with Ann and you seemed willing to commit to making it work. You still could but I really understand the history with your XW...my H and I have the same.

Many wouldn't have believed that my H would have changed his adulterous ways...but he did finially do his about face. We are still doing great together. Most would have said to DV him and move on....our sitch took much longer that 2 yrs.

Wow. Look at what I have been missing these past couple of days.

I am not going to try to react to everything that was posted here – but I am shocked at something Believer said. That GG is engaged and out looking for someone else? B – I think you know better than that. He wasn’t sniffing around. The reality is that affairs do end – eventually. And when they do – sometimes the BS has “moved on”, built a new life (many times, a better life). Almost always the WS will make an effort to reconcile. None of this is a surprise. GG “moved on”, his wife finally woke up (maybe), and calls him up. I am sure that GG never thought he would even consider “getting back together with her”. But when you hear that voice, and you think about how much your family is struggling, and how much the kids would appreciate having their parents together, a little part of your heart wonders if maybe, just maybe……..

None of this surprises me.

GG – this isn’t over. The fat lady isn’t even warming up her voice yet.

It is possible that through all of this, you may be able to reconcile with your ex – perhaps build a new relationship with her. It is also possible that your ex’s breakthrough may be temporary – it may be that you go through this time just to truly experience every stage of this development, so that you can truly build a new life with Ann, or someone else, yet un-named!

Ok – my story – again.

About 6 months after my D, my ex called to say he was no longer living with OW#1, and that she had him served with a restraining order, while he was at work. Not because he hurt her – she had the restraining order served because she was afraid he would stalk her after they split up. He was devastated. He was saying things like “how could she do this to me – I have lost everything”. Etc. I simply said “what about me? I lost my family”. He finally showed remorse. He sobbed and said, “I know, and I am so sorry. What can I do for you? I am so, so sorry”. Our conversations continued for about a week. We decided to start “dating”. We went to dinner a couple of times; he even fixed dinner for YS and I at his apartment. I kept thinking, “This is very awkward.” I wanted to like him again – I wanted my sons to have their mom and dad together again. I wanted things to work out. But I couldn’t stop thinking about how easy it was to throw me away. About the times when he said “I never really loved you these past 18 years. I just kept trying to make myself love you, but it never really happened, and now I have a chance to be happy, so I am taking it”. But I hung in there. We dated. We spoke by phone. After a couple of weeks, I started to like him again, a little. I started to see that it was possible to grow my feelings for him. That our family could be restored. I had a serious conversation with him. I said that I had few boundaries that I would NOT budge on. #1.No more porn – none – ever again. He agreed. He said “I just didn’t understand how much it bothered you” #2 counseling. First, him, by himself. Later, the two of us together. He agreed. #3 no more relationship with other women. No more “oh, she is just a friend” or, “she and her H are having problems, and I was helping her” none of that. We would have friendships with couples, as a couple. He would have friendships with men – but no more women, he couldn’t handle it. He agreed.
So I started to put my hope into the R. After a week I said, “Do you have an appointment for counseling yet.” No. After another week, I asked again, still no. I said, “I thought you were going to get into counseling” at that point he said “I don’t think I need it anymore. I am over my break up with OW#1” I said “uh…you don’t need counseling to get over your break up from a 1 year R. You need counseling to understand how you could abandon your wife of 18 years”. It was about this time that I realized he was getting a lot of phones calls on his cell, when he was out with me, and excusing himself to talk. He was talking to other women he had met. I said, “Uh….you are stilling talking to other women. Are you committed to us or not”. That was when I heard the famous line “I just need to keep my options open”. He said that he wanted to be with me, and he wanted things to work out, but he just needed to keep his options open, just in case things did not work out with me. I told him that apparently he did not see me as someone special, worthy of his time and effort. He saw me as just another single woman, available to date him. I asked him to please take me off his list of available women, because I was no longer an option for him. He just said “ok”. That was it.

From that day forward I knew I could truly go forward, build a new life, and make it what ever I wanted it to be. 6 months later I met my new H. I am so thankful for the M I have now!!! But that short attempt at reconciliation has been part of my healing. It was the final chapter that helped me to move forward.

You may end up back with your Ex. I don’t know. If she is genuinely repentant, and not just using you as one of the available single men in her life, then you guys have a great chance to build a new life. I hope so. If not, then this will still be a helpful chapter for you. I also caution you that you truly do not know what will happen with Ann yet. Is she looking for a clone of her deceased H? Who knows for sure? She is still learning, just as you are. I do think you are right to realize that it would be difficult for you to move there – or for her to move to GA. It sounds fun and romantic on the outside – but the reality is that someone is going to miss their son or daughters birthday party. Someone will miss seeing a grand child’s T-ball games. Either she will miss hers – or you will miss your future grand kids. Even if she turns out to be the love of your life – that geographic distance will be VERY hard on your M. And, as we all know, M is all ready tough enough!!!

