At this point, I will try to carry out the plan A, I will continue to show her love and affection, to try and spend more time with her and be more attentive. I will also not initiate any talk on the M (yeah, heard that before, buster <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ) and I will push for her to change jobs and establish NC. I will shop for a good marriage counsellor and if she's not yet ready, will go myself.

If nothing else, the past 2 weeks have taught me a lot more about myself. And despite the pain and the agony, I am a better man for it. And I have you guys also to thank, so thank you for helping me through the initial stages <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your WW wasn't lying to her mum, you two ARE having a disagreement...she doesn't owe her mother full disclosure, as she does you.



Can you?



What kind of things does your WW want you to change about yourself?



Would you expect your WW to give 110% to your marriage if she were on drugs?

Or would you allow her time to focus on her addiction and working out whatever stuff she needs to in her head first? And then once she's better ask her if she was willing to recommit to the M?

Would you consider carrying the load in your marriage while your WW heals herself?



What difference does it make what her reasons for trying to work on your M are?

If your goal is to recover your M, what difference does the why make?



If you aren't going to expose the A for the purpose of breaking it up, then I don't understand why you think you need to 'tell the truth".

Not telling does NOT equal a lie.

She doesn't owe anyone full disclosure, but you.

I feel as though this is another threat from you. That either she get on board and work on this M or else you will expose her A to her loved ones.

I'm telling you, Dev, you are sucking her love banks dry when you do this.

You are misusing the tool exposure.




Translation: She's almost ready to expose what she did to take your threat away.



Please hear what she's trying to say to you.



Agreed, the A was entirely her responsibilty.



Good job.

~ Marsh

Good.

When you want to vent or talk about your R, come here and talk to us.



If you can afford it, why not give Dr. Harley a call?

Have you printed out the Emotional need and love busting questionaires from here?

~ Marsh

Hi Marsh,

Thanks for putting some things into perspective. You're right, exposure is a tool for stopping the A, and now that I'm sure its stopped, there is no need for others to know besides the two of us. I have not used the threat of exposure since the day I threatened to tell her mum about it, and last night she did mention that she may just tell her mum herself when she sees her during Christmas. I told her that it would be up to her if she felt like she wanted to tell her mum.

"Would you consider carrying the load in your marriage while your WW heals herself?"

That's another new perspective for me. Somehow I never quite saw it that way. But you're right, we both need to move on, and we may not be as strong as how we portray ourselves. I need to see it from the perspective that she may need me to be strong for her, whether or not she needs it or wants it at the moment.

I think the hardest part (for me) about plan A at the moment is to NOT to initiate or talk about the R or M with her.

Also, I think we still have trust issues. For example, just now I asked her if she was still going to the gym tonight with her best friend, and she replied no, her general manager had called a last minute meeting at 8pm tonight. I called her up and said I thought it was strange that she would call a meeting at night, and she said, yes, prob cause they didn't hit their targets this quarter, and the GM was on leave, so she asked for a meeting at 8pm. I then asked, is she REALLY calling for the meeting? To which she replied (in a rather exasperated tone), that yes, she would forward the text message from her boss to me to prove it etc. Not wanting to start another fight I said, no never mind. *sigh* What should I do in situations like these?

At this point I don't think I could afford calling Dr. Harley and 45-50 minutes is not going to help us much, it would require multiple calls. Plus I'm not in the US, so the international charges would further increase the cost. I'll have to look or ask around for good marriage counsellors.. think the church has a few people, but I'm not sure if they're experienced enough for dealing with infidelity cases. We'll see.

Oh and yes, I've printed them out some time ago. She said she's not ready to do them yet

Quick question:

Will it do any good to confront the OW, either warn her to back off else tell her the "if you truly care for her, you'll make this a lot less painful and difficult by just going away and never contacting her again"

Else I can always threaten her with exposure, I know where she works, stays and even which church she attends.

It would make ME feel better, and really, I had a very strong urge to head down to the office today to do it, but would it serve any (useful) purpose?

I'm not convinced the A is over.

She sent her a Christmas present.

She is still in constant contact w/ her.



Yes, she needs you to be strong for her, but NOT controlling.

