Julie, alcohol is alcohol. The alcohol in hard liquor is the same as the alcohol in beer. Alcohol is alcohol. This is a CLASSIC excuse of an alcoholic. They think they can just handle it if they switch to beer, wine, gin, etc, etc, etc. It never works for long. If he has problems with overly ripe bananas, why would he continue to eat bananas AT ALL?

But it is good that you bring this up, because this is one of the tricks that alcoholics pull on their spouses to continue drinking so he may use this on you. Alanon RUINS this for alcoholics because they know all our tricks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How is your own drinking?

Well sure, alcohol is alcohol, but there are different strengths/proofs/etc. and like I said, it's true, sort of, that he handles beer fine & shots not. I've seen it w/my own eyes, for H and for our friends.

Not arguing w/you, trying to prepare myself for that one though because I'm POSITIVE it'll come up. He swore off shots/liquor a few years ago as a result of an "incident" and we drank socially without (major) incident since.

See, drudging this stuff up in my own memory is helping me...yesterday I was almost defending his right to drink beer on occasion, today I think I'm starting to see how backwards that is.

Not confident he'll agree, but won't know till I try.

My own drinking is fine really, thank you for asking. I can think of ONE time in my life in which I drank so much that I blacked out/passed out, and I hated it. HATED it. I hate feeling like I no longer have control over my own self. I'll drink socially now but not because I have an urge to do so or even particularly enjoy it. I'm tense when we go out drinking...will we get home safe? Will everyone else get home safe? Will we get pulled over? Are the kids OK? I'll have a few & then back off, and drink water the rest of the night. I almost always insist on leaving before bar close (maybe not strange to anybody here, but just WEIRD to our friends - you're supposed to close the bar) because I don't want to be in the "closing time" traffic or run the risk of somebody inviting us over for more drinking.

This reaction was a result of the ALCOHOL in the hard liqour, and beer has ALCOHOL. Wine has ALCOHOL. Alcoholics have a problem with ALL alcohol, not just some. If he acts violent with hard liquor it is only a matter of time until he escalates with beer, etc. The only solution is to stop ALL drinking, drinking selectively does not work. Alcohol is alcohol, Julie.

Fair enough

Hey Julie:

Did you know that people who grow up in alcoholic homes overwhelmingly face trouble with alcohol when we become adults? Some studies suggest that 80 percent of us will either become addicts/alcoholics ourselves or marry one. Or both. How's that for odds?

When you go to your Alanon meeting today ask them for a copy of Paths to Recovery. It's a book that explains the concepts and practices of Alanon. It'll make the meetings much more understandable and helpful to you.

Good luck to you. Heading to Alanon is the best thing you could do for yourself.

Tru

Hey Tru, thanks for your post.

Yep, I sure did know I was likely destined to still fight w/alcohol one way or another, it was pounded into my head throughout my teen years.

What I didn't know was that I hadn't beat it after all. I mean, I'm no alcoholic nor will I become one, but I also thought I hadn't married one. And my family would likely agree, as H & I & our kids are the picture of what a "normal" family is *supposed* to be!

(Text book again for you, Mel, I'm sure!)

I'll ask about the book.

You know, of all the groups I'd like to join & interests I'd like to pursue, I'm shocked to end up where I'm at! I know it's for the best. A kick in the teeth, but for the best...

Update: H was over for 2 hours tonight. Turns out he actually blacked out (or whatever) before we even left the bar...he doesn't remember all the details of the evening; nothing from once we were home.

I gave him a re-play, and he said he swears he'll never, ever EVER do a shot again. Ever. I told him he's said that before. He said he knows, but he means it this time - he was sick all day yesterday & today, nauseous in fact, as he learned more details of what he'd done. I told him that's not enough for me, that I need him to never, ever drink again. Ever. He spent a good long while thinking, I prepared dinner for the kids...