Frankly – I would make any sudden moves just yet. Let a little time go by. Be open, and honest, but don’t go shopping for homes with your Ex just yet. And I would NOT tell the boys yet! Don’t get their hopes up yet.

WOF -

The man is engaged. He IS open to other options - he stated that earlier. It makes no difference to me what he does, but Ann deserves to know the truth of her situation.

GG has had the time now to be honest with his fiancee, and if he has, my apologies to him and all of you.

EXACTLY... very well said.

MEDC,

I am puzzled by your posts. Your anger is very evident. What do you want GG to do? What you want? What his exW wants? What Ann wants? What he wants? What is right which may be none of the options listed so far?

GG is going to do what he decides to do for reasons you or I cannot know and will not know. So while I understand you disapprove of him talking with his exW, they do share children and if nothing comes of this other than exW and he can be in the same room with the kids that would be great.

I won't and don't pretend to really know the situation with Ann. She seems like a nice lady but I have less chance of reading her mind that GG does, and certainly you cannot either.

So again where are you going with this?

I look forward to hearing your point.

JL

I am puzzled by your confusion... my words are very simple and straight froward. I really don't care what he does as far as his ex or Ann goes... what I do care about is that he treat people with the respect they deserve. If you read his intitial stated reason as to why he can't marry Ann... my angst at him is readily understandable... he is treating Ann with a disrespect similar to what a WS does to a BS.
I hope they have a good relationship for the kids sake. I have not advocated otherwise. But I do think he owes Ann a lot more than he has given her. Perhaps that will clear it up for you... if not... check with Believer since she also seems to follow the same logic.




and this from Noodle about sums up my feelings

"Perhaps that will clear it up for you... if not... check with Believer since she also seems to follow the same logic."

MEDC - Scary, isn't it? I remember you and I were on exact opposite sides on some issue - forget what it was. But you are absolutely right on this one.

The rest of the board (with a few exceptions) is in la-la land - ie: even though GG is ENGAGED, he needs to do what feels best.

very scary!

Maybe it is coming through the computer by osmosis!

We are all ALIENS and you two are the only HUMANS left!!

At least the world is now safe from STDS!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have been catching up on this thread and I have very mixed emotions. I know how it feels when the person who has known you best for years appears to want to make it all better again. It is hard to turn your back on a long history with someone. You want so much to believe that it can all be fixed. In fact, that is exactly why I fought so hard to save my M - I wasn't ready to build a new history with someone else. However, I agree that it is wrong to even consider a reconciliation when you are committed elsewhere. He is, in fact, starting an EA with his EW. And I am sure Georgia knows as I do how painful it is to discover any A even if it is with his EW. I would never want to inflict that kind of pain on another (maybe the OW). Tread carefully, Georgia. Make sure she is sincere before you make any decisions. And be kind to Ann.

My prayers are with you.

Nkay

"We are all ALIENS and you two are the only HUMANS left!!

At least the world is now safe from STDS!!!"

Gosh that hurt Mimi. I have always respected you for hanging in here and helping so many people.

I DO think lots of folks on the board are in lala land. GG is engaged. Ann lost her husband a few years ago, and now another member of her family.

I think she has been wanting to take it slow because GG is obviously not ready to commit. But he has promised to marry her. They are waiting for her children to accept the marriage. He has met her parents. They have discussed where to live, and looked at apartments.

It makes me very sad that folks here don't see anything wrong with his actions.

Me too. I'm amazed you would throw a good woman under a bus for a serial cheater. You're right - I can't believe it.

There's actually a lot of people who rubbished the idea that you should remain single for 1 year of every 5 years married - Harley says this. Not only are you emotionally unwell after a divorce, this type of situation is exactly what can happen. There are a lot of people on MB who should heed this as a salutory warning.

oh I think GG's been plenty dumb so far
but not morally reprehensible
he's not a man who knows what he wants

flighty/fickle/impulsive

nothing new here
he's not changed much

but
he's not evil

capriciousness is not criminal

and such a person is usually consistent in his inconsistency <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

let this be an example of what not to do

anyone who can fall in love really fast

propose marriage very quickly

can unfall & unpropose just as quickly

KWIM?

if it seems too good to be true ... consult your mother

LOL

Pep

no, of course not... since he had committed to another woman it was okay to have that type of conversation with his ex.... nothing morally wrong with that now is there. Perhaps you all are sharing a kool aid cup with Mimi on this one.