Can I EDIT THAT???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Naw, just resign yourself to the fact you blew it this time!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, you'll just have to suck it up Mel!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I guess I have to stand up and be counted here. The last few posts have really been the climax of my day.



SB

that's right, just PILE ON, schoolbus and MrsW!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I never expected such a headstrong lady to whine... LOL!
SD

you ain't seen nothing yet, Mister! **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

**thud**

I love that, and am shamelessly stealing it from you. Just so you know! Ya big haired Texan!

SD

You know something? MEN get tired, too. I was SO frusterated with my S/O.... I was always wanting but not getting the SF.. I just didn't get it- WHY was this man not wanting SEX as much as I did? Him- strong , healthy Man- no hang-ups, no- impotence problems- Me- Not bad looking- especially since I've gone from a size 22-24 to a size 11.... and Insatiable.... I thought it was me- I questioned our relationship...everything- BUT...He works 18+ hours a day frequently, and 6 days a week in the oil field- long grueling hours in extreme weather, hard continuous physical labor... (Yeah- it took me awhile to understand)--- It wasn't that he didn't WANT sex- HE WAS/IS JUST TOO DANGED TIRED TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON IT!...... even sometimes with me doing all the "work" so to speak... It has been tough- but I am finally getting the picture...and being more sympathetic to HIS NEEDS (sleep for one)... I had to ask him to at least hold me and "cuddle" with me for at least 15 minutes each night before going to sleep- that way- I have some of my EN (intimacy) met, and he gets his rest w/o having to exert more energy - and w/o ME keeping him awake because I am upset about not getting sex... However- I LIVE FOR HIS DAY OFF!!! And occassionally- an early AM quickie before he leaves for work... Then there are times- when I don't mind just being the "giver"... a little "oral delights" as he calls it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...then, also there are those days, where- like you said- a little "preventative maintenance" (self-gratification) helps, too.Of course, he doesn't know this)....don't know for sure HOW he'd react, either- but I would not hide nor lie to him about it..Who knows, maybe it would even be a "turn-on"?? Any way- I guess I have went far beyond my point. Men are not the only ones with high needs for SF...and there are ways to work around the problem- ya just gotta talk to each other about it and find a MUTUALLY acceptable compromise...Like, with us often- He's tired and sore- so I let him relax by GIVING him a good neck/shoulders/back massage... and in return, he feels a little more refreshed and GIVES me the intimate attention I need.... It is a mutual giving- where both our EN are being met , and we are both satisfied... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

4M,

That's what I'm talking about! Meeting half-way...

I think women forget that there's a receiving in the sex dept. Too often, they perceive it as giving - and forget the "getting". Change the perception, change the whole scene in the bedroom, in the marriage.

Guys can take a lesson on this. If guys understood that many women think in this way, they could use it to their advantage. Women really are looking for the romance.

I always tell my H that romance is really kind of corny, really. Pick flowers, light candles, soft music. Set the stage, and make it soft and relaxing. It isn't the expense, it's the thought behind it - that he is thinking of her, wanting her, loving her, and that she is on his mind. That he wants to share with her.

That he has had her on his mind, and has wanted to be with her.

Let her know that you planned it, you thought about it, that you want to spend time in the seduction.

That's the romance.



Once a guy's shown her the romance, the quickies are far more likely, don't you think?

SB

Hello everybody,

Wow, sex does sell. I knew I'd eventually get responses to this thread.

I wanted to make a few points in response to all the discussion here.

1) SF as an important EN for men: There was a lot of discussion around the need for men to meet the needs of their wives, help around the house, help with the children, give affection, give undivided attention, and anything else they can do to make their wives happy. I take that as a given. The whole point of the MB site is to learn to be experts at meeting our partner's needs. I think there is still an issue that many women genuinely don't understand what SF means to a man, just as I KNOW I didn't understand the harm I was causing my spending all my time at work, on the computer, or even playing with the kids instead of TALKING with my dear wife. Because sex is thought to be shallow, or not a "real" need, or a "selfish" need, women actually laugh at the idea that it could be that important to their man. When I figure out the best way to communicate the importance of this need to a wife without it turning into demands, I'll be sure to let you know.

2) "Preventative maintenance", or to drop the cute euphemisms, MASTURBATION. I found it very interesting that a few people here assumed that masturbation would be done with the full knowledge and consent of the other partner, whereas others thought the idea of sharing the act of masturbation to be ridiculous. I believe the majority of people assume masturbation must be a hidden, secret activity. I certainly thought that. Let's remember that pornography is a larger industry than Hollywood. Men on average can not get enough (which is why it's amazing to me that women don't understand how intense this drive is). I think it's safe to say that the VAST majority of that pornography is going to fuel what is basically a secret solo sex life that the married man keeps hidden from his wife. The wife may from time to time assume that DH has this outlet but not want to know anything more about it. The man may assume he is doing his wife a favor by taking care of his own needs and not bothering her.

