This is untrue. Men CAN and WILL fake the big O. Back when our relationship was still good and my WW and I had SF constantly, she was very responsive to my O. She would often have many small Os of her own, then have her big O when I did.

Not always was I able to finish, because of some myriad of factors, but I never wanted to leave her wanting, so I could and would fake it. Granted, I only did this very few times in our M, but so long as it was SF with a condom, she couldn't really tell I was faking.

Anyway, I have more to say about, well, everything, but I'm at work right now since my power is still off at home (I live in SW Missouri, where we were just hit by a monster ice storm that left more than 300,000 people without power since last Friday... I'm still without). When I have more time (ie, power is restored at home), I'll go through and give you a good post. This just caught my eye and I had to comment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

RX, thanks for stopping by...I was reading up on you and it seems that you are pretty centered...good to hear...you are well on your way my friend...

I have to say on the quote that sometimes I have not been able to tell some times when DH does this...I have have to ask him...

Ok not a lot of time here but want to post to you.

Rogue I generalized "don't need a lesson" lol. Faking is much more prevelent in women.

Rin it is learned behavior that needs to be unlearned. IMVHO.

You guys have learned a way to interact and now it needs to be unlearned and a new way needs to be learned. Don't know if that is making sense

Example. This weekend FWW and I were standing in a store. She interupted me and I responded like an A55.

She walked away and went outside. She was mad (understandably so) Does not give her the right to treat me like a piece of crud on her shoe but she did. Normally I would kiss some butt. I didn't.

Here is what happened. I appologized for my wrong doing.

I pointed out that she interuppted me and that she is getting much better at it but in this case it upset me. HOWEVER it did not give me the right to disrespect her. End. of that part.

It also didn't give her the right to then get on me in the parking lot then in front of the boys. You are doing to me worse then what got you mad in the first place. Then you keep on it and don't accept a sincere appology. Instead you keep going at me saying I have some nerve.

Well what you are doing is the same if not worse then what I am doing.

I walked away. She came back to me and asked why it is always turned around on her.

I said it is not. I was wrong. I was absolutely wrong and I have appologized for it and appologize again.

I however don't like the way you responded and have treated me I think it is quite hypocritical and for someone that has asked for forgiveness you sure don't seem to want to give it.

Come to find out she was upset about something else.

Well she has to unlearn her old behaviour because I have unlearned mine.

I will not be treated like garbage when I make a mistake.

I completely agree, question is am I doing all that I can, within my control...I think so.

Like you said: I have unlearned mine, he has to unlearn his...

I can see it when he deals with the boys...I think to myself...I use to do that...and what's really bad I don't like the way the kids are treated...but like I said I use to do that...

I think it's a case of having to sit back...stay atill...and pray for him to be guided in the right direction...

Rin,

Between you, me and the wall. I don't see what impetus he has to change. We have talked about this before.

Not only do I not see an impetus for change, I am reading into it that he doesn't feel he needs to change. He doesn't see his behavior as a problem.

What is the First Step?

You cannot make him see or do any of those things.

So what if he never unlearns that behavior? What if he looks at you and wonders what your problem is?

Are there any of these things you can give ground on.

Sounds like he is taking a woe is me attitude. Some of his problems are the consequences of his actions but he doesn't seem to want to see that.

Admitting that you have a problem...is the first step.

If he never unlearns his behavior, I will be fine...just as numberous S have lived with Alcoholics...I will go on...

DH is constantly asking what's wrong with me...there's nothing wrong with me...he has said that he doesn't know who I am...well, I am the same but different...he can change that...he can take the time to learn who I am...

I think this is where I really have to put my principles above personalites...

What do you mean are there any of these things that I can give ground on?

I feel that DH is feeling sorry for himself...he has said that he's not going to work as much as he did last year...or he's not going to do this or that...

I see that he's at the point I once was...not wanting to face my part...that's why I said to him I can point things out to him, but I know that when he did it to me, I wouldn't learn...I wanted to be right and didn't see what he saw...

