(((sdguy))),

I can relate so much to what you are saying. I also feel I fell off the plan B wagon and actually had some hope after our court date was postponed. Useless hope. I feel my depression getting worse.

My IC has also told me that I don't know what real love is like because I haven't had that for so long. That when I do I'm going to wonder why I hung on so long. I tell her I'm hoping to have that real love with my H again. If my real H ever comes back again.

BR,
I'm going to go back and try to look for your book recommendation maybe it will help me also.
Also can relate to the ranting at God about why me. Why does WH get to be happy like he tells my girls he is. And why do we have to suffer the pain of his actions,

sdguy sorrry for the little threadjack.

Still

Sdguy-

It is something to think about... what your next R will be like. Even with yourself.

As I have gone along, I realized a lot of things about myself that needed fixing, and I also realize how unhappy I was in my M for the past couple of years.

I also realize that I was not wrong for being unhappy, MY needs were not being met at ALL. And that is just not right for a R. It is a two way street.

Fortunately, I know several happily married couples that do things right- would never cheat, communicate well, show care for their spouses. I could go on. My point is that I had come to a point where I had people, and myself, telling me that I should just accept my R with my H, and stop being unhappy... but I knew deep down that I should NOT accept his complete indifference to me or any of my needs. And it rallies me to see good, strong, happy marriages out there. I did NOT have to accept a broken M.

So I am still working on myself, and just beginning to think about what I would like my next R to be like.

I think that it will be good for you to go even darker like you said, and, I don't know, pretend that there is NO WAY at all that you can get a hold of her, that she does not exist anymore. Once you do that, you will have to live for YOU, your kids, YOUR priorities in life. And maybe you can stop thinking about HER.

I wish you well on your plan!

Hey SD,

haven't been around much this week, but have followed as best I can.

You said something that struck a chord with me - that you are used to being in control. Same with me. I'm used to having control in most situations and getting what I want. People like us are also very competitive - we don't like, no, we HATE, to lose. I wonder if sometimes I won't let this go because of that. Finding MB has made me into a soldier of sorts - strategizing, honing my battle plan etc. Which is good, because the old me would have left by now and filed for a D.

Last night I decided that I win either way. If he comes back, I've won my H back. If he doesn't, then the OP still hasn't won. What she is getting is a R founded on lies and deceipt with a person who abandoned a M of 34 years. Do I want someone like that? Crazy thinking? I don't know.

Just trying to get through this....

Thanks, BR, for giving me stuff to think about.

What I am trying to do now is Let Go without Being Done. If anyone out there has advice on that concept and is willing to share it with a thick-headed guy (you may have already told me before), I would like to hear it (again).

KG, what you say resonantes with me. If the SCQ and OM wind up together, then they deserve each other and all the pain that they have wrought. They will have to live with what they have done.


So I agree with what you've said here (the OP CAN'T win) but wonder whether it's helpful to think about it in those terms. If you view it as a competition with either WH or OP, it may start to feel like something you can control, and you can't. (How am I doing so far?)

Talking with my IC recently, I commented that giving up FEELS like losing or failing, even if I know it isn't. She seemed surprised by this, and I think it came from her perspective that moving on will be a win for me--I will be happier and likely better off without the SCQ.

SD,

I'm not sure how to let go without being done either. Maybe the way to do this is to put it in God's hands I guess.

There are days that I think I just can't do this anymore, and I'm sure that you have to be thinking the same thing. You've been at it a lot longer than I have. Jennifer says men have more staying power than women though.

And they say that recovery is even harder....

SDguy ~ Letting Go is not quitting.

Letting Go is simply stepping the heck out of God's way and Letting God handle the outcome.

Giving up just means that you've decided that YOU can't fix it so nobody can...

I think I don't know how to do one without the other. There was another email on Friday that didn't even have that much triggering content, but I was triggered, and I'm to the point that every trigger invites plan FU.

I don't know that WW can ever be someone I want to be with. I'm beginning to think that once I'm out of this and move on I'm going to find out what I've been missing--that WW never did a good job of meeting my needs. Or that's what I'm afraid of. Especially since I'm beginning to realize that W was a safe choice--that even if it was unconscious I settled for a safe option in a mate and *still* got burned (Kind of like you playing by the rules, BR. And yes, I think it makes me angry).

I have to take the kids over to the SCQ in a few minutes. As I was getting DD4 ready, she had a crying fit that she didn't like Mommy living somewhere else, that she wanted Mommy to come home, that Mommies weren't supposed to leave their families. And lots of whys. I told her she would have to ask Mommy, that I didn't know why, that I wished she would come home but that I didn't think that she was going to.

I don't know what to do. I can't keep living like this.

I'm going to walk on the beach.

Saying you can't do one without the other simply means that you are not willing to let God take a stab at it. If you can't have it your way you are just gonna take your ball and go home, huh?

