No, he's in IT at an academic institution. They don't even have a policy on adultery. The SCQ was supervising him when it became known at work, but all they did was reorganize. Of course, I didn't find out until months later. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

((Guy smiley)))

Don't know what to say other than you have come so far. You're in my prayers.

Still

I ordered the book. Thanks again for the recommendation. I want to explore this a bit more, because I agree that it's very significant.

I think I'm angry and depressed because it feels like I am failing. Or losing (even though there are no winners). My intellect side can talk all day about how this isn't my fault and how I've done everything I can to prevent divorce (except for the flaws in my Plan B, but I'm only human). I know this, but it still FEELS like failure.

And I hate failure. Professionally, I have been a successful scientific problem-solver, thriving on nasty complex problems. Tenacity and persistance have served me well in this world. This sounds cocky, probably, or that I've been really lucky, but I honestly can't think of any significant problem in my career or life that I wasn't able to come up with a solution for. Granted, I think I have carefully put myself into situations where the risk of failure was low. Because I hate it.

I know that making my family whole again is not a problem I can solve, but it FEELS like it is. Or one that I should be able to. At various points during this journey, I have at least partially accepted what I can do and what I cannot--what I have control over, but I seem to be having trouble with it now. I have never had so little control over something I care about so much.

Can someone help me with this? Or help me with the difference between letting go and moving on? I think that I need to let go, but it feels synonymous with moving on to me right now, and I'm not sure how to reconcile the two.

It has been a very long time (> 2 yrs?) since I felt anything like affection or companionship, and I'm feeling particularly starved. And even if I make it to recovery (which clearly won't be any time soon), it's not like there will be a flood of emotional-need-meeting coming my way, at least not right off the bat. Is it realistic to think that I can survive that long? I wonder whether I should even try.

Oy, Guy, you really know how to pose the hard questions!

I am very similar to you, in the achievment/failure rate thing. I don't GAMBLE for a reason. The odds are stacked against me.

Letting go vs. moving on. Hmmm, Let me take a stab at describing the difference, in my opinion. Letting go is a control thing. Moving on is letting go and giving up. I don't think either is a cop out at all. If you choose to move on, you do so knowing that you have hit your limit, and know that you have done all that YOU can to break up the A, and get to recovery.

You do have some CONTROL over keeping your family intact, but it's only control over what you do, not anybody else. You are doing that, by working the Plans. You are controlling your behavior, your emotions, and learning about yourself.

Maybe letting go and moving on feel synonymous right now because you are continuing to get hurt, draining that love away, and you feel the urge to let is all go and BE HAPPY. You can be happy without moving on, but it takes time away from the source of your pain.

Guy, I did not SEE PWC at all during Plan B; we may have had some email exchange, but I never saw him. I avoided it. I didn't hear his voice, except for when DS was on the phone with him standing right next to me. No eye contact, NADA, ZIP. This could serve you well. Out of sight, out of mind.

Hey SD.

There are a lot of letting go moments in our life. When DD19 (DD16 then) first drove off in her car alone with her brand new license. When she left home for college. Some day when she walks down the aisle....these are all letting go times. I let go because I believed in her and trusted she was prepared. I had to trust the plan and believe it would work.

Maybe now you just have to trust in your plan, have faith in yourself and believe if the best outcome can happen, this is the only way. The path you are on is too painful.

Amigo, you need to withdrawal from the madness.

SDguy ~ I've bumped the Detaching with Love thread, I'd like you to really read the three Cs....

Let me know what you think.

Thanks, BR. Powerful stuff.


Okay, so I have the first one (cause) covered. I know that it's not my fault through and through. I think I'm okay at control. There are some things I still try to or wish I could control (mostly her having the OM around the kids), but even that I have to accept for the most part.

It's the Cure that's beating me up right now. I think I'm desperately afraid that she won't be able to cure herself. (to which you, or at least my IC, will respond "And?"--feel free to insert something else, though.) I have lots of thoughts that get in my way here (what ifs, yeah-buttals). Just thinking about it makes my whole body tense up.


So I'm trying to make sense out of this in terms of plan B, because it seems like I've been focusing a lot on who the SCQ "could" be. If I weren't, I would have dropped her like a hot rock. Have I been lying to myself?

This is who she is TODAY.

Today is NOT tomorrow.

And I think you need to back up to the control part.

Your wife's affair wasn't part of YOUR brilliant plan for your life....and that ticks you off in a huge way....yes?

Okay, that's what I thought the answer was, but I like talking with you.


Yeah, sort of. I wouldn't say that I have a plan for life. I don't plan much of anything if I can avoid it (for the Myers-Briggs fans in the audience, I am an INTP with maxed out P).

I think the way I would put it is that I'm not sure what it is supposed to look like, but I know that this ain't it. And yes, it ticks me off that our family is now broken, but I'm not sure that's where you were headed with this.

Wait, are we talking about me controlling the SCQ or controlling my life? Maybe that's exactly where you're headed with this.

SDguy-

Just a question... are you hung up on saving the M because you are not used to failure?

The reason I ask this? I think that that was my problem. I knew that my M was over, yet I could not believe that it WAS over... and he never tried to fix it.