I can handle this...I have faith...and you are very right...he doesn't see a need for change...he said to me months back that he likes who he is that I am the one who is unhappy with myself...

Again, I think projection...b/c I know that I am happy with myself for the most part...I'm still working on that...I was miserable mtself back in the day, but today I know better.

Rin,

I don't know enough about it to say it is projection.

Here is something that was killing me.

My FWW had all these issues about her A that were never discussed. Triggers, lies, open wounds. Blah blah blah.

We were at it about these things as you know. It was tense and not good. When she messed up I got mad. Most of the time rightfully so.

Here is when perception comes in. I kept thinking geez she already messed up by doing this that and the other when is she going to stop.

She kept thinking God do I ever do anything right.

The answer was yes she does but those big darn things aren't.

So she got to be the victim in the whole thing.

Your H sounds like my FWW did.

What really changed was me. I was done with it. She made her bed. I did not make the choices for her she made them herself. She seemed content being that way.

I finally gave up and called it a day. Then she changed.

Things since have been pretty darn good.

No onto can you give in a little.

I am a little more lenient on some things that used to bother me. Heck me not being perfect and all can't expect her to be.

I don't know...I guess I'll have to think about it...

Funny...we're fine when we talk about football or any other topic...

I'm not about to stress myself out thinking about it...just like I told DH last night I thinking about the past to long and I start creating resentment and get angry...

It will be really wierd to have him complaining that things aren't going well b/t us instead of me being the one in the past...LOL

Well, you have a great night! I'm going home to enjoy life! Read a book, cook, laugh with the kids! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's really hard, sometimes, to let go of old behaviors. They're like a heavy coat with a broken zipper... you put it on, now you have to figure out how to get it off because it's hot and heavy and it's weighing you down.

We do one of two things: We either take the time out necessary to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it, or we sit there and do nothing, eventually feeling sorry for ourselves and being crushed under the weight of those bad behaviors.

It's easier to do nothing than it is to do something. Sometimes, it takes a push or a shove, however blatant or subtle, to start us in the right direction. The type of action that will work depends squarely on the person being encouraged. You know your husband better than any of us do. Try to think of some ways you could help him help himself without being too open or blatant about it. Don't be aggressive with it, though. If it's obvious what you're doing, he may see it as you trying to force change on him, even if it is something that he might want without knowing it.

Bah.. I was going somewhere with this, but work interrupted me and now I'm totally derailed. If it comes to me later, I'll be sure to post more, but I'll leave it here for now. Hopefully what I've said here will help.

Good luck, Rin.

((((((((RX)))))))

Thank you for your support and well wishing. I appreciate the person that you are...a wonderful, amazing person with a great heart and I'm sure a great father!

WELL...

I just checked the cell bill...contact...I thought I noticed a difference...just TMs...and I know that he hasn't met with her...

I'm actually doing well...I've learned alot and have grown leaps and bounds since I first arrived here...

WH said that I'm trying to tell him who he can talk to and not...but I'm not trying to control him, that I'm assuming that's what he said...I'm putting words into his mouth...

I'm good...I'm reading Hinds' Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard...I believe that I would not be doing so well if it were not for this book...

I'm really calm, a little shocked by not really...WH TMed her first...

I know what I need to do but it doesn't make it any easier...I will have to take my time and think this through...come up with a plan...I know that I can't get him out of the house...that's a fact without going through a laywer...

I will think for a while...

Thank you ALL for listening and supporting me...

((((RIN))))

Ugh. I'm sorry, hon.

Contact was def. a boundary, right? Did you tell him what the consequence would be for crossing this boundary? What was the original plan?

You said you know what you need to do ... what is that?

Here for you.

-AmI.

I didn't really come up with a plan before...I wanted to do plan B but couldn't get him out of the house...so I was going to plan D...then, that didn't happen b/c of the stop signs...

Then, we talked with his mom Thanksgiving night...we didn't really talk R/M...

