Morning (((((RIN))))).

I really don't know enough about the domestic violence issue to be able to comment. It's certainly looking like the central issue right now, though. I like that you told him "That was domestic violence...", I think using those words makes it that much more serious. It wasn't just a fit or anger -- it was violent and abusive.

Caling a spade a spade is a good start. Clear, pre-determined boundary enforcement is also good. I'll leave the "how-to's" of that up to someone else ... because I have no idea. I think LA is right on that you need to get out of the way of his consequences.


Some of the other things you brought up in your post seem like communication and assumptions (it's easy for me to armchair-quarterback from over here .... don't ask me to identify when I'm doing the same things, though!).

"He seems to me to be irritated with this information from the tone of his voice." Assumption .... He might not have been irritated at all. Or he might have been irritated that you brought it up, or at himself for doing something so dumb to start with, or that his sock was sliding down and bunching up in his shoe ....

I'm not sure I quite understood all of what happened with him being sick and you picking up meds and the favor after your meeting. Did you not want to do that (pick up his meds or do the favor)?

"...FWH was in bed and he had turned the TV off. I thought to myself, "Well, I guess it's a good thing I didn't want to watch TV." I also felt like I couldn't blow dry my hair b/c he was in bed. "
I'm missing something here, so will you please clarify? Did you really want to watch TV? Were you expecting him to leave it on when he went to bed? I'm not sure what is poking at you with the TV thing ... can you add some detail?
As for the hairdryer, our bathroom is in our bedroom, so a blow-dry would have been loud and irritating for the one in bed .... do you have a similar set-up? But it's still your choice. It's not that you couldn't blow-dry your hair ... it's you chose not to, and not to disturb him. A pretty loving act .... not an "I can't....".

"...maybe five minutes later, he turns over very roughly and throws the covers up over him. Now, I can tell you want that was suppose to mean but that would be a DJ on my part, just like what it means when he lays on his back is."
"DH, are you awake? I'm awake and feeling kind of a tense, uncomfortable vibe going on here. Is that accurate?"


Rin, girl, I don't know how you're holding up to all of this. It seems like the circumstances and your situation jerk you from everything being ok one minute to wanting out the next ... and then right back again. That sure seems like it would be hard to take, I don't know how you manage it!


-AmI.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hi, AmI! Oh, I'm so excited that you posted to me...I've missed you so!


There are a great deal of assumption in the M, on my part and his...and I'm not sure how to deal with it...I'm tired of assumptions...the point to be made was if I don't hear it from his lips...well, that's not good enough for him b/c I should know as far as he's concerned...


You got me on this one...thank you!


No, I was fine with it!

{quote]"...FWH was in bed and he had turned the TV off. I thought to myself, "Well, I guess it's a good thing I didn't want to watch TV." I also felt like I couldn't blow dry my hair b/c he was in bed. "[/quote]

Point was that the TV was off meant for me to come to bed...he expected me to come to bed...to not want to watch more TV...I would have had it been on, but the TV is right on the other side of the bedroom wall...I chose not to turn on the TV out of respect...and I felt like I couldn't...I know that it was my choice...

My set up is the same as your's...I didn't want to distribute him...but I could have take the blow drier to the other bathroom or something...I know this...

I want to give you guys a picture of a night/day in our lives. I HAVE to STOP the insanity if only on my part...


You're right, I could have spoken up, I chose not to because I wanted to avoid what I thought would happen in my own head. I thought it would be another conversation about how "HE" always starts SF. See my thinking is: He's sick, let him rest, besides I don't want to get sick, and he doesn't touch me when I'm sick...but there again, I'm expected too...I see alot of double standards...


Thanks, I appreciate that, but it's not as bad as it seems. I mean I use to have great anxiety over my M and what he did, what I did...I've gotten SO MUCH better at being able to handle things...

I'm just a little frustrated right now, wondering about a pattern of behavior, and how to go about changing the things that I can...

I guess in reality I'm focusing on the future and not just today right now...today is good...FWH is sick...the kids are good...I'm going visit with my sponsor today...

