I can't believe this...

Oh, I have to go! I running late!

Ok, let me explain why I called that "not abuse';

If you say "the sky is blue' (and it clearly is blue, and if he bothered to look outside he coudl see it is blue), but instead he says, "no, you're wrong, the sky is black".
That's not abuse. (presuming he really thinks it is black)
He said you are wrong about something. But that shouldnt be a crime. it's not abuse.. even when HE is the one actually wrong.
And it's dumb for him to say something that he doesnt even know anything about, and hasnt bothered to investigate for himself.
But it's not "abuse"



PS: i read that article. I find it to have a few things in it that are.. shall we say.. lacking.

one example:

wait, is this an article about "what is verbal abuse", or "what is bad for a marriage"?

ok, that's a true statement.. but it's NOT "verbal abuse'. it's "refusing to listen". sheesh.
That's like saying, "if one spouse refuses to give sex to the other, it's sexual abuse".. Umm, NO IT'S NOT!
It's really bad for the marriage, etc, etc.. but it is not "abuse".
Abuse is an action, not lack of action.
"neglect" would be a more appropriate label for things in the "lack of action" category.



ok, that, I actually agree with, believe it or not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And in that context, him telling you "you're not sad", after you say you are, could potentially fall into that category. but I'd like to point out that there are exceptions.
If he does it routinely, to trivialize your feelings, that is potentially abusive. However, there are other reasons he might do it. For example, he could really believe that you arent sad, but going through some other emotion.

Your husband seems to be a poor communicator. Taking his words at face value, may not be the right thing to do. Lord knows i've said some stupid things to my wife, and she's taken them as really insulting, because I said words in a particular order... which COULD be taken as the way she took them.. but was not my intent at all.

[/quote]

I think that with words, intent should count for something. If there is no negative intent, then it shouldnt be declared abuse; it should definately be classed as hurtful, and brought up to the person in a "thoughtful request' for them to change their speech... but unless they refuse to change, i dont think it should count as "abuse".

My reason for this being:

you cant routinely "accidentally" hit someone. physical abuse has clear intent behind it. However, words do not always have such a clear intent->meaning association.

most people are NOT masters of their own language <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll agree with the poor communicator...here's another article...

This time I felt that an article from the National Coliation might be more accredited in what they are saying...

http://www.healthtouch.com/bin/EContent_HT/showAllLfts.asp?lftname=NCADV005&cid=HT

I think I understand where you arecoming from...it's amatter of POV b/t spouses...

I believe that threating to burn the house down on multiple occasions is abuse...I believe that not letting me leave the house during an agrument, or following me, or calling me none stop, telling me that he will not stoplooking for me until I comehome is abuse, intimidation to be exact...coming to my work, stealing my stuff b/c he thinks that I am keeping it from him, and all of the mean things he says at the time that he's doing this is abuse...

I'm not coming out of nowhere saying my H is abusive...I'msaying that yes, I said some down right means things too...

If your wife came from a background where intimidation was a way of life...do you think that she would have aquired that behavior becuase she learned it from FOO? Or you for that matter?

My goal here is not to accuse H but to use his actions and past behavior in our M to help me indenify my own behavior...the goal is to change my behavior, but I have to be able to idenitfy the problems first...

Poor communication...that's a given...H does not tlak about R/M...he refuses to go to IC, MC b/c there's nothing wrong with him...

Conflict avoidance...sweep everything under the rug...that's a given too...H loves to CA...I would agree with him to avoid a fight...avoid being told I was wrong...I have allowed OP in our M for years b/f I found the courage to say I'm not going to do this anymore...

Techie, TBH, I have not felt comfortable having this conversation with you...I believe that I have to rehash the last 13 years that H and I had been together...how I was so unhealthy from the sexual, mental, verbal(I was called a sl*t, b!tch, you name it), physical...

I went from my parents house, to a phy. abusive boyfriend, to H...I'm working out my own issues and I think for the most part my M is good now...compared to where we have been...

Well, I have the kids waiting for me to tke a shower...

Rin,

I think what I am reading techi is right. Now there is a point that I keep seeing. You bring up the past.

Now in the past the things you mention may be verbally abusive.

