Until he sits Ann down and tells her the whole truth, IMHO, GG is as bad as an actively WS. This needs to happen and should have happened BEFORE he even had that talk with his W.

Hello..everytime I log on here I see a new round of discussion..

I just got off the phone with Ann. Told her the whole thing...everything. As I suspected...she took it all with the kind of selfless attitude that exemplifies who she is.

She told me how much she appreciated letting me know all of this. We talked a long time...about a lot of things. What we have both been through, the things that we have enjoyed together...how much she feels that I've helped her out of the 'cocoon' (her words) that she was living in.

And...true to who she is...she said that her prayer would be that xW's turn around is genuine and that we are able to restore not only our marriage....but the family ss well.

I asked that, as she had asked me to be patient with her...that she be patient with me. And...she said she certainly would. We did agree to remain "friends"..and to continue on during this time. I agreed to let her know what is happening.

As relates to the BPD thing..xW did say when we talked that she is being treated for BPD-II. I'm not sure (perhaps others here have a more learned opinion) if this would "explain" everything. Personally...I doubt it..but I'd be willing to listen.

So...anyway...another small piece of the CA'er whittled away. Not easy...not easy at all. We had already talked a long time this afternoon and I just couldn't tell her. But I knew I had to...so I called her back tonight.

Anyway...thanks for pestering me until I did what I needed to do..

Bravo. Now, I hope the next step with your W goes well. BPD is a very difficult to treat issue... and I would suggest that you go into this with your eyes wide open. Get as much onfo as you can.... but IMHO, while it may explain certain things, it doesn't explain everything away.
You owe it to yourself to make decisions that will give you the best chance for happiness. I pray you take that route.

(((Georgia)))..I knew you would and could talk to Ann...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />...to those who may have something ugly to say about this hug....

I'm recalling us talking about BPD and you not acceping this as a cause for your W's affair..

I wish your xW knew how she has always had a piece of my heart for some reason....

Maybe I relate to her because of having suffered from depression...

Who knows?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi..

I think of 2 countries when they are on the brink of conflict..(ie - Cuban missile crisis), and how one has to help the other find a way out....

I'm willing to extend a branch on this BPD thing. Do I think this is THE cause of all of her behavior? Not for a moment!! Am I willing to accept her sincere apology and use it as a cover? Possibly.

I think I know...deep down inside now...that there is a chance that we are going to recover. Talking to you...Mimi..my friend...I dread it. I'm not excited.

Even in our convo the other night...she said things like "You SHOULD have known something was wrong with me!"...etc. Always wanting to blame someone...anyone..but herself. But...intermingled with very, very sincere apologies...

And...assuming we get that far..I will have to face that I have hurt her by my actions..

This won't be easy...

The fat lady isn't even warming up yet...but has been added to the program.

Georgia

GG,

My husband has BP - to such an extreme that he has been hospitalized for it. Since that dark time in our lives, we agreed that he must manage it and not use it to excuse bad behavior.

He has NEVER gone so far off the moral compass as a BP as to flaunt another woman in front of me. His conscience is very acute - and when he recognized he was in an EA he came to me and told me that he needed to close the OW's access to his love bank.

Kasey's bad BP behavior was more in temper and controlling behaviors; but for the last 10 years, it has shown up as apathy and depression for his quality of life. (He hasn't met my emotional need for financial support for most of the time since his diagnosis; however, the last 8 months have found him studying skills that could develop into an ability to overcome his fears and step up.)

I made a determination a long time ago that I would never marry again. I am perfectly comfortable being alone or with my husband. However, I would never tolerate bad behavior from my husband once I reached this point of being ok being alone. He didn't know that until I separated from him 10 years ago, and I wasn't so anxious to reconcile. We'd meet in our minister's office and Kasey would lay out his demands and conditions for reconcilliation and I'd simply say, I didn't see myself doing those things and I didn't need to get back with him that badly. For two months his attitude was full of arrogance and bluster. After that, He started changing a bit on that tactic and softening.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is learn to find out what's so great about being by yourself, with Jeb, and living the full life that you do with building water features and ceramics and your faith study group. You do not need a woman to complete you right now and it just messes with your head when you need to be able to see things clearly in your wife's clean up process.

She needs to own it all - holding you totally blameless. You, however, have much to consider - especially your motives for rushing to end it - that you kept from us when we could have helped you through that dark time in your life. It will be very telling how truly remorseful she is when you disclose that part of your life to her. She may well take it to over and you are off the hook for trying to reconcile something that clearly is still repulsive to you, even though she is as you say, "The love of your life". Allow her to be as forgiving as you offered to be, had she cut herself off from the OM while you were still married. If she isn't, well, you have your answer.

Perhaps it's time for your wife to work with Jennifer?

Georgia...

Admittedly, I don't know all of your history, so forgive me if this is not helpful information to you...I'm not certain if you still live in Georgia, or if you do, what part, however, my father has Bipolar Disorder and lives in the Atlanta area...He went unmedicated for YEARS...My mother had finally taken all that she could and divorced him after 40 years of marriage-an extremely tough decision...Since then, my dad has finally found an AMAZING doctor in Atlanta that has treated him successfully...This doctor has devoted much of his life to understanding and treating people affected with Bipolar Disorder...His website is quite informative, and BOTH of my parents highly regard him...My mother has said that if my father had found him years ago, they might still be married...Anyway, here is the link Carman Research Perhaps, if nothing else, it might provide you with some additional helpful information...

