This another term that I dont buy. When those on this board say "they are in a Fog"....."its the Fog talking".

I feel this term lets the wayward off the hook. I think waywards know exactly what they are doing. They know about affairs, what they will do and how they harm everyone involved. That word FOG is like a drug addict saying they were in a FOG when they committed a crime. The law could care LESS about that word, or what state you were in.

Lets just call it as it is.......bad decision making. The person knows what they are doing. There is NO fog involved at all.

Oh, and one more thing.......when someone says I want my wife/husband back....not this imposter.....LOL, that another funny one. You HAVE your wife/husband.....they are just cheaters.....they made the decision to cheat. Its not an imposter....its what you HAVE at the time.....a cheating spouse. Same person, but they made a stupid choice.

OK, Im off my soapbox.

SO, I sometimes have to agree w/ you on that....on ALL that !!!!!

I'm going to both agree and disagree with you...how about that for odd?

The agreement...

Yes. There was and were and probably continue to be what I would call "choice points" in which the WS cognitively chose to do what they knew was not "right" by their own set of standards [this is usually where the secrecy comes to play]. They made a wrong choice...a bad choice which brings me to

The disagreement...

When they stepped of the path of sanity into fantastical thinking they very greatly lost the ability to reason or make accurate predictions.

Any person who has spent much time in the company of the fogged can testify that..for them..1 + 1 may NOT equal 2 no matter HOW much evidence contradicts their position.

In short they are mentally ill as a result of their own choices. They did not react appropriately to the temptation and as such they have become very lost.

Usually...if you follow the trail of breadcrumbs you can see that SOME of the wrong beliefs and choices predated the affair [and set up a fertile environment] and often even the marriage relationship...sometimes by decades so in a sense they had some very vulnerable areas that were always present but not very obvious.

More agreement...this is not an alien...it IS your spouse...it is your spouse with mental illness, self induced and otherwise.

Have I seen the alien reference taken too far for my liking..certainly...yet I have also seen the selfish pig rewrite extended...always wanted to ask...what attracts you to a selfish pig? The short answer..well they weren't before...

So it is a given that the behvior in MOST cases is an aberration and NOT what the spouse recognizes as being the primary norm...it FEELS alien and is confusing.

It is also interesting how much they resemble EACH OTHER. Most active WSs share intense similarity with...spoilt children and really need NOTHING so much as to have their consequences spank them mercilessly until they have reoriented to reality and are able to function as sober adults again.

Thanks Lovegod......I think alot of people like to sugar coat things to make their wayward seem better than they really are. Like.....the peron their now isnt the person before.....IT IS.....they just CHOSE to have an affair.

I dont see the FOG present myself. Same person, bad choices.

None of this is fantasy.....its actually happening.

So we can go ahead and write it off as FOG (insanity) when every affair goes full blown??? LOL.......... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Way to allow the wayward to have an OUT on what they did.

Who says that gives them an out?

Do you understand the difference between an explanation and an excuse?

I read what you posted.......you have basically blurred the affair into the person not being in their right mind.

Almost all who have had an affair will say they didnt know why they did it, that they were in a FOG.

THINKING ERRORS [color:"red"] <~~~ click [/color]

"fog" is a short-cut term that encompasses most of the "thinking errors" that the adulterous use to justify dismembering their own value system

pretty simple, really

all addicts function in a similar fashon

we say "fog" ... because the thinking process is not-too-sharp in affairees.... they do say the dumbest things sometimes

Pep

Oh, I don't think they have an "out"....I do believe, however, that sometimes they get caught up in the feeling they have when they are w/ the OP, but I still believe that they are conscious when they make the decision to be w/ that OP...its not an explanation or an excuse..

I guess Pepperband......I dont know. I would say the person made a terrible decision and is continuing to do so. FOG sounds like something you cant control or are aware of. That sounds like being let off the hook by something you dont know, can control, or sometimes not know about. JMHO.

S/O:

Kind takes the Betrayed spouse of the hook, too, doesn't it?

There is a "FOG" The same "FOG" that allowed you to marry that person in the first place. But that "FOG" blew away sometime during the course of the marriage and somebody ended up in an A. And all the justifications they have for having this A is "FOG" speak. Unless, they leave the BS and go on to have a happy life with the new person. Doesn't happen very often. But maybe the WS was unhappy and the BS was a bad person.