Now not to take your H's side but when did he call you a sl$t Bi%%H. I called my FWW those things after I found out about the A.

I think in some cases yelling and calling your spouse names falls under Normal Human Reaction. IE I come home 2 hours late smelling like strippers, cigars and booze. I would expect to get yelled at, called names etc. Now I come home late because I had an irate customer on the phone for an hour after I got off and my FWW lays into me that may be abusive.

I have read over your guys points and I made mine.

I guess for me if you are happy and your M is better then it has been why all of the sudden did you bring up the verbal abuse again.

Maybe some present day examples would be helpful.

Good luck.

Frog-

Thank you...THe whole point to the original post was I read about this was I was shocked when I read about abuse...it recalled alot to mind...like I had mentioned we are doing go much better...

I think that a great deal has changed when I started breaking the enmenshment and standed owning my parts...

Exposure and the months that followed was so horrible...do you remember when I stood up to him and told him that I wasn't scared of him anymore...OMG, that was so scary for me...he hauled off and punched the wall...

The only example that I can thing off recently was my fault, when I told him that he didn't miss anything for Mardi gras...I totally discredited the way he felt...I was wrong and I apologizing for it later saying that I was sorry that he's the only one that can determine whether or not he missed anything...

I wrote him off...this falls into the catagory of taking a hundred dollars and turning it into a penny...this is the reason that I went in how we (people) are VA/EA...I can correct and make amends for my actions...

Having read up on it...I felt overwhelmed and devasted...thinking at first that things were hopeless...how can I change what I do and it affect how H responses to me...I don't feel so hopeless now...I can do something about it but first you have to recognize that there is a problem...I see that...so, I do something about my behavior...

Like I mentioned the quiz I tool I score a 9, which said that I do this without knowing that I do it...it's a mild case...no horrible stuff here and it something can be done about it...I have better tools today that I had even yesterday...

With H I can say that discrediting how I feel...like I did him is probably the main thing that we do to each other...

Frog, i know that you have seen the progress that H and I have made, the changes that I have made...we have come so far...

I just can't believe how people write off VA/EA...and say that it's not...I felt that I was crazy for yrs., doubted myself, my self esteem was so eroded...

H makes comments about me being on AD's, and some of the things he says sometimes really hurt...it's like he attacks my personality...it's like not being accepted by him...not being loved by him...but like I said things have improved...

You know, I can remember a time when H told me that I talked to much and what did I do stopped talking...

The main thing that he does now that drives me crazy is ask WHat's wrong with you? There can be nothing "wrong" with me...but I've got an attitude and have been treating him badly all day...this was a few days ago...when we got into it and he made the relgion comment and we were just having a bad day...I haven't talked to him most of the day b/c he was sleeping...

He says this stuff and I'm thinking how can you say that I've been treating you like [email]cr@p[/email] if I haven't even been around you to do anything...I hear you've been acting like you have a problem with me...and I'm thinking what did I do to act like I have a problem with him...what did "I" do?

I replay the time that I was with him in my head, I know that I wasn't mad at him, that I wasn't being b!tchy...I came home, made small talk or didn't talk to much b/c I know that he's just waking up, so I try to give him some time to do that...he's told me that he doesn't like me coming home and tlaking to him immediately b/c he's waking up, so i try to be considerate...

So, i told him that I didn't think I was acting like I had a problem with him b/c I didn't and I have to explain why I did what and the reasons why I did it...but he still tells me that I have a problem...THere's nothing wrong with me but in his "POV" there is...

I've even asked him "why does there always have to be a problem with me?" I get tired of defensing myself...it's like sometimes I can't just be...

Techie, you know after D-day and I was working on Plan A and making changes...I remember some of the things that H had complained about several times and use the things that he had complained about to examine myself...

I found that to be really helpful...I thought well if he's complained about it more than once than in his eyes there must be a problem...but the things that were no based in reality, like It's my fault that OP don't come by...that was coldhearted and untrue in so many ways...

You had mentioned the comment about friends not telling you what they really think...JMHO, but I think that a true friend will tell you the truth even when you don't want to hear it...we have a lot of people that stop by the house...always have...not daily...like yesterday...two of his guy friend's stopped by...now, we were on our way somewhere and H apologized and explained what we were up too and how he was in a hurry having to go to work immediately after...there's just no facts to back up that statement and there has been...