So, if I look at just today, I'm okay...I'm worrying about the future and what it holds...that's not being present! LOL

If I think about my boundaries, my options are ask him to leave, leave myself with the kids, or call the police...depending on the circumstances of the event...possibly all three at once if need be...

My sponsor did offer me a place to stay should I need it...I really appreciated that. I feel like if I get to that point, I will fell like that is a safe haven.

You are tired of the assumptions yet, Rinder...you're still doing them yourself.

When you really eliminate them...and they do take time and awareness...practice...then you'll have a better perspective of your H's assumptions.

How about a little O&H discussion? "Mindreading and assumptions used to give me the feeling of being loved. I realize how much conflict they created and miscommunication. I respect you, our marriage and myself. My not assuming means I love you more, not less, I'm discovering. What do you think about assumptions?"

Speak more...DJ less...like with the hair dryer...ask. I understand your consideration...ascertain if he's asleep or not...then ask...about the hair dryer, the tv, SF...if he would be comfortable with you cuddling...anything to combat the assumptions.

He's new to this, also. Gonna take time and consistency. Practice more...you'll feel LESS mental exhaustion, I promise.

Where your mind dwells, there is your treasure...remember if you're counting all he has done...you have little time to be aware of what is...right now...we can overwhelm ourselves...I REMEMBER!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"See my thinking is: He's sick, let him rest, besides I don't want to get sick, and he doesn't touch me when I'm sick...but there again, I'm expected too...I see alot of double standards..."

How about this being what you say aloud? "I know you're sick and I want you to rest, if you want to--I'm worried about getting sick myself. I was wondering, when I am sick, is that why you don't touch me? Or because you don't like being touched?"

Clarity...not huge decisions...a thousand tiny ones...to know...

You recently got "bit" when you engaged in O&H...know that you determine the depth of the bite and how long it takes to heal...be brave and true, anyway.

I know you've gotten far more balance than you've ever had in your life...it keeps going...this is like fine tuning...

Frustration is a signal...tell me what beliefs it's coming from, 'k?

"If I think about my boundaries, my options are ask him to leave,"

Speak, remove yourself (with the kids), leave temporarily or permanently (lots of options in the first option alone); call the police...predetermined, progressive...not answering a small bite with a nuclear bomb...nor a huge bite with a flyswatter (alturtlecounseling.com has a great boundaries guide).

It's not about you getting to a certain point...your enforcements are in response to his actions...you have to prepare yourself to take them, know them. Be okay with them yourself. Have clarity.

This is just me repeating for reassurance and connection. I know you already know this...and your statement to him about domestic violence didn't include much O&H..."I was surprised to find out that throwing things and such was part of it. I'm looking into it to be clear on what I haven't been before. Do you want to talk about it?"

In your corner,

LA

That I will fail and not be able to break the assumptions and expectation cycle...that I'm unable to communicate what I need, want, and my boundaries effectivily...

That the cycle will continue...fear...I have 32 years of this with 13 years with FWH...

I see the changes, better yet, I feel the changes and if I continue to work my program I know in my heart that I will given enough time but that doesn't stop the fear from being there...

Okay...I hear what you are saying about speaking more...DJing less...

Thank you once again...I've miss you sharing with me...sometimes I feel like I can't think for myself...wondering what ARE MY options...and sometimes I don't FEEL like I have any...

Last night...I fell into that old pattern...I did realize until today that I had options...like turning the TV on anyway...I just let it be...or blow drying my hair in the other room...today, I see them as options...

I really have to try harder to think outside MY little box that I've been in...which I SEE MY box growing a little at a time...

I love my sponsor but I SO wish I have an LA IRL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have a small present for her today! The boys and I are going to visit her after I get off of work!

Rin,

I just wanted to say that I see you looking at your reactions and trying to understand yourself in all of this, and that is good. When you have known abuse for such a long time, it can be deeply engrained. You are breaking the cycle by recognizing that you have been a part of it. It's the first step.