She needs YOU to be consistent in your commitments to your M.

She needs you to RESPECT her boundaries, feelings, thoughts and opinions.

Respecting someone else's boundaries takes STRENGTH.

Demanding, threatening, controlling demonstrates weakness.




You're not alone.

This is one of the things a BS struggles w/ most.


Of course you do.

It's perfectly understandable.



Ask just like you did.

~ Marsh

This won't do any good.

She doesn't care about your WW.



DON'T THREATEN EXPOSURE!!!

You just do it!!!



Unless you are going to EXPOSE, don't go down there.

~ Marsh

Thx Marsh,

Last night the WS came home and said that in Feb/March next year there will be a few trips out of the country for conferences and such. I asked when they were and said I could do with a break as well. She replied "If you're worried that she's going to be there, you don't have to. She told me today she was going to resign, and soon"

I just said, "Well, I'll believe it when I see it". We didn't talk about it anymore after that and went to bed early. This morning was pretty much the same also, no affection or anything from her, despite me kissing her good morning etc. Oh well, get used to it I guess.

Tonight she's going to the gym with her best friend. I initially wanted to go along (its in this shoppin centre) but since her friend's going, I thought never mind.

Question about plan A. When she wants to go out -by herself she says, what do I do? Should I just let her go or should I just act like I don't care? Every time she goes out without me or someone I know, I get appehensive and wonder if she's meeting the OW. I'm still struggling with this -what should I do? Insist to go along?

And you're right. There is still some EA going on. They are still talking to each other and see each other at work every day. How do I know whether they meet up again in secret or still communicate even after either of them leaves the company? Or am I thinking too many steps ahead already?

Another question: We both earn about the same, and if counting her sales commissions and allowances, she makes more than I do actually. Right now all of my money is in a joint account with her -should I take my share out and put it into my own account? And credit cards, should I cancel all the ones which I've sub'ed to her (she has 1 or 2 of her own)? Or would this be seen as 'pushing' her again? Thx

Oh and she has no objection to me taking my 1/2 of the $ out, last time I mentioned to her.

Today I met up for lunch with the wife, she wanted MacDonald's of all things, when I told her she could have anything <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Still this distance between us, I've had to initiate holding hands when we took a short stroll in the park after lunch. I was attentive duing lunch, getting her ketchup when her's was finished (she was taken aback saying "Wow, you're so attentive today! ;D )

I didn't talk about the marriage or relationship, but since her sister was coming tomorrow to visit, I told her that right now, she doesn't need to be accountable to tell anyone anything, except me. The only person she needs to be totally honest about this whole thing is me, not her sister, mother or anyone. She says she understands.

I then held her hand as we were driving and after a while she pulled back. I asked her "Are you not ready or comfortable with this?". She said I was being sensitive, then later on said she just wasn't used to me being so loving. I said no problem, if you're not yet comfortable then just tell me and I'll stop trying to hold your hand.

Is my plan A working?

Coincidentally, as we were turning into my office area, we saw the OW's car waiting to turn out. I asked my wife in jest "Should I give her the finger?" and she said "please don't"... I laughed and just gave her a stare as we drove past her car. I asked again "why not the finger?" and she replied, you can do so, she doesn't care... man, I have to stop doing this ;D

D:

Your biggest problem is she is still connected to the OW. She may be wanting to end it, but the OW is being as kind to her as she can be too. On your other thread, you state she wants to be alone to think. This usually means a person wants better access to their lover without being questioned, according to Dr. Harley. It is crucial to get her out of her job, or the vacilation will continue on. My FWW convinced me to let her stay in her job and I agreed but almost at the expense of my marriage. Her OM worked her everyday against me. It was after she left, did my marriage start slowly rebounding.

toosoon

Thanks TooSoon,

Both my friend and I agreed that the OW is playing the wounded, sacrificial martyr, with all her [censored] statements of "What do you want me to do?" "If you say so, I'll resign now" and "If that's what you want, then we'll stay clear of each other, promise" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> while at the same time telling her that she'll "be there for her" and that she's "madly in love with my WS". Man, that makes me sick to my stomach, and if I were intoxicated and saw her in a dark alley I'd probably throttle her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But yes, my WS is going for an interview on Monday, and will continue to press her to apply for more jobs this weekend (Sat recruitment pages is usually the best). She has also told me the OW has said she'll be leaving the company soon, but I think its bull, she'll probably stick around to see if she can get back into my WS's pants again, else boogie out and look for another target. I am pushing for them to be separated, at least from the workplace. I'll deal with the post-workplace thing after

Hi Dev,


What did you mean by this?

