sorry to thread jack but if your only separated and haven't divorced yet and we have custody court in a while, would you still stay play nice?

Until my wife had me arrested i would have but now its by the letter of the agreement, I wont even turn the kids over to the grandparents.

I have a rule that I followed when I was a cop... it serves me in almost any situation... I am nice, until it is time to not be nice. I make the call based on what is in my sons, my and lastly his mom's best interest... in that order. The answers for me usually wind up very clear when I follow that formula.
And expecially if there is to be custody court in a while, I would be nice... judges frown upon spouses being harsh (it is very subjective reasoning on the part of the judge... but it factors in!).

Here's the thing. I will use my sitch as an example.

My wife is the mother of my kids. She provided the egg and the womb. That entitles her to certain legal rights. But, that does not make her a mother. Not in the moral sense.

The OM, if he were still around, provided nothing to this family...or for my kids. That is except heartache and pain. He is entitled to nothing. Not respect. Not inclusion in family events. Nothing.

I told my wife a while ago that if we divorce and she ends up with the OM, that the OM would never be welcome at any family events. Ever. Take my son's birthday, which is a few days after Christmas. I have the kids for the 10 days following Christmas, so his birthday will fall during the time they are with me (I have them most of the time anyway). Were my wife to be with the OM, either married or dating, then she knows that he would be unwelcome to the birthday party. She would be free to come, as it is her son too. But the OM would not be allowed.

Now, if we divorce and she marries someone else...that would be a different story. Then I would evaluate that guy based on who he is and if he is a good influence on my children. But the OP can NEVER be a good influence on my children.

All I do is confuse my kids, if I teach them adultery is wrong, that what Mom and OP did is wrong...and then I act like I condone their relationship.

You are correct...there are battles you need to select in your fight with a WS. But there are also boundaries which they must not be allowed to cross.

My wife knows that I am serious about this...and I will not back down. She knows that I have the kids most of the time...and for her to be able to get them for special events, or to be a part of special events, that there are a few things that I will not allow. Thus, I think that is a major reason the Troll is not around. She knows I am serious.

Sure, there are times when I would like her help. Like this week, when my oldest son wanted to go to the gym to workout and my wife wouldnt take him. So he called me (they were with her for her visitation) and asked if I would take him there for that hour. I told him to ask his Mom if it was okay. Her response? She got angry and told him "no." He was very upset. And all I could say was "Sorry, buddy...I'm here for you." The next day, I picked them up, and one of the first things we did was go to the gym. Not to slam her...but because I knew it was important to him.

But in the end, who do you think my son is pulling close to, and who is he pulling away from?

My point to this is that later, she saw this. And I had to call her concerning a school baseball pitching clinic his coach wanted him in on Wednesday nights. Considering her anger, she would have said "no." Tuesdays and Wednesdays are her visitation days. But considering how my son responded to her because of the gym issue, she agreed that he could go...but of course, I would have to come get him and bring him back to her place.

In the end, my son got what he needed...which is all I wanted.

I am very lenient on the visitation stuff. If she wanted them to go with her somewhere, and it was during my time and nothing was going on, she knows that I have no problem with that.

But she also knows that I have a few boundaries that she will NEVER cross. And one of them is the Troll. I cant control the Troll being around the kids on Tuesdays and Wednesdays (that is AFTER she would get married...as before, I can control that!!). But I can make sure the kids are protected as much as possible the rest of the time. And that they also will know, just like with this gym incident, who is looking out for them. And also know who this guy is and what he means to them and their family.