He finally asked if he agrees to do this, will I trust him if he goes to a show (friends of ours are in a band) not to drink? I said that's a good question, and that he really needs to answer that, and that trust is broken a lot easier than it's earned. He agreed. I asked him if he trusts himself, and he wasn't sure.

"I know that I can go to a show, have 2, and STOP...and if we go to a bar after, I can have 2, and STOP...and say NO to any offers after the fact"

I said that is fine, but I know if I let him back home, and I know he's out having 4, I will worry if he's going to get home safe. Or if some innocent motorists will die because of his choice. That my life will no longer be at the mercy of alcohol.

He thought for a long while again, and said he's confident that within 6 months he'll have NO friends. I said I'm sad that your friends are only your friends w/o beer. He said they're still his friends, but he won't be able to have fun. I said I'm sad to hear that, and let him know that I'm willing to accept he may not be able to do this, and that I'll be OK. He said it's not a matter of choosing beer over me, but...I don't remember how he phrased the rebuttal for that.

Anyway, I said I don't feel ready for him to come home. He asked if that's what it takes for him to come home, and I said yes, this is a boundary that I need for me as I'm trying to gain some normalcy in my own life. Eventually he said he needs more time to think and left.

He was not angry, he said he understood why I'm insisting this and he doesn't hold it against me. Me, I'm not sad, I'm not hurt, I'm not worried. I was, and I had a lot of anxiety about this discussion...and I considered for a moment telling him OK, 4 beer limit - but I stood my ground. I told him I'm willing to help him and that this would be hard for me too, but it'd be for the best for us.

Anyway, there's the update.

OH, and he did talk to the kids - told him that stuff's broken because he had too much to drink, he lost control, and he messed up. Told them that I'm not sure I forgive him yet or feel comfortable with him in the home, but that he's going to do everything he can to fix it. He told them he is a man of his word and it will never happen again. He told them he's not sure if I'll let him stay here tonight but we're going to talk and if he doesn't stay here he will be safe & will keep in contact with them.

So, that's that. I don't know when I'll talk to him again, and at the moment I don't feel a need to know. I want him to make his decision on his own, not while under pressure, etc.

Good job. You were very strong to stand up for yourself, your husband, and your kids. At this rate, you will break the cycle of your history.

I think now is the time to be very firm. He cannot deny that alcohol is no problem for him because the evidence is right there in your home.

It is good for your children too, as they see that this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

Thanks believer.

No, there was absolutely NO denial in what he said. He said he knows he has a problem (a few years ago when this came up he vehemently FOUGHT me on that little fact!) and he knows I have no reason to believe or trust him, and he doesn't want to be divorced, and he knows he wants to be back in his home.

I do think he may decide to give up alcohol. I think he knows it's right, but I can understand it's tough for him and honestly, I'm glad he didn't just agree tonight. It wouldn't have felt real to me, I would have feared resentment if he'd just agreed to appease me. He said he's not worried about what other people will think (I said I realize this will inevitably cause some friends to pick on him & call him names, etc.) but it's hard to imagine him changing his whole life.

We'll be OK, one way or another. And if I'm a married woman a year from now, I'll be a married woman who made my boundaries clear and stuck to them and who was a great support for her husband. And if I'm not...well at least I'll still be done with all the sleepless nights!!

Julie, this is why I want you to go to Alanon. First off, a recovering alcoholic cannot put himself in precarious situations. If he were honest, he would tell you HE doesn't trust himself in such a situation. Especially a newly recovering alcoholic. That is playing russian roulette and is a plan that is doomed to failure. Planning to fail is planning to fail and this is a plan to fail.

Secondly, every alcholic "swears" to never do it again. Again and again, and again, and again and again. I am sure he means it, too. We all did. We also meant whatevr we had to mean in order to get our spouse, the judge, the employer off our back. And most of us were "men of our word." But wasn't your H a "man of his word" when he promised BEFORE to do this? See what I mean? Talk is cheap.