Same thing with his friend making the statement about me doing more for my company than I do for him...OP's opinion became his O and he couldn't back it up with facts...That torrented me for so long, wondering how could he probably say that to me...

It's not in my nature to provoke people...I'm working on not being a people pleaser...not putting what I need on the back burner all the time...H does get on me about this...and he's right, sometimes I need to do for myself...

This past year, we had a b-day party for the boys, we boiled crawfish and had aton of people over...LOL..well, I was running around liek a chicken with my head cut off, making sure that everyone had what they needed, etc...well, I few weeks later H and I were tlaking and I said that I really didn't enjoy the party b/c I felt that I had to cater to everyone else's needs...H told me that I wasn't anyone's servant and that they were all grown and could get what they needed...

He was very helpful when we talked about it and how I need to learn to relax more...even when we go to OP's house...

I hope this is saying that H may have his ways but he's not horrible all the time, but when he wants to, he goes for blood...and I'm usually the one that gets it...he admitted a few months ago that he had a habit of taking his bad mood out on me...

Last night, he did a great job of being in a bad mood and handling it...the kids and I went to bring him some crawfish and crabs and he talked to me outside the car but felt that it wasn't a good idea to tlak to the kids at that moment for fear that he would say or do something...L was being really bad and I had to discpline him in a store...

Oh, the wonderful looks I got...he looks so much younger than he is b/c of his size...one of the worker's at the store laughed and said I can see that he's not going to make it to see 5. I had to tell him that was in four months, and this guy at the Harley shop was shocked...about five mins. later, L got into trouble for his month...

I called H and told him what I did and he said that was good for L that he needed it and more just like it that he hoped that it embarassed him...

So, can we please stop making a big deal out of this...move on to other things...H and I have come to far to stop moving forward not...I'm not about to make a big deal about this with him...that was not my intention in the first place...but I can say that I believe that my experiences has been downplayed and made trivial...

So, anyone got any more inspirational music or something else they want to share?

LA-where are you sweetie...I really miss you...I hope that everything is okay on your end...

LOL...I know I'm not crazy....LOL...anymore!

Something I think I should clarify:

When I have said, "I do not think [that specific example] is abuse towards you", that is not the same thing as me saying, "he has never been abusive towards you".

i agree that some of the things he has done to you, are definately "abusive".

I am being picky with you and what you have written today, in hopes that you will be discerning about identifying what parts are, and what parts are not.

Be careful of the trap that some WS's fall into:
they are unhappy in their marriage, so "they were never happy".
they dont feel love for their spouse, so "they never loved their spouse".

Please be careful about painting ALL his annoying, poor-communication habits, as abusive.

If every time he argues or confronts you, you think of it as abuse (when it isnt always), then you are sabotaging your love bank for him unfairly.

I'm being picky, in hopes that you dont build a wall between you and your husband, because you suddenly start seeing "abuse" in everything he says and does.

yes, there are definately things that need work!

"choose your battles carefully", as they say.

sure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

((((((((Techie)))))))

Thanks, Techie!

I really think that there is a fine line...I woudn't come out and tell him that he is being abusive...I would however remain being O&H about everything...

LOL...I may not say everything right all the time and I do have to correct myself and apologize with clarity...

I see what you are saying about my LB...this conversation really helped clarify the WS's fog for me...considering alot of the things that have been said and done was during the A, when I had no clue...I also agreed with Cajun that the BS can fall into a trap/fog of our own...

I really see your point now and understand what you are saying...

HUm, I just thought about the books that he burned...I still have the "evidence" at work and I thought to myself, "when are you going to let that go?" IS there a point to keeping it now, or should I hold on to it a little longer...I don't think that I am ready to get rid of it yet...I'm still very protective of my books, even months later...

Oh, on a side note to everyone, the glass in the entertainment center has not been replaced yet either...it doesn't bother me!

OH, OH...H is really stepping up to the plate at work...I mean like looking at career options...there are inspectors for the jobs that he does, well, one is our friend and him and H have talked about H taking the test...well, H came home this morning with the material for the test...