If I dont do this, if I allow the OM (if he married my wife) into our lives, if I condoned him being around the kids by allowing him to pick the kids up...I am saying to the kids that this situation is alright. And it isnt...and it never will be! Not her relationship with him. No matter if they marry. No matter if they spend 30 years together.

and that, mortorman, is how i feel as well.

someone said i might need my bf or new husband to pick the kids up one time..

well, 2 things.
first off, i would never ask someone else to pick up my kids.
and secondly, any bf i may have is NOT an affair one! it is someone i met post marriage, they did not destroy the family unit, they did break the marriage rules. BIG DIFFERENCE. i would be very careful what man i would let around my children. they MUST be a good influence, be a good man, etc..

now, if ex and ow were to ask MY forgiveness, ask GOD's forgiveness, sit down with my children and explain that yes, what they did was wrong, it is not honorable or right, they were very wrong to do it, they begged forgiveness,etc... then i might be a little more lenient. but, seeing how they do not feel they did anything wrong, THAT is never going to happen.

i have been seeing someone now for 8 months. my kids still have not met him and i have not yet met his daughter. not that we don't think we would be good for them, but we want to be sure the timing is right, etc. he is a good man, a christian very involved in his church, etc... morals, values, set goals and beliefs. i, and my ex for that matter, should have no problem having a man like this around my children. BUT, even tho he is a good man, i still wouldn't ask him to go and pick up my kids for MY time with them.

Mortorman, i know you very firmly stick to your guns on these things, as do I. I am wondering, are we doing things the Christian way by being like this? I know many who would say I should forgive and move on. But I am trying to be careful here what I am teaching my children. do you know i could have had trouble with the legal system for actually being honest with the children about their father's affairs? i was told by legal counsel NOT to do that! it saddens me that our judicial system advocates keeping the truth from our children.

mlhb

Our children are all grown. It is a mixed family - my 2 boys, and WH's boy and 3 daughters, and 2 step-daughters. OW has taken my place at all the family gatherings. I told my boys that I thought it was disrespectful to have her there. A lot of people here thought that wasn't right.

I want all my kids to enjoy time together. But I also let them know that my WH and I are still married and it was not appropriate to have OW at family get togethers.

I'm not willing to pretend that we are all one big happy family.

Right on, Believer!

I think the lack of teaching our children what is wrong and disrespectful in terms of adultery only fosters more generations of the same bad and unacceptable behavior.

I believe in order to repair the wide spread virus of broken marriages attributed to adultery starts at the grass roots by teaching our children.

Ed Zachary

Forgiveness and condonation are two separate issues.


Yes, we all could get in trouble. But there are ways of teaching right and wrong without specifically trashing the OP or WS. And one big way is to never show the kids anything but what is right in our actions.

Then, we can teach what Scripture says...what is right and wrong. The kids can then put two and two together all by themselves.

You are doing right with the guy you are seeing. I will also do the same once I reach that point.

You are doing fine!

We can still model the right behavior and talk to our children about adultery and its wrongness in generic terms, mentioning no names. Children are smart, they'll connect the dots.

well, without getting into a long story, bottom line is the KIDS knew about the affairs before i did and THEY brought them to my attention. see, ex thought he was being sneaky by spending time with ow(men) plural, with kids present.

they eventually innocently would tell me "mommy, we went to dinner with so and so" and "we went to so and so's house and played with her kids" etc... all times i was not invited to.

then this current ow is on fire dept.. it was "mommy daddy is always talking to so and so... isn't she married?" and on and on.. so they knew before i did. that is how it got brought up. they do understand that what their dad did was wrong and they do know that is why he does not live here anymore.

thank you for telling me i am doing fine mortorman, when sometimes i sure question whether i am doing the right things. i put EVERYTHING into God's hands and since i started doing that, i have not gone wrong. we pray everynight "dear God, please help us to remember you are forever in control and that we do not need to worry about anything because YOU will provide for all of our needs. Help us to turn EVERYTHING over to You."

that is our prayer.
mlhb

All of our children have been raised in a Christian home. Sadly, when WH had the affair, he took OW to our daughter's home to spend nights. Our daughter didn't say "no" to WH.

Now she is 26 with two beautiful boys. She is cheating on her wonderful husband, and this is the second OM. Oddly, she confessed to me, and not her father.

and the cycle continues huh believer?
it is very sad.
i hope and pray to break that cycle before it ever gets a chance to start.

must be hard to hear her talk to you about being a "cheater".. are her om married as well?

mlhb

Totally with MM on this one. Sorry but if he can't pick them up then they can stay home with mom.

The strange thing is that I didn't really like her husband when he was the boyfriend. I thought she was too young (19)to get so serious.