God Bless,

Mrs. W

Good morning all -

Yes, I live in Ga about 2 hours from Atlanta.

I have thought about this, and I believe that IF we get as far as talking reconciliation, my first condition would be that I want to sit down with her doctor, alone, and get the truth. I'm not sure that xW is capable of passing truth along....whether intentionally or not.

Some of you may recall, just days before our divorce, she suggested to me that her dr. suspected BPD. I spent several days doing all the homework I could, including talking to a psychiatrist at the local Medical College, and was told by 3 different sources...all trained in BPD, that her actions did not equate to BPD symptoms. However, I am also willing to note that I read that symptoms can vary widely from person to person.

I will get back to this later.

My thankfullness this morning if for the graciousness demonstrated by Ann last night. She is so amazing...to take such information with such kindness. I was so nervous about sharing that..and she put me at such ease.

And, it is going to be wonderful to be back at my church this morning. I have missed it so much while I was gone.

In more mundane things...I planted pansies yesterday and it was so nice to get my hands in dirt again. I loved it...

Thank you all for your concern, more later. Off to get ready for church.

Georgia

I recommend for you to schedule another session with Steve Harley.

I encourage you to be OPEN AND HONEST with him, including sharing how you became a WH..you know, the PA and stuff...

What do you think about this?

Hi Mimi..

I may schedule another session with SH. He already knows all the details.

Great! I hope you do that. I think it will be helpful especially since he knows the whole story....

Yes, I was talking with my pastor this morning. He is trying to find the best local source to help us through this. There is one guy locally who I believe is a near SH clone...but he is extremely hard to see.

My pastor is going to call him...as well as the counseling center in a nearby city who he knows has had success in difficult cases.

I mentioned to him this morning that I may call SH again.

Georgia

I am glad you told Ann. I don't think it is a good idea to remain in contact with Ann while trying to reconcile with XW. It would be as disrespectful as her continuing contact with OM. I can't see how you can really maintain that friendship while exploring reconciliation.

How do you see that working for you? Wouldn't it be like eating cake? I am sorry for the predicament you find yourself in. I wish my fantasy had been right when I thought you were just working on your pond, deck, and church activities and trying to heal.

I think it may not be so bad for Ann since it really seemed she was also having second thoughts about being in a serious, commited relationship with you in such a short amount of time. Hindsight has shown that I was wrong to encourage you in that.

I hope you're not setting yourself up for a disappointment in your wife's resolve and ability to do everything necessary to have a future together.

see how great FROSTY can be?

very <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> cool everybody ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SH appointment Wednesday...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Everyone stand back....time for me to rant a bit.

I have NO CLUE what the next step is..or should be..or what I want it to be. I sometimes feel almost sick thinking about reconciling...and at other times get excited thinking about how nice it would be if we could re-establish a vision of traveling together....watching our grandkids, etc. I ALWAYS felt so at home...at peace..and content when xW and I were together. Is it possible that we could EVER be that way again? Or am I just blindly asking for some more of the same and allowing my CA'ing tendency to suck me right back in?

If it's really BPD induced...then am I heading towards a life of more of this??? or should her meds control her actions? The 2 counselors who actually talked to her / I both commented that she was extremely self-centered....everything seemed to revolve around her and her desires...

Once she finds out my shortcomings...am I then (rightfully?) to be subjected to a lifetime of "how could you???".....

Rarely through this whole mess have I been as confused as I am right now.

I vascillate between thinking that there is some hope of "normalcy" in my life again...and thinking that with just one phone call...xW has again demonstrated her power to interrupt my life.

Rhetorical rant...sigh...

I would suggest contacting a counselor yourself... not a MB coach... and asking them what types of things you can expect as a result of this disease. You can also (in addition to) sit down with one of your xw's therapists (she should be managed by a psychiatrist and not a FP) and talk to them about the same.
While you envision a wonderful life with the person you feel you were married to before... ask yourself if it is possible that she can reappear or is it that you want it so badly that you can put aside some very rational fears and concerns.
I wish you all the best luck with this.

GG......you dont HAVE to remarry her. Just date her. The true person will show in no time.

PS. I personally would NEVER go back to someone that actually divorced me. That meant they totally gave up in my book. They had time to see that dating around is not cracked up to what they want it to be.......THEN, they want to come running back home. That is TOO late IMHO.

Georgia...this is good...SIT with your FEELINGS of CONFUSION or whatever and DO NOT fall prey to your IMPULSE to DO SOMETHING.

I don't find anything whatsoever unusual or abnormal about your current feelings.

I had the EXACT SAME ANXIETY, FRIGHT AND CONFUSION at the thought of reconciling with my FWH...

It's OK to FEEL...

I think you AVOID FEELINGS by your ACTIONS....

Where's the rule that states that LIFE is supposed to be EASY and you are not as likely as all of us to FEEL OUT OF CONTROL..or even CRAZY?

BTW, Starting Over..Georgia is the one who filed for D..not his wife....