I need to separate from him...do a plan B...just it's the same problem...how to get him out of the house...

I don't think that the A is going on...I don't think that the problem now is the A...I think that the problem is PA behavior...his entitlement...his parents didn't treat him like this and I am...

It's a matter of rebellion...nevertheless, it's all the same and I have done my part...

I want out of the house...if only for the weekend right now...I'm suppose to bring the dog for it's shots tomorrow but am thinking that it can wait...

I would like to pray about it...ask for guidance...I know that I have to enforce my boundaries...I want to talk with my sponsor also...

Hi Rin -

Sorry to hear the latest. I know where you're at (being in a similar spot myself).

If you can't get him to leave, can you leave with the kids? Stay with a friend?

To me, Plan B doesn't necessarily require the WS to vacate the house (though that's the best option) - it merely requires a way to ensure NC between the BS and the WS.

Rin,

I'm praying for you, woman. I'm happy you checked the cell bill and aren't shading truth to yourself. Very proud of you. And I trust you. I'll respect your choice to not believe that contact continues an A. A's are P/A behaviors...extreme ones. I'm with you on this being a P/A act...so pre-determining your boundary enforcements is essential.

I know you know all of this.

This is deja vu for you.

Changing cell number...moving...selling the house...filing for divorce...you know your options. Getting away for a weekend...or a week...please focus on what the leaving symbolizes...and the coming back. Your choices are valid...when they are true to yourself, your marriage and your family.

That's the measure...the rod. Did you call him on the contact as soon as you found out?

LA

Hello, HB...Thank you for dropping in...

I would be bring the kids with me...I do have a friend locally that I could stay with for a few days...actually several...should I leave I don't want to be jumping here and there...I want a stable environment for the kids...

I will have to content with him calling and tracking me down like he did last time so I have spoke with my sponsor and she said that there are options we can look into...

I'm putting my faith in God to show me what I need to do...some may not understand that...

Yesterday, I met someone who has been an important influence in my life and I was thinking at the time that the topic of conversation was on faith. It's the first time we ever spoke on that and he recommend something to me...

I never kissed him before but before I left I planted a kiss on his cheek and he said "Bless you." I thought at the time that this had happened for a reason b/c he also told me that I would be okay and I didn't mention anything personal...just said that I had been working and was reading a great spirital book. He's a small man like my Grandpa. I highly respect him and all that he's done.

So, here I am today...blessed and okay... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good Morning! Well, I made it through the weekend at HOME! I wanted to leave and did try but WH was using the kids against me. I didn't want them to get in the middle.


Somewhere in there, I told WH that I didn't respect him. I was yelling at him and he said "I don't know who you are yelling at!" I said "someone with no intigrity!" He didn't say a word, I was on the phone with my SM, she had called, when I did this.

I know, I know...I didn't do good at all...oh, well, next time...

WH said that I could leave but I wasn't taking the kids. I was prepared to call the cops if need be. I had the number wrote on my hand. He was trying to intimidate me, standing over me, etc.

I called my Sponsor and he must have thought I was calling the police, b/c I walked outside and he kept following me. I talked to her while he listened, said exactly what was on my mind.

She adviced that I go back in the house and have no interaction with him. So, I sat on the couch, stareing at the TV. WH stood leaning against the entrance to the living room for a long time. I don't know if he thought I had called the cops or not.

He did tell me to call them several times and after he said it the last time, I picked up the phone and called my sponsor. HE stood there for what seemed like forever, stareing at me, then, went in the kitchen and brought us something to drink. I set it down and didn't touch it.

She called back about 30 minutes later to check on me. WH was sitting right next to me...when I hung up I said I love you to her!

WH asked immediately who that was! I told him and didn't say a word more for some time...

I tried to go lay down but all I could do was cry...I asked myself how old I felt and got a picture of my teen years. So, I got up and went sit back in the living room...

WH moved his arm and I moved in the other direction. He said "Don't worry, I'm not going to touch you!" I said I wasn't worried about him touching me. He said what are you worried about? I said nothing right now.