((((((SL))))))

Thank you for the reassurance. I greatly appreciate it.

I can remember a time when FWh and I got together and I didn't want to have kids b/c I didn't want to do the same things that was done to me. FWH reassured me that I wouldn't b/c I was aware of it.

It was years later before I changed my mind.

Hi guys! I wanted to let you all know that I'm feeling better. I wasn't really feeling low before but trying to head or tails out of a situation.

F, L, and I just got back from my sponsor's house. She gave F and L gift cards to Target and I got some lavender bath products. I was so excited.

LA, I haven't gotten a chance to read up on the link you gave me yet. I plan too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We're having a Christmas potluck at work tomorrow some I'm cooking a potatoe salad to go with the gumbo! Hurray! The kids just finished taking their bath and FWH isn't home yet. He went with a friend to pick up his patches from BACA (Bikers against child abuse). I think that's funny...

Anyway...I think it was SL that really pointed out...well, it hit home and I understood more from her post. So, SL, thank you from the bottom of my heart...I knew that I was assuming...and thanks, AmI, for pointing that out...but I didn't see really how I was doing it...if that makes sense...

LA, I see what you are talking about with me having to ask more.

So, I appreciate all of your input. Have a great night!

The next steps that you will have to take in order to erase abusive nature from your life are difficult, but totally within reach. I'm no expert, just dealing with my own demons, my past, my father. My father, from what I've heard from my mother as well as my brother, was #1 a drunk, #2 physically, mentally, emotionally abusive to my mother in front of older brother and sister, #3 abusive to his own children. He abandoned us before we ever left.

I never realized that I had to deal with the abandonment from my father until this happened with my WH. It all came crashing down on me, WHY I am the way I am. WHY I push people away by excusing/predicting their behavior.

I had a true epiphany on my drive home from work tonight. I've been trying to reason as to WHY my WH would treat ME like he has, so poorly. I've made excuses, as usual. 'He said he was unhappy, and this is how the world works now, no one commits to anything anymore, why should J be different?', 'J doesn't love me anymore, that's the way the cookie crumbles', 'J got together with me so young in life that he didn't have the chance to experience multiple sexual partners, or falling in love more than once, and the adoration that goes along with being single, blah blah blah'. I've been EXCUSING his behavior.

There are no two ways about it, WH IS BAD! (let me put an aside in here, I believe that we all can do bad things, adn are bad in the timeframe that the offense occurs, when we make true amends, we are not bad) He has problems. See, even when I say that, I want to say that it's not true, he just doesn't love me, that's all. He's not bad. I've heard from his lips that he DOES love me, so I'm lying to myself again. I have placed him apart from any other WS, because I excuse his behavior, and BLAME myself. My WH is NO DIFFERENT than other Waywards, and I am working toward understanding why I've clinged to such foolish notions this long.

What I explain above is a pattern of how I deal with abuse. I'm learning to break it. I'm learning that I am aloud to be treated with respect. I'm learning that one can say they love you, but the lack of SHOWING it is telling, not about me, but about THEM.

Boy, I sure can ramble. My point is, everyone here on this forum is dealing with abuse, whether mild or severe. Try to hear what you say when these things occur. DO NOT EXCUSE the behavior. Let the offender deal with it; take BLAME away from yourself. There is no excuse great enough to explain abuse.

Good Morning!

SL- I can say that I'm learning and recogizing alot of things that aren't right in my M. I was looking back and thinking about the only time that we got into a big fight and one of the things that FWH said to me. We were arguing over leaving for a hurricane...

I wanted to stay and he wanted to go...he made a statement to me about the kids. I've noticed that he has a tendency to use them when he's trying to get his way. Needless to say, I took the bait and we left, the hurricane didn't even come in our direction.

I've lived with them my whole life; he hasn't. This pass blow up he tried to use the kids with me again.