And most importantly, Julie, this will happen again and again until your H addresses the problem. Stopping drinking is not addressing the problem. Your H has a living problem that has led to this. That is what AA can help him with. They can teach him how to live SOBER. He does not know how to live that way.

In fact, he is already planning his first bar visit and bargaining with you so he can continue living in a drinking environment. this white knuckle effort at not drinking will only last as long as his remorse over his last bad drunk and then he will be back at it again.

And lastly, I would suggst that you ask him to go to AA. Ask him this NOW while you have him on his knees and he feels great shame and remorse. Use this shame as leverage to HELP HIM, Julie.

Go to Alanon, Julie, ok? Go to alot of meetings and learn everything you can.

Mel, this is a start.

This board (mainly you) has challenged me to step outside what I'd typically do and I did that. I am trying to help him. Depending on what he decides on this, whenever he decides it, I WILL mention AA. But he may decide he can't swear off alcohol, at which point our M dies.

It's a start. It's a start...

Julie, and I challenge you to use your leverage to persuade him to get some help and go to AA. He likely won't be able to stop drinking unless he goes into a program of recovery, that is my point. He can swear off all he wants, but it is of no avail unless he does something about the underlying problem. He doesn't need to swear off alcohol, he needs to get into recovery so he can learn to live without it.

Post deleted by Swanner

Hi Swanner, thank you for your post and for your perspective.

I don't necessarily feel rail-roaded...now...though I did the other day when I first started this thread. I defended his right to drink 'a few beers', I said he's a great husband, I disputed allegations that he's an alcoholic.

I spent some time thinking, while still feeling defensive. Often on this board we witness 2x4s because they're necessary. Honestly, if I'd been able, as in if it hadn't been Sunday, I would have filed for divorce already...but I know that wouldn't have been rational. What he did was actually not marriage-ending, but from where I'm sitting right now, YES, it is life-altering. For me, anyway.

6 months ago I wouldn't have said he had a drinking problem. Well, let me re-pharse that: 6 months ago I would have said he'd HAD a drinking problem, but he's "gotten better", and none of us has been hurt &none of our things have been broken in a LONG time. And he only has a few beers after work once, maybe twice a week. And he only goes out drinking ONE night most weekends. So, we only deal with hangovers about TWICE a month. And he only misses work once or twice a month. I'd tell you that he has not yet had a DUI but I worry about it EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes out with or without me, that he's only ever hit another car drunk in front of our house, while parking, no police or injuries involved, that even though I find him HORRIBLY attractive, it still disgusts me when he decides to be "romantic" after a night out with the boys & beer.

I would have told you he's not an alcoholic. My dad is an alcoholic and he ruined my childhood and I've only recently realized I'm letting him ruin parts of my adulthood as well and my husband is NOT like my dad.

I think I would have told you all of those things because my judgment on the subject is a little clouded, because I was in denial w/o even realizing it, and I PUT UP WITH IT because he IS a great guy otherwise.

What it boils down to now is that I'm not going to live anymore constantly running from, competing with, worrying about, and hating alcohol. There is only ONE WAY to guarantee this. Well, two actually - either he comes home & never drinks again by whatever means necessary, or we divorce. I do NOT want to railroad my husband, and I will not. If he cannot make this change then I accept that - in fact I honestly don't think he can, he's had these friends & drinking partners since he's 14, he'll be 30 tomorrow. That's huge. But for me, I will never be a confident woman, a good mom, a dedicated employee, a timely bill-payer, a responsible pet owner, an honest daughter, a giving aunt, a forgiving friend, or ME unless I get far, far away from alcohol.

As for Mel's firmness with me, I understand it and don't wish she'd "gone easy" on me. She has poured her heart into many threads on this board because she's been there. I don't know that I can follow her instructions verbatim, heck I don't know that I'll have to - H has the freedom to walk away - but I know if she hadn't told me H is a drunk, if she hadn't told me he needs to stop drinking, well H would probably be home right now & I'd probably spend next weekend worrying again.