That's why it is called the "FOG" Because the WS is lost, and the BS has to become the lighthouse to guide the WS home. Eventually the "FOG" clears and the M gains a new sense of normalcy, that works for both spouses. A new "FOG" is created that is the love between the BS and WS as they become the BS and FWS.

And yes, I knew what I was doing during my A. But I made the choice on DDay to do the right thing and not drag it out for a year sitting on a fence in "FOG" land. Yes, I am and will always be a cheater. But I am not that same person during the A.

Just my .02

SO, no one is excusing them at all, though. That is your own misinterpretation. There IS NO excuse. When we say the "fog" it is not to EXCUSE them, but to EXPLAIN THEM.

As a recovering alcoholic who is 21 years sober, I can tall you that a WS acts JUST LIKE an addict in their warped thinking. Surely you can see how warped and how of touch these people are while in an affair? Surely this has not escaped your notice.

When someone is doing something wrong, it is much easier to ALTER REALITY than it is to alter behavior, hence the wacked out, strange mentality of a WS that is similar to that of an addict.

Do you understand the question tha noodle put to you: Because that is where I think you are not getting it.

I respect your opinion, but disagree. Marriage and love should NOT be based on FOG.....its reality. I never married either one of my wives on/in a FOG. I married them on love alone. Now if EX chose to have an affair....it wasnt an overnight thing. It took place over the course of a long period of time. The affair went on for 4yrs. You are gonna tell me my EX was in a FOG for 4yrs???? LOL, I just dont believe that at all.......sorry. *shrugs*

I guess she is in a NEW FOG now, since she is dating another married man. Wow, my EX hasnt delt with reality in over 5yrs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Completely.......the line is blurred.

Answer this. If a wayward has an affair for 10yrs. You are telling me the explanation would be FOG? Is this correct?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I think that unless you have married a person who just does not VALUE faithfullness honesty integrity [in which case I'd have to ask why you married a person whose beliefs so contradict your own and whose behavior is so off putting to you perhaps you were in a fog of magical thinking of your own?] etc that it is OBVIOUS that they aren't in their right mind by that time.

People who have diligently intentionally sacrificed to create college funds for their children over a period of years and then clean them out to fund a three day [censored] party...does that SOUND like rational sane behavior to you?

People who tear down the work of their own hands...who destroy and neglect what has historically been very important to them...does that sound sane?

People who willfully damage their own children and are blind to that damage...sound like they have a good grip on reality and future consequences for todays behavior?

I would say not. I would say that it is OBVIOUS that they are making choices from a sick unhealthy place. I think they have created a self destructive environment.

I also think they are accountable for every bit of it.

We are all susceptable to this possibility...that is why vigilance and discernment is required to NOT go down that road. People who have done it have been weak and they have been fools. The ones who make it out regret it terribly and that regret does NOTHING to remove or put a salve on the destruction and broken things. They made real choices and the consequences are likewise real.

My premise is based on the concept that as human beings we are all inherently selfish and self preserving..people who intentionally cause harm to themselves are acting out of accordance with the demonstrable "norm" of sanity.

Usually they are also acting out of accordance with their own history and beliefs and choices up to that point.

huh? I am confused, LG. What is the BS "on the hook" for? I thought we were talking about affairs here. Only the WS can be on the hook for that. Can you clarify what you mean?

I think of "fog" as in "lost in the ....."

adultery is a sure-fire way to lose the self we admire in ourselves

to me

that is the true FOG

they are struggling with who they are

mosy of the adulterous are first-timers .... and most are appalled at what they have done .... so they manufacture "excuses" to justify being adulterous ... and they squirm around trying to avoid their own moral compass ... and they blather blah blah blah .... and are so obviously lost to themselves...

what say you?

Pep

a 10-year A is a lack of character
or a mental illness
or both
same goes for multiple affairs as well

read "People Of The Lie" by M. Scott Peck ... it takes a certain lack of character development to sustain a 10 year lie

"fog" in a 10-year affair is the rationalizations / lies / thinking errors that the 10-year adulterous tells his/her self

it is not an excuse at all
it is a description of their warped thinking

Pep

No, that is not what I said at all. The explanation for their affair could be anything. The fog only explains their state of mind.

This line is not "blurred" for me. It is blurred for you.

There is an undeniable indisputable connection between behavior and neurochemistry.

This means that you brain chemistry affects your behavior AND that your behavior affects your brain chemistry.