I got up with him when he came home and we talked for awhile as he cleaned bike...he got a new front rim with his bonus and the back one was dirty and it didn't look right...

So, I wanted a newspaper, so H had to get the material copied and back to this guy and asked me to do it...so, I didn't tell him that I was going, decision made on the way, but I stopped by my work this morning, copied the papers, went to the gas station, got my newspaper and since I drove his truck and the gas light was on, put gas in his truck...

H was pretty shocked that I had copied the stuff when I got back...LOL...even asked where I copied it...I work maybe two minutes formt he house, so all I had to do was wait for the copy machine to warm up and I was out of there in five minutes...

So, I'm backing him up if this is what he wants to do...from what I understand it would be a good career move for him...

I called H last night and asked why since he was boss that he hasn't BBQed, he asked if he could call me back in a few minutes and when he did he said that they were glad that I had the idea. H gave me a list of things to get, I was going to the store and that's why I called him, so he BBQed for the guys at work last night and the inspector on the job is buying some ribs or something tonight for H to do...

I told H that I just thought that it was a incentive for these guys and a way to show them that he appreciated them and their work.

I'm feeling much better today...I think I had mentioned that my dr. had given me something to help me sleep, well, it wasn't working and this is the second time that he's gave me this med. but it was a lower dose...it did the same thing...mood swings, very aggressive, the world was worse than it was, so I had stop taking it maybe four days ago...

I was keeping H up to date on it too, well, my regular AD, I hadn't taken either because I kept forgetting to go pick it up and they close early...so I made a point to get them yesterday and I can already feel the difference...

So, I guess that I'm going to have to make another appt. to talk to him about my sleep b/c it really wasn't working, I was still waking four or five times a night...then, not being "Awake" until about 10 in the morning...

The past month has been really interesting with everyone sick, H going nights again, and me. The kids started with the runny nose again...all I can say is PLEASE Lord help me...

Oh, I got the GN to come over and help me put up the light in the hall...I talked to H about that too...H said I see that you got the light up in the hall...I said yeah, I got B to come over and do it. (We had a talk about HN) I said I was thinking after we got off the phone last night that I still see you doing things your HN before me...I asked how many things had he done for her in the past few weeks and I asked for you to put up that light the first time you went nights and again after this time...

I think that it was a calm, nice talk...that was the point to me getting up and spending time with him...H still thinks that I jealous of H...I told him it's not that I'm jealous of her, I don't like the way she has handled the R with us from the start...

ONG, HN would impose so much...all in all, H and I had a good talk about her too...I asked her H to help me with something else, I need his truck, it's smaller than mine and I'm still waiting on him...this is typical of him...I'll have to ask again...

Well, I've rattled on this morning.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Rinder, did you catch my music thread?

Hope you find something good - still praying for you.

Hi, I saw that you saw my post...we use to have a radio station that played Christian music but it didn't last long...so I am grateful for you sharing with me...

I'm cooking some red beans and rice with some green onion sauage tonight...I'm so looking forward to it...I asked H a little earlier why he ate HN's red beans and not mine. He responsed by saying on come on...I said why do you eat OP's white beans and not mine...to why he replied Put some meat in them like I told you...HN doesn't put meat in her's and OP don't put meat in their's...I asked what do you want ground meat in the whole thing? He didn't say anything...

I don't get it and maybe you guys can give me some insight...why eaet OP's stuff but not mine...white beans, red beans, field peas, black eye peas...this is stuff I grew up on and love and I don't cook it b/c it goes to waste or I'm the only one that eats them...well, F ates some blacck eye peas that I cooked the other day...I finished them off for lunch...

Just wondering? I know that I'm not a bad cook, not I think I am sometimes...and I don't cook these things and I enjoy them...I usually wait until nights like tonight...the kids ate BK, I bought H some and H is eating some more BBQ at work tonight...so, I'm cooking just for me...

IS this "normal"? Do OP have this probably? H is a huge meat eater and I could be without it if I had too...

Just needing some thoughts... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FYI, radio station over here, has a webcast:

www.thefish959.com

Cool, thanks techie!

Here is my local station. They also stream the music.

http://www.fxradio.homestead.com/index.html

Also check out www.christianrock.net