I can't and I won't. I told H this. He respects it, and is trying to decide if he can participate or not.

We will be OK, one way or another. I'm 29 and for the first time in my life I took a stand for me & my kids yesterday.

Julie I tried to e-mail this to you:

Please do not be offended by it:

Julie:

I’m in the same boat as your H, but I’ve done something about it. You should look into Ala Non for yourself. I’m in AA and things have turned around somewhat already on day 10.

Right now what H needs is another drinker to discuss how he is feeling. Part of the AA steps is helping others. This is one of the things that keep ME from drinking as well. I would like to help if you could somehow relate to him there is somebody you’d like him to talk to. It must be on his terms and he must be willing to talk. If not there is noting I can do.

Your husband is in a delirious state of despair, anger and resentment. Likely he sees you as a big problem and as he slips further away he see’s you in a more negative light. As he gets worse, so do you. The world is against him and he is escaping from it by not facing the issues.

Likely he is still trying to prove to himself he is a normal drinker. We do this a lot. We switch brands, booze type, drink only on weekends or special occasions. But we fail every time. Each time we become more resolved, but get deeper. We can NEVER have just one when we drink. We hide it and it gets deeper.

My wife was on the way to kicking me out and I did something about it. H needs to talk, and not to you or friends. He needs to let go, realize and surrender to the issues.

If he admits to having a problem this is the first step.

Does he believe in God or a higher power….whatever the definition is to him?

e-mail me first if you want but please let him know there is someone to talk to. I'll then give you my #.

The only way is for him to identify with another exactly like him, but one who does not know him. What I do is tell my story, and through that he should realize what must be done.

I wish the best for you!

j_gerbaud@yahoo.com

So you are the one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

DedicatedFather, thank you for your post. Not sure where your email would have gone to...I do have an acct. that I can't check from work - ironically it's our shared acct. & I'm not sure if I should hope he doesn't see your email before I get to it!

Nothing you said offended me a bit. This is, after all, the world wide web and an open forum!!

To clarify a few points, he's not in denial nor is he angry or resentful towards me now. He admitted wholeheartedly that he has a problem. Last night, when we talked, he wasn't ready to say goodbye to alcohol altogether and I don't know if he will be, so there is *some* denial I suppose, but he is by no means angry at me. Told me he doesn't expect me to trust him or take his 'word'.

I appreciate your concern considering you are going thru this yourself. What struck me is you saying he needs to talk to someone...that he doesn't know. Now I already know some "friends" will be HORRIBLE influences if he does decide to stop drinking, but I didn't know relying on a REAL friend would be bad. In an earlier post I described how a friend of ours is also currently going thru this - his gf put him out for 2 months because she is done w/the drinking. I'm not trying to mimic what she's doing, actually I'm quite shocked to be in the same boat, but anyway she & I talked & though maybe H & her bf, our friend, would be good support to one another. It seems you'd disagree with this?

Thank you again for your post, please keep 'em coming. BTW, H texted me this morning to plz call. I texted back that I will after work. So I don't know what it is, but he's got something to say to me already.

OH - you asked if he believes in God or a higher power. Good question, I'd like to know the REAL answer to that one day soon. When I talk to the kids about God, he joins in, but when his friends talk about being children of the devil & what-not, he joins in...yes, he's got issues too!!

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout?

He accidentally emailed it to me, and I was like, I'm not an alcoholic.

this made me smile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

you will know when you are making progress when you do what you know to be correct without a thought as to whether or not your alcoholic husband might be mad at you

all of us, drunk or sober, BS or WS ... all of us are entitled to own our own feelings

as the spouse of an alcoholic, we tend to own our spouse's feelings ... and until you stop doing that , you will remain sick

take care

Pep (been down that path, but no more)