Well, I for one have had an epiphany. I am now convinced that the typical man's hidden solo sex life is not doing the wife or the marriage ANY favors. How can we ever hope for our wives to understand the depth of this sexual need when we hide so much of our own activity? It may seem shocking, but yes, I now think masturbation should be performed with the partner present. I have told my W that as part of the change that needs to happen in our marriage, that I will no longer have my own sex life (with myself) on the side. I want to share everything with her, including this. I think she thought the idea was a little strange at first, but she certainly didn't object. So far I think it has helped our relationship and recovery, and we have resumed very satisfying SF as well. I also think that when you can masturbate in front of your partner, you are truly opening yourself up and sharing your most private moment. The typical man has hidden this activity his whole life. Now it is in the open with the one person you should be able to share everything with. It can be an even more intimate form of sharing than SF.

I think the concept of a COMPLETELY shared sex life is truly radical. I know there will be many who think it is unnecessary or infeasible, or even unmanly. But I for one am now convinced that this is a natural extension of the MB policy of RADICAL HONESTY, and I never want to go back.

NS

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
regarding #1, SF can be and is an intense EN- even for Women... By having sex with our partner- "making love", we often feel a more emotionally connecting bond, not just physical satisfaction. [color:"red"] [/color]

regarding #2, masturbation...I agree, and I too think it is an general "ASSUMPTION" often times on both parts.. with no real trust...a partner who masturbates in secrecy- does not trust this bit of info to his / or her partner...therefore builds walls within the relationship, where continued unmet needs and secrecy tends to increase the size & strength of such walls,

regarding your "epipheny"- OMG!!! If only we could ALL see & understand the same!!! Couldn't have said it better. However- I think more of us should open up and be honest with our partners- as well as ourselves, in this particular subject. And yes- often even mutual masturbation can be a very satisfying sexual experience for both.

I wish my partner & I were closer in this respect....it's something we are working on. A very delicate matter, indeed. It is something that is learned and grown into in a relationship- I think.....

NS that post was excellent. I agree with everything you said and came to a lot of the same realizations recently.

Well the title certainly made me look at the thread, as SF (or lack thereof) was, I am sure, one reason my FWH strayed.

I can see that the 'problem' has now reached a conclusion, but wanted to add that sometimes the lack of willingness for SF on the part of the woman may not always be down to giving or taking, or whatever other reasons have been discussed here. I had a hysterectomy some years ago and SF became painful a little while later, to the extent that we did not have SF for some years. H said he didn't initiate SF after a while as he didn't want to hurt me. After discovering my FWH's recent affair, which was only emotional when I first found the evidence, our sex life did resume but I was still having pain till I decided to do something about this by getting some lubricant (should have done that years ago - we might not be in this situation now!).

Also, after discovering the affair, I became quite ill, and some of the symptoms I now know to be menopausal. I think that all the pain and lack of libido in the past was probably the pre-menopause starting without me realising. I have had other vague symptoms over the years that came and went without any further investigation needed. Again, I now realise that these were pre-menopausal, brought on by the operation.

So, my point, don't jump to conclusions as to why some women have a problem with sex. Could be a physical problem at the root of it all.

I wanted to provide an update to this thread. It has been a little over a month since I decided that secret masturbation is poison to a marriage, and not a helpful way to even out the imbalanced sex drives of a man and woman.

I am more convinced than ever now. I realize what a major area of secrecy this was in my own marriage, and how good it feels now to know I have nothing to hide from my wife. Also, I think there can be a vicious circle that arises out of secret masturbation. It goes like this: The man physically needs sex. He feels uncomfortable and won't be able to relax, concentrate, or sleep without it. He also knows that if he makes advances on his wife at night, there is a high likelihood that she will reject him. Not only does this hurt emotionally, but it leaves the man physically uncomfortable and unable to easily go to sleep. To avoid this, the man masturbates in secrecy so he is not left physically dependent on his wife. But what just happened? The man didn't even express the desire, let alone attempt to seduce his wife! Do this enough, and you are at risk of the woman assuming that the man does not find her sexy or attractive anymore, plus women need SF too and the lack of it can cause both to feel more and more emotionally distant from each other.

Now, imagine this instead. The man does his best to meet the needs of his wife throughout the evening, and makes advances to his wife at night. If she really can not be persuaded, the man takes care of his own needs with her present. The act becomes a shared experience, and the wife knows that 1) her husband does find her sexy and 2) her husband really needs sex. And if all goes well, you will find that you and your wife simply end up having more sex. (I think Mrs. NS and I have already surpassed our 2006 total in the first few weeks of 2007!)

I will admit that this might not work in the long run if the wife never joins in. The man will have had his physical need met, but not the emotional need. Also, your wife may scream "put that thing away!". My advice there is to be honest, and say this is something you need to do and you'd rather not do it behind her back.

But because I suspect that there are millions (yes, millions) of men out there who hide masturbation and pornography from their wives, I want to beseech any man reading this to consider this approach to your sex life.

NS