But he proved me wrong, has been a great husband, provider, and father.

One guy she cheated with was an ex boyfriend who treated her badly. The other was a ONS. She went out with her "friends" to get away from her kids for a night.

It is sad. I'm the only one that knows. I did have a looonnngggggg talk with her about how hurtful this is to her marriage and boys.

mlhb,

There is no reason for you to allow your children to be alone w/OW. You are not even divorced yet right? I made sure our agreement stipulated that neither one of us would be shacking up w/members of the opposite sex while the kids are around.

Ex-H lives w/OW and their OC and they still haven't gotten married. OW leaves when our children are there overnight. The kids like her, but we live by example, and she and ex are setting a poor example. There is no way I would allow OW to pick up the children. The way I see it, she has no respect for my kids anyway.

From Penalty Kill

First, let me say to the original poster that IMO insisting that your WH abide by the terms of your custody pickup/dropoff arrangements is in no way, shape or form being a w(b)itch. And my reasoning has very little to do with infidelity. Let me explain.

Yes, the courts are concerned if one parent makes visitation difficult. In this case, that might take the form of saying, "I have the kids in another state on your visitation day. Come pick them up there". But requesting that the father adhere to the terms of the agreement does not constitute an impediment, and I doubt that any judge would see it that way.

It is important to remember that the rules are there for the children's protection, not for the convenience of the mother and father. The court knows this very well.

While I was reading the different responses it struck me that some of the responses might be quite a bit different if the WS in this case was a female and the BS was a male. What if the mother wanted her boyfriend to pick up the children? How would people feel then? Would that feel as ok and safe? I doubt it.

The terms of custody arrangements are written such that both parents must follow the rules. There cannot be one set of rules for a mother and one set of rules for a father.

Further, pertaining to this case, what is OW's driving record? What if it is unsafe? What if she likes to have a drink after work? The OW is nothing but a stranger to the children for now - she is not married to their father. I would not let my children ride with a stranger. It is unsafe.

Just my opinion.

Sadly, what everyone is sayin will be all for naught. If mlhb is divorced, I hate to say it, but there is not much that can be done. Her EX is with OW. The BEST thing to do now is be as peaceful as possible and think of the kids best interest.

Those who are saying NO, keep them away, call your lawyer, forbid her from seeing OW.....they dont know what they are talking about and obviously are not divorced with OP in the picture.

mlhb.....do you want drama??? or do you want to deal with what is actually going to happen and something you dont have control over??? Im speaking from personal experience from TWO sides.......unless the OW is a danger to your kids.....your best bet is to get along with her. Now that your marriage is over.

Its up to you though.......cause alot of static, or deal with reality. JMHO!! I think you are great mlhb, very mature and you have alot of common sense. We all want our lives to go totally along with the Bibles teachings, unfortunately the way the world is today is kinda difficult.

I believe there is more than the above two choices (dimensions) available.

I believe parents can, in a peaceful manner, let their children know through modeling and teaching that adultery is wrong. That breaking that important vow of fidelity is not to be taken lightly or is acceptable.

Just because someone is divorced does not say they should now become complacent regarding their children's education in terms of marriage and what it stands for.

To not teach them infidelity is wrong is setting them up for a future where marriage is viewed as a temporary state, a state where if you "feel" differently later on because you met someone else you can act on it by leaving the marriage.

IMVHO, I believe this complacentcy in one of the primary factors why marriage is where it is today.

I can't understand this POV. I agree that talking the OW down is counterproductive but why try and build a relationship with her?

I don't know about the laws in the states, but in the UK even if an OW is married to a WH, she has no legal rights over his children whatsoever. She can never be anything but a glorified babysitter.

Building a working relationship with the ex is what should be worked towards. The OW is nothing, legally and morally.

Alph.

here in the states she will NEVER have any legal say over my kids either. she already tried, via my ex, to be their mother by them trying to file for custody of the kids and take them away from me! well, that fell flat quick trust me.

i don't ever plan to have a "relationship" with ow, she is nothing to me. i just try to get along with ex as best i can, but i have nor do i want anything to do with her.

mlhb