I get that it's hard to trust someone that you are angry with. Of course you can't let go.

Have you started journaling again? You must must must deal with your anger in order to move forward in ANY direction.

The anger is the issue you have to address right now.

Plan FU will not wake her up...and while you might get a temporary fix - it won't fix anything, including your wounded soul.

Plan FU is a sad, childish temper tantrum that makes you less.

SD,

True, I did an FU, and it did turn things a little but it was childish. I'm not sure if my WH is now responding to that or the fact that I went immediately to B. I wish that I would just have gone to B and not blown up like I did. That wasn't my personality, but I'm one who holds things in to the breaking point, then blow. It's only once every 5-10 years, but when it happens I can't control it.

You've been at this so long, that no one could blame you if you did blow, but no matter what happens I think that you will always look back and be thankful that you handled it with dignity. How's that for being mature???

I'm not going to Plan FU. It's tempting, because I have so many angry, true things to tell her, but I know that it won't really solve anything, and I would feel worse about it later. High road.


I don't feel that it has to be my way. I am willing to get out of the way, but I'm not sure what that means. I don't know how to think about it or what to do. Do I keep up the Plan B? Do I accept divorce? Do I accept the fact that the SCQ and the POS OM are together? Do I start living my life again? Can I start meeting other people? Do I hope? I honestly don't know, and I'm so tired and starved.

Here's where I am after my walk:

I accept that I am going to be divorced.

In the most recent email, the SCQ wants to know why I haven't started refinancing the house (presumably she wants her share of the equity because we are going to be divorced). Stalling isn't going to work. With the temporary support agreement, it was advantageous to work directly with her rather than let the lawyers handle it, and final dispensation of assets will probably be the same. She has indicated that we don't need to involve the lawyers, so I think I will go ahead and get it over with. Not very plan B.

I do have lots of anger, but I think that I can recognize the sadness underneath it and realize the rest of it as pity for the SCQ. I think I could even start being cordial with her if I chose, but I think that I will keep my distance as much as possible. Why risk losing it and subjecting myself to pain if I don't have to?

I recognize that just because we get divorced doesn't mean it's over for us. The two kids give us every reason to try to make it work, and some day she may figure that out. I intend to leave that possibility open, but I don't think I can sit around on my hands hoping anymore.

As always, I value input and guidance.

Sadly, I have neither input or guidance.

But I hear you. Every word. We seem to be at a similar place, so if it's any comfort to know that you are not alone, I guess I can offer you that.

I went to the beach yesterday as well....I was just compelled to go, even after being sick, I just needed to be there, by the endless water and endless sky and sand streching forever. I'm glad that for you, it brought some clarity.

((((sdguy))))

sdguy ~ acceptance and letting go do not require you to DO anything but change your thinking.

Did you get the book yet?

We aren't looking at outcomes...we are just looking at what IS today.

There is just nothing for you to DO right now. Be still.

Instead of accept that you are going to get a divorce (this is your fear talking), which we just don't know yet because it hasn't happened....

How about working on acceptance of God's will?

To do that however, you have to work on your anger.

Thats HOW you do this.

Don't do this. This should be spelled out in the required final separation agreement that will be submitted to the court. Things could change right up to the last day. Ask for 60 days after the divorce is final to get the refinance done. She is not entitled to any of the equity prior to the final divorce decree.

I refused to agree to any distribution or split of of the cash and investment assets until the divorce was final. I had every account named and spelled out on the agreement so there was no mistake how these would split.

Remember SD, Wayzilla nearly came apart the last week before the final. It could really happen.

Guy,

For all things legal, including refinancing for the 'buyout', let the lawyers handle it. I wouldn't even give her an answer on this, except to say that your lawyer handles those details.

Guy, I don't know how to describe the letting go, but it can happen without giving in. I don't know if there is some difference between men and women in this. I was able to let go, and still keep that ember lit. I still have to work on detachment, and letting go.

This was my response:

"What is it that you would like to have happen in terms
of refinancing? Are you talking about a final
dispensation of assets? How do you think that should work?"

And this is what she sent this morning:

"Yes this is moving towards final dispensation of assets. I need to be removed from the mortgage and the title. The only way I know to do that is to refinance. One thing that needs to be done is to have the house appraised so you know how much to refinance for in order to buy me out. I don't know if one can hire someone to appraise the house or if you have to do that as part of getting a loan. Maybe your lawyer can give you some advise on how to move this forward. As for other assets isn't there just retirement funds (IRAs and work accounts) and investment accounts (mutual fund things), right?"

This sounds more like she wants to be divorced rather than she wants the money. So you guys think I should send the "I do marriage, my lawyer does divorce" message?


I had to reorder the book, so I don't have it yet.