Did you mean you'd be happy to spend time away from your WW?



No, don't insist on going.

If I were you, I'd start planning some fun activities and ask your WW to go along w/ YOU. If she says no, then DON'T act sad or angry, but you go out anyway!

Have you thought about taking up a new hobby? A project?Working out at the gym?

Remember, Plan A is about improving YOURSELF!



The only way to know for sure if they are meeting up is to spy.

If you're not willing to use exposure to kill the A then I suppose you might as well wait till one of them transfers out of their current job and then resume spying.

~ Marsh

Good job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Chances are conversation is a high EN of your WW's, so don't forget to LISTEN to her. Less talk and more listening.

Do you know anything about mirroring?



I think this type of mindset is a very good one to have as long as she's not still engaded in the A.

You are demonstrating protectiveness to your WW and your M.

HOWEVER, if the A is still ongoing then keeping her A a secret would be THE worst thing you could do for your M.



Touching a WS is something you need to be careful about. Keep paying attention to her reaction whenever you do it.

I think causal touching works better. Touch her as you walk past her, slip your arm around her waist when you are walking across the street or guiding her through a restaurant.

Playful touching is good too.

Affection can be shown in other ways than just physical touching.

Concern for how she feels, turning up the heat when she's cold, covering her up, getting her an aspirin if she has a head ache, fixing her a nice meal, calling her Sweetheart, Darling...are all ways of showing her affection.


~ Marsh

Good.

Don't let up about this.

One of them HAS to leave the job.

~ Marsh

Hey, thanks Marsh.

"I asked when they were and said I could do with a break as well.
--------------

What did you mean by this?

Did you mean you'd be happy to spend time away from your WW?"

Sorry, meant to say "I asked when they were going, and that I could do with a break as well" -meaning I don't mind accompanying her for the conference trip.

About using exposure to kill the A, I still think that at this point it would do more harm to our relationship than good. She's already indicated that they are both going to leave this job, she has told me that its off (and from what I can SEE so far, it is) and the OW is also saying she'll leave (if you can believe that lying biaach). I'll give her till mid-late Jan and see what the deal is. If they both start stalling on the leaving part, then I'll take a litle trip down to have a chat with the general manager, as that option is always open to me.

When she came back last night, she was more affectionate, and same thing this morning. We held hands, and she even initiated some of them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Prgress I think. I didn't ask her about the R or M or the OW and we went out for breakfast. Until she told me she had gone to that same place with the OW before for lunch and my mood took a slight dip

Anyway, she's out shopping with her sister, who will definitely try to busybody her way to get my WS to spill the beans. But my WS already said she was not going to tell her sis anything.

Plan A is moving along slowly, but at least its moving! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, I got it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



That is progress.



Good job!

~ Marsh

Well, the weekend went by pretty quickly. Saturday she spent shopping with the sister, then we ended up having dinner at home (she cooked). Sunday morning she went to the gym, I followed saying I wanted to walk around the shopping complex (but partly because I'm still paranoid about her meeting the OW, but she didn't). We shopped a bit after that, and in the beginning she was a bit cold, didn't want to hold hands and such, then after lunch we talked for a while (not about M or R), with me making some jibes about the OW. It was raining so we went home and took a nap, and it was nice holding her as we both went to sleep. When we woke up, she was more affectionate and last night it was almost like old times again (but not quite). The few times I mentioned about the OW was to try and put more doubt in her mind about her, saying things like I was reading some lesbian forums and all they talk about is about "chasing skirts" in the office and that kind of thing. I also said that prior to joining the same company as my wife, this OW prob left her previous job because of the same reason, that she got involved with another colleague.

