Tried that. She wouldn't agree to it, and the judge "won't interfere in her personal life" I was told.

Ouch. You are really strong, SD; I don't know how you do it. I'm glad you had a good time at practice.

Nothing wrong with smashing something, either, so long as it's meant to be smashed...milk jugs in the recycling bin? Or "smashing" the baseball at the batting cages (ball = OM head)? or bowling (pins=OM)?

My IC recommended smashing glass bottles, and I actually tried that once. I put a brick in the recycling bin and tried to break beer bottles against it, but they wouldn't break. They were just really really loud.

Batting cages is a good idea.

I'm feeling much better. A walk helped. I know that I am good and strong. I know that I can't fix or save WW. I know that OM is a POS. I know that I am twice the parent that WW will ever be. I know that I am doing the right thing. I know that I will be happy however this comes out.

I have many things to say to WW--things that I don't think anyone has said to her, but I know that she won't hear them. So I think to her "It's a fine hole you've made for youself. Just keep digging . . . ."

Hey sdguy--

Just checkin' in. Any word from WW over the weekend? Like, "Why yes, sd...after due consideration I think your proposal is more than reasonable. Let's write it up."

That's my game called: "Best Case Scenario" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm trying to check in with all my Killer Bees today...

~~CJ

P.S. Hasn't the TV told her what to do yet?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Maybe the TV's unplugged.

What be up and stuff SD?

I think DD19 is already packed to go to the beach party in your hood.

I don't know where I am at the moment. I read the other threads about being done and feel that way, too, sometimes. But then other times I look at my situation and think that there's a lot of hope left. Anyway, here's the update.

I hadn't heard anything by Saturday afternoon, so I sent the email asking whether we should continue the court hearing to give ourselves more time. Still nothing back. Sunday morning rolls around, and she drops the kids off. She tells me who hasn't eaten lunch and who does or doesn't need a bath, but nothing about the proposal. The day goes by, and still I hear nothing.

Sidebar: DS7 has been having some anger issues, I think. He torments his little sister. Now, this is a normal stage of development, but lately I have seen him doing it out of anger. Especially when something doesn't go his way and he perceives it is going her way instead. Yesterday at the park, we did what he wanted to do for a while and then went to do what DD3 wanted to do, and he sank into anger. He groused and fumed and ultimately picked up a small nut (I thought it was a rock) and threw it at her, or at least towards her. DS7 is a great kid. He has received glowing comments from every teacher, daycare provider, or parent he has ever been around. So this incident pushed things past the "normal" threshhold.

That, combined with the fact that I need to switch a day with WW, led me to call her yesterday. It was all very pleasant--thet kind of friendly co-parenting that I'm sure she has wanted all along. We agreed to the switch, I explained what had happened at the park (and elsewhere) and we discussed it at some length. She responded like a real mother rather than an alien.

And then I asked about the proposal. Said that I'm sure my lawyer is going to call me, and I want to know what to tell him. She said she still hadn't decided what to do. Her lawyer apparently told her that my proposal was unusual--that there were no direct payments from me to her and questioned the continuance of a joint account. I responded with why I didn't think that was the case, and she didn't disagree with my points.

I said that maybe we should get a continuance just to give ourselves more time. I acknowledged that probably my proposal wasn't enough (I had looked at the numbers again, and it's probably not enough). Then she said I could talk to my lawyer about getting a continuance. I said this is your hearing. She said she didn't know that and that she hadn't told them to schedule it--she just assumed it was the natural progression of things ("I don't know how this works").

I asked again about continuing, and she asked where I was with temporary spousal support. I said that I would work with her but added that she could guess how I felt about it (mistake). She said she needed to think about it and discuss it with the tv and would let me know in the morning. At various points during the conversation, we each acknowledged that we thought we could reach something that was fair and that we didn't need a court order to enforce anything. I ended with 'it was nice talking with you,' and she said 'thanks.'

The bit about not calling the hearing makes me even more convinced that she's just drifting through this and doesn't know what she's doing. I don't think it was the tv she needed to discuss things with last night. And I'm pretty sure if I hadn't called, she would have just let it go to court. She seems very malleable right now, so I may push a little harder to stay out of court.

I'm also kind of looking for an opportunity to insert the 'Just to be clear, I haven't initiated any of this court stuff. I choose marriage. You're the one who wants divorce.' message.

It's not morning anymore, and I haven't heard anything from her. And, yes, my lawyer did call me already. This is all so confusing.

sdg............ugh!!!
I don't envy you in this at all!!!!
I guess you are doing the only thing you can. I think you did real well on the phone with her. cool, calm, collected!!!! you are keeping it together. this stuff bites!!!! hang on!!!

Well, you got an answer; it may be muddled and hard to understand, but it is an answer. Now, you tell your lawyer what you want to try and do. Obviously, you can not rely on your WW to lead this case, as she has no convictions. If she was just dying for a D, wouldn't she know every detail down to where her lawyer liked to have lunch and his favorite sandwich?

I agree. She is not committed to this divorce. I think she may be scared. Somewhere here is an opportunity. Talk to your lawyer.

Hopefully Gilligan's Island does not come on while she is talking to the TV. That could be a set back.

Skipper! I received seasons 1 and 2 as a Christmas gift. Guess I better not send them over with the kids, huh?

No, I agree that there's an opportunity here. I'm just not sure exactly what it is and how to play it.

Get a support agreement I like and then sit on my hands, I think, but I'm open to suggestions.

Triggered myself again.