I've been trying to figure out how to think about this for months. What is it that I need to accept? That this happened for a reason? That I can't change it? That there is nothing that I can DO?

Things can happen between now and the final decree. Good things or bad things. Someone could get hit by a bus (hopefully POSOM). Hmmmm Posum, that’s pretty good! Someone could lose their job. Someone could realize that Posum is a Posom!
On and on.

Talk to your attorney. He may want to do an appraisal prior to the final settlement with an appraiser who specializes in court and divorce work and set the value on the settlement. They tend to be very thorough and fair. If you go that way get a list of lenders that work with him/her so it does not have to be repeated when you do the refinance. The settlement will specify how much time you have to get the refinance done. 60 days is a typical number. Goofy things can happen with the title company during the refinance and closing so get an appropriate time frame.

Remember since it is a buyout your new mortgage loan is likely to go up significantly along with your house payment. These should be considerations for any maintenance she requests.

Her attorney will have to prepare a Quitclaim deed for her for the title company so she can be removed from the title. If it was not about money that is all she would have to do to to be free of the house. It's about the money.

She can wait.

Let you attorney handle the divorce.

I, personally, think it's time for that message. Let the lawyers deal with this. Do you really want this to be a nice experience for her? Should it be? I'm seriously asking.

If you are tired of her [censored], leave it for your lawyer to sift through; you could be doing yourself a disservice by not letting those with the know how take care of this settlement. That's what you pay them for. Do not settle on divorce BEFORE the divorce.

I would forward the email, or paraphrase the email, to your lawyer and ask him/her to take care of this. Let the lawyer know what YOU want to do, and what you want to avoid doing. It is their job.

These emails, no matter how benign you think they are, are insidious, will get under your skin and fester. Do not talk settlement, have her contact your lawyer. Have SIL reply, telling SCQ to talk to your lawyer.

The answer is no, of course. In a different email, she gave me her checking account number so that I can transfer the support directly to her account, and then we can close the joint account. My inclination is to not do this, because I want her to have to come and get the money. Let it be a reminder that this money does not magically appear. I will ultimately lose this fight, but I guess I could accomplish much the same thing by sending paper checks.

But I'm right on the fence here. A part of me says that she should have to do all of the dirty work and make her experience divorce as the ugly thing that it is. Another part says that I should just get it over with and that working out our own agreement prior to legalizing it will save me tens of thousands of dollars. I'm all over the place.

I'll talk to my lawyer. Even if I talk settlement directly with her, I'll do it with my lawyer's advice.


Oh, I get that. I don't think they're benign at all--I know exactly how they affect me. It's why getting the whole thing over with is tempting. Her intent seems to be controlling, too. The Sunday kid transfers are supposed to be at noon (not that she ever gets them to my place by noon), but she sent me this text yesterday morning:

"Please drop them off at 12:15. Thanks."

So she got them at 12:40. When I told the kids that the SCQ had asked for a later drop off, DS7 said "she's probably out shopping." Instead of saying, "She's probably up in Oceanside pretending to be mommy to POSOM's kids" I said "yeah, maybe that's it." DS7 looked at me and said "that's what you hope, anyway." My kids are so sharp. And kind and wonderful. They deserve so much better than her.

Sigh. Another protein shake lunch day.

sdguy ~ you are simply accepting WHAT IS.

You should accept yourself, as you are.

You should accept other people, as they are.

You should accept the nature of your relationship with those people, as those are.

What Is = Reality

You are still arguing with What You Think Should Be instead of What Is.

Resistance to What Is in favor of What You Think Should Be results in negativity - frustration, anger, fear, resentment - depression.

Acceptance of What Is results in positivity - peace, contentment, freedom, and clarity.

God exists in Today, not in the guilt and anger of the Past, nor in the fear of the Future.

When you step into Today, you step into the presence of God.

With God, all things are possible. More importantly, the best things for you are possible.

I accept that the SCQ does not want to be with me. I accept that the things she has done were not to hurt me. I accept that she is doing what she thinks is best. I accept that she is trying to be a good mother for our children. I accept that when the children are with her (and the POSUM), they are probably not receiving any permanent damage.

I accept that I am probably better off without the SCQ.

I accept that I am a blessed individual. I have two wonderful children, a very loving and supportive family, friends and co-workers and neighbors and on-line supporters who care about me. I have a great job, I live in a great place, and I am healthy (but for depression, which is a drag).

I accept that I have a lot to give and that whatever woman is with me next will be lucky. I accept that right now the SCQ does not deserve to be that woman and that maybe she never will. I accept that maybe she never did, but I also accept that that is in the past and can't be changed. I accept that she is the mother of my children, and I wouldn't undo them for anything in the world.

I accept that, even though I wish some things were different, I cannot control them.

I accept that if I could hold onto these thoughts and feelings all the time (and breathe), maybe my shoulders would stop trying to merge with my ears.