Interestingly, a point I forgot to mention. The OW used to be very close to this lady (Ms.D) from another company (they were colleagues before the OW joined my WS's company). And my collague who knows this Ms. D used to always say that Ms. D and the OW were lesbians cause they were ALWAYS together, both during and after work, something like my WS and her.

So anyway, I brought this up again and I know that my WS was thinking about it also. When I mentioned later at night to my WS how was probably lured in from the start, instead of the semi-defensive answer she usually gives, she just said somewhat sheepishly "I guess that's the danger in falling for a person in sales". I said not only sales but a lesbian who's used to sweet-talking and pulling the right strings and my WS nodded. Woo hoo! Score one for me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I did ask her if she was ever tempted to call or text her again, and she said sometimes, but that she was afraid to do it, even though she sometimes feels like she wants to. She still misses the conversations and stuff, but she'd afraid to re-initiate contact cause she knows she doesn't want the entire cycle to start again.

Anyway, she's going for the job interview later, so hope there's some good news there and I can get them both apart.

HELP!!! All I want is revenge!

Last night, I took a relative fishing while the wife stayed at home chatting with her sister. We went to a fishing place where me, the OW and my WS, together with some other colleagues fished at once, about 2 months ago. Whilst I was there, I saw another lesbian couple and I started thinking that even back then, I could already detect some resentment from the OW, kinda like a competitor sizing up the opponent before a fight, but back then I dismissed.

When we went home, I just lay awake thinking of all that had happened, and foremost on my thoughts was this:

Why should I and my WS be left to pick up the pieces, to go through all the pain of trying to reconcile, the pain of rejection, the pain of resentment and all the hurt -when that lesbian B!tch just walks off scott-free and looks for another target?? I got so mad I woke up in a semi-rage, woke up the WS and started questioning her again about things that had happened, and when she gave me an exasperated look I roared at her until she looked half terrified that I was going to kill her and was almost in tears. I demanded to know why she didn't feel any disgust for what she had done -and with another woman!! and WTF was wrong with her head? Etc etc... eventually after almost an hour we went back to sleep, though on both sides of the bed.

I awoke in much the same mood -still angry and still wanting revenge. I demanded to know the OW's address (she still lives with her parents) and my WS said she'll give it to me tonight. I told her, you can tell her I'm not going to let her walk away from this. We parted angry, and it was like a part of my old self had awoken.

I realized I've set back any progress we've made the last week, but I still feel immense rage. All I want to do is to DESTROY the OW, to destroy her reputation, her career. I'm so angry right now that if I saw her, I'm afraid of what I would do to her. I feel like writing a letter addressed to her parents, detailing all that has happened. A letter to her employer, telling them of the affair. I feel like showing up at her church, and like a mad man, denouncing this lesbian that targets other men's wives. I'm so angry I don't know what to do. I know that it takes two to clap, but the more I think on it, the more I realized that she was trying to get into my WS's pants from the start. My WS will have to live with what she has done, and to go through the pains of rebuilding our marriage -what about the OW??

Are these feelings normal?? What can I do? Help before I do something stupid

Dev,

You need to get control over yourself here.

The Bible says, "Be angry, but sin not."

It's OK to feel anger, BUT it isn't ok to let your rage loose.

You experinced a very strong trigger.

Your first mistake was going to where the OW and my WS fished at once together.

So instead of spending a relaxing time fishing you spent it feeding your angry, resentful thoughts.

And do you see where it got you?

It got you to a place where you gave yourself permission to...



Not good.

Instead of making your WW feel safe, YOU made her fear for her life.




Yes, you feel immense rage.

And b/c you do you think it gives you permission to do this...



Does it?



Yes, your feelings are normal. It's OK to feel anger, BUT it's not OK to BECOME anger.

Be angry and SIN NOT.

I suggest you go somewhere and calm down.

You don't want to do any more damage to your W. So, you'd better stay away from her untill you have yourself under control.

And DON'T do anything to OW either.

You are WAAAAAAY too out of control to trust yourself.

DON'T DO ANYTHING until you have calmed down.

Your job for tonight is to stay away from your W and calm yourself down.

Got it?

Seriously.

~ Marsh