Last night, I pulled up the National Domestic Violence site where it listed what was physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. FWh saw "Monitors where you go, who you call and who you spend time with," and tried to point it out to me saying that I was doing this. I said that's a consequence of your behavior and that I wasn't doing that before, that there has to be a pattern. I was quiet while he read the list and I asked if he was finished. He said that he was a long time ago, so I don't know it he read it or not.

FWH asked me why I was bring this up and I said that I dealt with this enough growing up and from what I understand from MIL, you dealt with this too. He rolled his eyes and I said that this was the last time I would bring this up. I said that I was trying to create awareness, and that he's thrown a coke bottle in my direction, burned my books, and broke the glass. The cycle has to stop.

When I got into bed, I asked if he was awake and said "I'm just trying to reclaim my best friend, the one I told everything too like I didn't want kids because I didn't want to do to them what was done to me." I said that I was done and went to sleep.

This is strictly my opinion but FWH doesn't want to hear anything that I have to say. I surely cant made him listen to me. I can't teach him, I understand this.

When he told me that he was perfectly happy with who he is months ago, I believe he believes that. Well, I've planned the seed but I didn't get to state my boundaries yet.

I have to read the article LA suggested. I haven't had time too, but am making a point today because I feel that another occurance can happen anytime. I've spoke to FWH about abuse before. I'm just going to have to deal with this as firmly as I've dealt with NC.

I'm really hoping that his mom comes down. She'll as what happened, and I will tell her. SHe'll be a good influence on him...he listens to her...but I will not run to her with this. She deserves to know the truth...once again this is my opinion but I find that FWH tries to cover things up and make them look pretty.

It was with MIL's help that I got NC and FWH to stop going to the "store." So, I will use the resources available to me when I need them.

I feel that I'm moving in the right direction for me and the kids. It's FWH chose to tag along with us, if not I'll do what I need to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have so much I want to tell him, talk about, things that I'm excited about, I'm just going to have to "woman up" and speak up! LMAO

Well, i hope that everyone has a great day...I'm looking forward to having next week off! Playing with the kids! Doing whatever! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good Morning!

Well, we went out to supper with my mom last night. Everything was going really well until the boys and I went to the bathroom, which left FWH and mom at the table.

Well, I got back to the table and the boys were back already, mom was paying the bill, we boxed our leftovers, and walked to the vehicles.

When I got in the truck, I could tell something was wrong with FWH but he wasn't saying anything. Come to find out my mother said something to him. He said that he didn't want to get into that conversation because we were have somewhat of a good night. We were!

I left the conversation at that and later I asked him something about mom and something else that she had said. So, we talked a little and later I said that it was probably best that I didn't know what she said. FWH was good too, he said that he just let it slide. I told him that months ago, she said that she was going to say something to him when she got a chance and I had asked her not too.

I didn't tell him that she had threaten to remove him from this earth saying that they would never find him.

I'm wondering if I should leave it alone but I have been thinking about telling her this: "Mom, I know you said something to FWH, I don't know what it is, but if you threatened him or tried to intimidate him, that's abuse."

Then, leaving it at that. I'm going back and forth about it because I know that this is between him and her. I feel that it's not my place to say that but FWH. If I understand this it's his boundaray that she cross and I should keep my nose out of it.

If I don't say anything to her, then, I thought about telling FWH: "I don't want to know what she said but if she threatened you or tried to intimidate you, then, that's abuse."

What FWH does with that information is his own business. So, I'm at odds. I sure don't want to stand in his way of the consequences of his A. And I was very proud that I didn't apologize for my mother's acts. (Thanks, LA!) I would have in the past.

So, any ideas on the matter, I would appreciate. FWH is already down because this is the first Christams that he will not be spending with his family and we will be spending more time with my mother.

FWH said that it was probably a good thing that me and the kids came back when we did. He said that he thought that she wasn't finished saying what she had to say. Being that we will be spending more time with her I can't be by his side to protect him from her. I won't to it, if it happens it happens.

Thanks for listening this morning...just to let you guys know I'm really calm about this...I'm just trying to figure out if this is one of those times when I need to keep my mouth shut.