Saw WW at DS7's baseball game. Reminded her, in a nice way, that she said she would get back to me. She said she hadn't decided what to do. She had talked to her lawyer, who (predictably) recommended that she go ahead with the hearing and get everything and Then we could work out a deal. Or that her lawyer could try to get an extension. I told her that I had talked with mine and asked him to get a continuance, so he will be talking with her lawyer. I said that I'm not trying hurt you, just want something that's fair. She said that the same goes for her. I ended with "None of this is my lawyer's doing. I choose marriage. You're the one who wants the divorce." It took her a sec to get the point, then she nodded and said yes.

So now I'm analyzing and projecting and assuming. It certainly feels like I'm dead to her--that she wouldn't come back even without OM. I didn't get any sense that a divorce is not what she wants, and I may have strengthened her resolve.

And I'm also thinking ahead. What she should probably do is what her lawyer recommends--go to court and get everything she can. The only reason not to is that it will make me extraordinarily pissed off, but what does she care about that? She can "negotiate" with me afterward and pretty much decide what I should pay. Gee, thanks. Let's see--where did I leave that plan FU?

This is, of course, what Jennifer cautioned me about when I mentioned negotiating with WW. Getting my hopes up when I'm dealing with a WS. And so, the self-awaress checklist--why does this suck? Because it's one more thing I have no control over, and it felt for a minute like I did. Because I got up close and personal with the WS and got exposed to the Fog (but what if it isn't Fog and she has good reasons for not wanting to be with me?). And maybe it's one more thing that I'm right about, but that doesn't get me anything (anger comes from seeing the difference between the way things ought to be and the way that they are).

I'm angry at myself for adding the bit at the end. This doesn't appear to have been the kind of opportunity I was hoping for. Like Chris said earlier, I took a chance. It could still work out.

I think I will get over this trigger quickly. Maybe I will even eat something tonight.

Sigh.

((((((((sdg))))))))))

yes, you put yourself out there. but see how clearly you are seeing everything??? you DO have control of YOURSELF!!! and you knew exactly what you were getting into...knew that you would get some foggy behavior....knew what it was like to interact with WW. thats why you will get over this trigger quickly...because you accept that there are things out of your control and you are letting those things go. so yes...it does suck. but YOU don't!!! you are real...centered...focused. making hard real decisions, doing the best for your family. WW is none of those things. just because she thinks(and you do too) that she can name her price and win.....doesn't make it so. it aint over until the fat lady sings....

do you have a great lawyer? one who believes in your cause? time to stop playing nice me thinks!!!

I agree with Fighting, no more Mr. Nice Guy. You tell your lawyer what you want. He works for you, not for your wife. You've, again, gotten an answer, albeit a muddled, unsure answer, you got an answer. Your WW did not stand in front of you and say that her lawyer was going for this and that and she wanted a D. YOU led the conversation. YOU asked the questions and stated that you wanted M and she wanted a D. AFter her 'second' pause, she THEN nodded and said yes. Right. Still doesn't sound like someone PUSHING anything.

Anyway, regardless of what you THINK your WW wants, take care of what you need, 'kay?

About the trigger, I never see my WH, never hear his voice, only emails, so I know it must be incredibly difficult to attempt these conversations regarding D with your wife. Please, from now on, let the lawyer do your talking, tell him what you want to say, and let him be your well paid mouth piece. You need to be healthy, you need to eat, and sleep and take care of those wonderful children. This method is not working. Remember, when she is around, the WAYWARD is wallpaper.

Thanks, guys. I think there was some value in talking to her, but you're right that I shouldn't keep doing it. I feel terrible. Anxious about the hearing. Hurt over what felt like rejection again yesterday. Angry over the lack of control. Dumb for putting myself out there again. And then a great big blanket of depression across the top. Nauseous. Which all leads to feeling like a sap for wanting to still be in this marriage anyway. Man, I feel lousy.

This sucks. I don't want to hurt like this.

Clear the conning tower and close the hatches SD. Dive, Dive, Dive. Run silent, run deep.

The emotions are going to destroy you.


Back to the dark.

Yeah, I underestimated how bad it would be. I'm a little better. I leave on vacation on Thursday morning to be with my best friends far away from here, and that's probably the best thing I could possibly do. It means I really only have to get through the next 40 hours or so. I can do that.

If there's anyone listening who can give me (and believes it) the "It's still early in your Plan B, you're doing okay, and there's still reason to hope" pep talk, I could use it.

sdguy, It is WAAAAAAY early in Plan B. You need this vacation. Also, you are no sap, you are one brave man. You are standing tall for your kids, but listen to me when I say this, YOU MUST TAKE CARE OF YOU. Don't be a [email]d@mn[/email] martyr. Start eating, start living, stop looking to make things easy for your WW, STOP IT. Let the chips fall.

You are only responsible for your happiness, and your childrens welfare. You are amazing. Again, I NEVER SEE my WH, never talk, no voices, no eye contact, NOTHING, NADA. Just get out of bed, breath in and out, and get through the next two days. Give yourself a break.

Stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself that you are a good man, and then say something nice about you, THEN SMILE. FAKE IT! Every time you pass a mirror, smile into it. Sometimes, it makes me giggle.

I don't see the ACTIONS of a person just itching for D here, so buck up, quietly fan the flame and get on with each day. You are going to be alright.

SD,

I haven't followed your thread a whole lot, but I can identify with your recent posts. We're in about the same place and I know your feelings. I'm right there with you.

Go see your boys and tell lies and fart and drink beer. You'll feel a whole lot better.

At least that works for me.

Just sending some support.

Listen to the Dark Princess of Patience SD. She has it down. Don't help your WW understand her own initiated divorce proceedings. Let the TV and Gilligan handle that.

Where are you vacating to? I think a break from all of this is perfect.

SL, I have been practicing smiling in the mirror too. It sounds stupid but it really works.