WH was on the cpu and I turned to look at the screen. He asked what I was doing...I said looking for things to be more pissed off about. Sometime later, I said that I had ntohing for him but comtempt. WH asked what that was; I said hate! He said him, and nodded his head.

I have to say that this is the first time that he didn't take on my mood...I was anger and I was saying exactly what was on my mind...I kind of consider it mean...

At one point, I said you would think that a MC would do some good to give all the [censored] out of the way and work on the main stuff. HE let me have my attitude. Oh, at some point I said that WH was no different that an other Affairee...addicted to the feeling that he got when he talked to her...WH wrote in a letter to me, Friday, that he just thinks of her and has to find out why...That's why I told him this...

I also told him, that I understood that this was about him and not me, but I was tired of being hurt in the process.

My sponsor called back before she headed to bed and invited me to go get a cup of coffee with her and attend a meeting the next night. I didn't even ask WH if I could go...just agreed...he asked after I got off the phone what that was all about. I just told him that she was picking me up at 6:30 the next night and what we would be doing. WH said "I guess you've painted a bad picture of me to her too." I said "I didn't have too!"

Before the call, he asked me if I was hungry...I immediately said no, then came back with "actually I'm really hungry I just don't feel like eating...he went in the kitchen and warmed up some leftover pizza for me...sai that I didn't have to eat it if I didn't want too, after I had been sitting there picking at it for awhile...

I was in a better mood by the time my sponsor had called, I had been playing with the dog and loving on her.

I got up the next morning (I fell asleep on the sofa with the dog and when I woke in the middle on the night chose to stay there)and told L if him and his brother was coming with me to get dressed. I didn't invite WH to go and didn't want him to. Well, L asked if WH was coming right in front of WH if he was coming. I said I didn't know, and WH asked if I wanted him to go. I said that it didn't matter. WH said a simply yes or no please. I said that's fine! (Still not being nice...)

So, well ran some errands. WH was being nice and really friendly. I was still holding up that wall...barely talking to him...not to be mean...just didn't want to socialize with him...

Well, I went out with ym sponsor...we had a good time...when I got home I asked what they had for supper...WH said nothing and F said no you ate a sandwich...I said so no one ate supper...WH said I figured it was a fend for yourself night...I said when you go out I still take care of the kids... and walked to the back on the house after a few minutes to check on L...

L was sleeping and I asked F if he was hungry...He and I agreed on some Ramen noodles and went into the kitchen to cook together...I helped F fix his and then when mine was done, I went into the living room and ate...

Yesterday, I woke up early and WH said you don't have to get up...I'll wake you up later...I didn't say anything and took the dog out...fixed me a cup of coffee which WH had made...the whole weekend I would interact with the kids and the dog...WH was being really nice...even bought me a shirt Sat...

Sunday was good, WH even cooked supper while I napped...he even called this morning to see if I had gotten up on time...this is something that he use to do in the past...

I'm just thinking how long is this going to last...when is the cycle of abuse going to stop...I do consider this whole thing abuse...contact...NC...I'm wondering when he's going to stop being nice...well, I'm going to say that as soon as I get the chance....

My sponsor and I did sit down and talk about my M and what's right for me...she said that out of the people that she's sponsored I'm the best one that she's had and that I have alot going for me and ran down the list...

She told me to think about that the next time I needed to...I told her that I had no problem should I have to support myself, that I knew that I could do it...So, we made a list and talked about the addiction and a few other things...

So, for the time being I sit...

I'm also going to get a chance to tell WH that I don't want to love him anymore...that I'm tired of getting hurt in the process of him doing what he wants too...

Frog...I have to admit and it's so sad but WH is responsing to this treatment...I haven't let him touch me, I barely talk to him (I'm concerned what will come out of my mouth sometimes.)...he even brought the clothes from the dryer inside and asked if there were clothes in the washer...I said I didn't remember and he said that he would look...