((((Rin))))

Are you in individual counseling for yourself?

IMO, you are in the midst of two very creepy, scary people....

Lots of the time when I read your thread I feel ANXIOUS for you ..like a bomb is about to EXPLODE...but you are LAUGHING...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

No, I'm not in IC...I try to keep my real Dad's motto in mind... "Don't sweat the small stuff and everything's small!"

Since I've been around Great people like you...I've been restored to sanity! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You guys help keep me straight!

Ok then..



I'll go ahead and say these things...

I'm not sure why you kept this information from your H...

I don't understand how you can feel safe to have someone who would say such a thing in your home..

There is a such thing as TOXIC PARENTS (A BOOK), Rin...

What did you say to her when she said this?

And, it gives me the creeps that..if she said this at dinner..why are they reacting so CALMLY....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

She's not staying with us...my SD wouldn't "ALLOW" her to stay with "those kind of people." LOL SD's and mom's problems now. Can you see the reason why I chose not to have them in my life? She's staying with a friend.

FWH was upset.

I'm chosing not to tell him this because one...my parents act like they are big something when in reality they are nothing special...they like to portray themselves bigger than they are...

Second, they have use threatens and intimidation with me my whole life to get me to do what they want...it's the same with other people...

My SD once threaten to pull me out of college because I spend the night at my boyfriend's. I told him that he couldn't take e out of college because he wasn't the one paying for it, I was. He didn't talk to me for months.

When you stand up to them they can't handle it! It's like pulling the rug out from under them.

If you want your marriage to work again.... and your mother is screwing it up... then I think you need to tell your mother to "butt out, or get out".

What's more important: your mother's feelings, or your marital recovery?

and next time, maybe ask your mother to take the children to the bathroom, instead of you.

"rule of protection", would seem to indicate that you need to "protect" your husband from her, would it not?

I basically agree with Tech..

I'm running out to lunch but will talk to you later...

Your mother sounds TOXIC..for you..for your marriage...

Talking to her about it will only give her more AMMUNITION to use against you...

((((RIN))))

My mother is definitily NOT more important then my husband, my kids, or my M.

I had to go to the bathroom and was taking L with me. Next thing I know F is with us too. I wouldn't have left had I known this was going to happen.

Oh, mimi, I told my mother not to say anything to him, that this was my battle, but I can't "make" her do anything she doesn't want too.

I didn't know that she would actually say something or I wouldn't have left them alone. I would have protected him otherwise.

Another thing is that All people have a right to their own opinion and the chance to speak up. I don't think that people have the right to threaten others.

Of course, I don't know if that's what she did. She could have said anything for all I know. I just know what she said to me immediatily finding out about FWH's A.

Just as a reminder to those who don't follow my sitch...my mother lives 12 hours away and I haven't seen her in two or three years...

Sounds to me like you are doing just fine. You are not in control of what your mom says - Hubby is a big boy. If stuff comes up again, I would just smile and hug him and say, "Well, you know mom - there she goes again".

I would also make sure that he knows that if mom is rude or disrespectful toward him, you will be avoiding mom again for another 3 years.

I can understand that sort of reaction, when there is established positive feeling between H and W. However, when there is negative feeling, I can tell you from personal experience that this is seen as a lack of care from your spouse.

Replying like that, is a love bank withdrawal. It's telling your spouse, "I know that you are hurt: please put up with it anyway as a favor to me".

I can tell you this: FWH is more than welcome to defend himself against her and anything that he says to her will not affect my M to him because of it.

I think that I will let FWH know this and the comment about the abuse. I need him to know that should he need to say something to her that I will not hold it against him in any form or fashion because "OUR" FAMILY IS MORE IMPORTANT!

From there it is his choice...and I still chose not to know what she said...this is really between the two of them...

I understand that she wanted to protect her DD, but I have asked her not to speak her mind...there's nothing more I can do! I would want to protect my own kids like that. I can't say that I would do the same in the situation, but I do feel that if I were asked not to say something I would abide by my children's wishes.

But that's me!