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Carina: You said that your father has a Narcissist personality disorder. Then you might want to read this. Again, this paper is from a Dr. that works on this type of disorder.

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Narcissists are so much trouble that only people with special prior training (i.e., who were raised by narcissists) get seriously involved with them. Sometimes narcissists' children become narcissists, too, but this is by no means inevitable, provided stable love was given by someone, such as the non-narcissist parent or grandparents. Beyond that, a happy marriage will heal many old wounds for the narcissist's child. But, even though children of narcissists don't automatically become narcissists themselves and can survive with enough intact psychically to lead happy and productive lives away from their narcissistic parents, because we all love our parents whether they can love us back or not, children of narcissists are kind of bent -- "You can't get blood out of a stone," but children of narcissists keep trying, as if by bonding with new narcissists we could somehow cure our narcissistic parents by finding the key to their heart. Thus, we've been trained to keep loving people who can't love us back, and we will often tolerate or actively work to maintain connections with narcissistic individuals whom others, lacking our special training, find alienating and repellent from first contact, setting ourselves up to be hurt yet again in the same old way. Once narcissists know that you care for them, they'll suck you dry -- demand all your time, be more work than a newborn babe -- and they'll test your love by outrageous demands and power moves.


I too was raised by a Narcissist person, My father, I never knew it until I started studying this personality disorder.
That would explain was I was so pulled to my ex!


ME:46
DS:15
DS:12
In a relationship w/NPD for 17 yrs.
ended:05/22/06: Thank you God!
Mark Twain: "As I got older, my father got smarter"
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Sag, I'm learning from this if anyone is. I trust Dr. Phil's wisdom too most of the time. Oh, the power moves and "tests..." What creates a narcissist? I think I remember that it's common in first born sons from very strong mothers who are also like this... that's my ex. Do you know?

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I again will have to refer to the text book theory:

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There are different "beyond.html" \l "nar" of how narcissists are made. Some psychologists trace NPD to early infantile neglect or abuse, and some blame over-indulgence and indiscriminate praise by parents who don't set limits on what's acceptable from their children. Others say that NPD shows up in adolescence. Some say narcissists tend to peak around middle age and then mellow out. Others say that narcissists stay pretty much the same except they tend to depression as they get older and their grandiose fantasies are not supported, plus they're not as good-looking as they used to be. The narcissists I've known have apparently always been "that way" and they get worse as they get older, with dramatic regression of their personas after the deaths of their parents and other personal authority figures who have previously exerted some control over the narcissists' bad behavior. And, yes, chronic depression gets to be obvious at least by their forties but may have always been present. Depressed narcissists blame the world, of course, and not themselves for their personal disappointments.
Essentially, narcissists are unable or unwilling to trust either the world or other people to meet their needs. Perhaps they were born to parents unable to connect emotionally and, thus, as infants learned not to let another person be essential to them in any way. Perhaps NPD starts later, when intrusive or abusive parents make it dangerous for the child to accept other people's opinions and valuations. Maybe it comes from a childhood environment of being treated like royalty or little gods. Whatever the case, narcissists have made the terrible choice not to love. In their imaginations, they are complete unto themselves, perfect and not in need of anything anyone else can give them. (NB: Narcissists do not count their real lives -- i.e., what they do every day and the people they do it with -- as worth anything.) Their lives are impoverished and sterile; the price they pay for their golden fantasies is high: they'll never share a dream for two.
Now, it is possible to have a relatively smooth relationship with a narcissist, and it's possible to maintain it for a long time. The first requirement for this, though, is distance: this simply cannot be done with a narcissist you live with. Given distance, or only transient and intermittent contact, you can get along with narcissists by treating them as infants: you give them whatever they want or need whenever they ask and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way. But note: they are not infants; infants develop and mature and require this kind of care for only a brief period, after which they are on the road to autonomy and looking after themselves, whereas narcissists never outgrow their demands for dedicated attention to their infantile needs 168 hours a week. Adult narcissists can be as demanding of your time and energy as little babies but without the gratification of their growing or learning anything from what they suck from you. Babies love you back, but adult narcissists are like vampires: they will take all you can give while giving nothing back, then curse you for running dry and discard you as a waste of their precious time.
It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the ****** out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure.


ME:46
DS:15
DS:12
In a relationship w/NPD for 17 yrs.
ended:05/22/06: Thank you God!
Mark Twain: "As I got older, my father got smarter"
Joined: Nov 2006
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Before I started studying this research, I blame myself for our breakup. Yes, I gave all that I could but doubted myself. Thinking was there anything else I could have done to save this relationship. Because I learned the cause and effect, I can now understand that “enough would never be enough” for an NPD.

Last edited by sag06; 12/02/06 09:43 PM.

ME:46
DS:15
DS:12
In a relationship w/NPD for 17 yrs.
ended:05/22/06: Thank you God!
Mark Twain: "As I got older, my father got smarter"
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 224
S
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 224
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The life I had is a ghost too


Strange that you and Carina use the term Ghost: I too felt like a ghost in her life. I was there but never a part of her or her life. She was allowed to go alone to her parent's, friends or whatever by herself. One time (God, is this the unstatement of the year; once!) was very upset with her and wanted to visit my sister with the boys and I alone. She got very upset and stated (or should I say shouted) "what are you doing to do, talk about me". But as always, Mr. nice gave in and told her I was sorry and let her come as well. If I wanted to go someplace along I would get the "20 questions" regularly. But if I wanted to know were she had been, it was "you are trying to control me. Or I had to pick up a few thing after work. Oh, yea it take two hours to pick up two items at the store. Right!


ME:46
DS:15
DS:12
In a relationship w/NPD for 17 yrs.
ended:05/22/06: Thank you God!
Mark Twain: "As I got older, my father got smarter"
Joined: Oct 2000
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Hi Carina,

No advice, I've already given you mine... This divorce thing is just tacky, no other way to define it...

Make it a great day! Heck, go all out and make it a great year!!!

Hugs,

Jan


A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
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