I'm telling you he is kissing A&& right now...something he sais that he wouldn't do...remember in the beginning...

Oh, it was time to do family prayer last night, now WH doesn't usually join in but I pretty much looked at WH and said "You doing it?" Wh began with L whispering things in his ear, not so quiet, Then F jumped in. WH said "Momma?" after F was finished...

So, I said please help to guide us and allow love to enter our heart even when that's not what we want and closed the prayer.

So, there you have it...I'm sorry that it's long...I could have wrote more but I think you get the picture...talk about being bold and saying what's on my mind...

He even asked me what I was thinking about Sat. after returning from the meeting and I rolled my eyes. WH said with that look you don't have to tell me...I said I was thinking about the alcoholic and why he drinks even though he knows that he's ruining his life and his family...it's b/c it's an addiction and he doesn't have a strong will power...same thing with the addict...it's all about making themselves feel good...

I'm just being bold and I'm using my feeling to propel my mouth to open and say what I feel/think...it's an I don't give a care...kind of f-u...and to be honest...that might come out of my mouth too, if I don't watch it...I have thought about it several times...

This is where I am... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((((Rin))))

Just wanted to tell you I think you are amazing. And I know you will do what is best for you and your boys. Don't give up God is right by your side and he will get you thru this. Stay strong.

(((Rin)))

Praying for you.

Thank you so much MF and Lizzie...I firmly believe that too!

Fri./Sat. morning when I woke up at 3am on the sofa, I used that time to think about the sitch and pray on it. To ask myself what's in my best interest and what's God's will...

I just don't feel that I should go anywhere's right now...I know that I'm dealing with an addict...who's not willing to change...sees no reason to change...

As least I know the next time that I plan to leave, I will have our clothes already packed and we just won't return home...that way the kids definitily don't get to hear their parents arguing, are not put in the middle in any way shape or form...

I wasn't going to tell the kids to get in the car and then, have their dad tell them no too. That wouldn't have been fair to them...I was "allowed" to leave with the dog but not the kids...WH said that he felt I was trying to keep his kids from him...that's why he wouldn't let me leave with them...

The whole weekend I kept thinking of the thread entitled "I may hate WH now..."

I even told him that I'm glad that it didn't hurt as bad this time but I noticed that he was acting different and the red flags went up. I told him that I noticed he had stopped calling me to let me know where he was going and was just distant.

I'm just in a place where I'm not scared to say what's on my mind...I even DJed and then had to apologize for it...WH said no, don't say you're sorry now. I said no I was wrong for that and I know it...I said that's the point...admitting when you are wrong and making amends for it. Well, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that.

So, I'm going to say what I want and if I have to apologize later, so be it!

I hope that you and the boys are doing well...I don't remember seeing you around of late...LOL...could be the name change for me too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, I don't believe God's will is being carried out. If it were, then you wouldn't be in this situation. Honestly, I think that God's plans for people are just that... plans. Since God gave us free-will, we are able to do whatever we want, even so far as violating God's will.

Ultimately, God wants you to find your way to your own happiness without faltering from your moral ground. God wants you to be happy, safe, and sound while still adhearing to your faith. So, stay the course. Do not stray from your faith. Realize that your responsibility is only to yourself, your children, and God. You are not responsible for your husband.

If he is hurting you, if he has violated the blessing of marriage, then you have the right to remove yourself from that pain, and that is all right with God, I'm sure. Marriage is both a legal and a spiritual contract, and contracts can be broken or defaulted on, even the spiritual kind. You did not violate the marriage contract. Your WH did.

Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that you need to do what needs to be done. If he is not willing nor able to change, then you need to find a way out. For your own sake, and your childrens' sake. God will forgive you and look out for you, so long as you stay true.

I know you're hurting, and you don't deserve to be hurting. Take care of yourself. We all hurt when you do. It makes me sad to see that things are so rough. But it is a cycle, and it may not ever end. YOU have to break it.

Be safe, and good luck.

(((((RIN)))))