Do you know what I mean?

That I had already left the M, told him to go, but my pride prevented me from filing for a D. I could NOT, could NOT believe that he did not try to win me back, or get me back at any point in time.

Since I filed for my D, I actually feel so much more at peace, and happy. Oddly enough. Now I know what is going on, where I stand, what is going on, and it actually provided me with a happiness that I have not had in a LONG, LONG time.

So.... what I am saying is this: REALLY, REALLY, examine what your motives are to continue the plan B... And if you are not sure, I would say that you should go darker into a plan B...pretend that you ARE D'd (not date, but that you are not together) and go on. Id it is a pride issue, swallow it, and move on: D her.

I fear that your using the plan b as a means to win her back. I do not think that you should think of it that way. Perhaps you should do something, so that YOU can move on. It may make you feel so much better, to be in charge of YOU again...

Do you know what I am saying?

Lets be clear.

When I say "Letting Go", I am not advocating "File for Divorce" or "Move On".

When I say "Acceptance", I do NOT mean "Agree with", "Approve", "Go along with", "Give up", or anything else along those lines.

Letting Go and Acceptance are something else entirely.

I think you are starting to get it...I am not talking about control of your wife. I am talking about your arguement with God about your life - He didn't get it right did He?

You might not have had a Life Plan laid out, step by step with goals and timelines...

But you did not get married and start a family without a goal right?

I used to believe, that if I just did all the right things, if I was a GOOD GIRL....if I married a good Catholic boy, if waited to have sex before marriage, if I had babies and stayed home with them, if I went to church every Sunday - If I followed ALL THE RULES, that God would be good, and my life would be happy.

I grew angry...frustrated...bitter...and terribly clinically depressed to the point of suicide.

I eventually got on ADs....started working a 12 step program....and then Life played a very cruel joke...

Here I was...doing all the right things...STRUGGLING to put one foot in front of the other to be a good girl...

And I found out my husband was cheating. So I kicked him out of the house....and discovered I was pregnant 2 weeks later.

Oh boy...I WAS ANGRY. BLACK HUGE DEEP ANGER.

At my husband, yes of course....but mostly...at God.

I'd been cheated at life and it was all His Fault, I'd played by the rules and He cheated.

Am I playing your song?

Yeah, I think so.

"But it's not supposed to be This Way." This is wrong. My family is broken. Look at all the other people (vacation, neighborhood) -- they're not broken. Why does my family have to be broken? I don't want it to be broken. It makes me angry and depressed.

And it hits me particularly hard because I've been lucky, blessed, charmed in that I've never had to deal with something anything close to this bad before. I would be having the same power-struggle if one of my kids had cancer, say.

Most things in life you can't control. Even the things it seems you have control over, you probably don't and probably shouldn't.

How am I doing?

Thanks for the insights, Sadmo. The question is one that I wonder about, but I'm pretty sure that the reason I continue is that the best thing for my children is to be raised by both parents in a loving relationship. And, based on what I have learned, I still believe that is possible.

That I am not used to failure makes some part of it harder to swallow. Maybe when I feel like it's not working.

Guy,

I always felt like it was all wrong, too. That's part of what kept ME going. I also learned to let go of my expectations of PWC; learning that was about control, too.

The frustrating part is that I was doing this--I had been feeling better and more like myself. More likely to joke around with people and be the playful person that I am most of the time. I think it's the last month or so that things have been so much worse.

It's so clearly depression, though. I'm not sure whether it's biochemical or situational--probably a combination. I see my shrink this afternoon and will almost certainly change meds.

Something has to change. Somethings.

SDguy ~


What way? Your way? Or God's way? Or what you think should be God's way...but really is your way?

If each of us handed God a blueprint for "The Way Things Ought To Be", do you think that 1. they would all be the same plan...and 2. do you think that all those plans would be wise?

The path to peace is to Let Go of your way, and to trust that God's way will be enough.

Stop looking at your neighbors.

You can't judge their lives from the outside. Everyone is at a different place on a different path.

I'm happily married today...but 5 years ago....I was in your shoes...

Everyone has their own path to follow and you can't compare yours to theirs.

But ok....lets just talk about YOU. God can't possibly be right - your family needs to be intact....

But remember...

God allows EVERYONE to make choices. Including your wife.

And you my dear, not God, choose to tie your life to THIS woman.

You are not a victim here.

You also choose the behaviors that led to the environment of your marriage....

You just are not a victim of God's whim...

God can and will give you the support and strength you need...but only...if you ask. God can and will fix your situation....not according to YOUR plan, which is human and flawed...but to HIS plan...which is way cooler than anything you and I could think of....but only if you get the heck out of God's way.

God doesn't bully or force His will on people. If you choose to hang really tightly onto YOUR WILL for YOUR LIFE...God will let you do that. He won't interefere.

But if you ask, and step out of the way...He will perform miracles.

Thats what I mean by letting go. Let Go of YOUR WILL, YOUR WAY, YOUR BLUEPRINT for "How it is supposed to be" and let God show you His Plan.

I can promise you, I know from experience...that as long as you insist on it being your way...you will suffer.

Let Go and Let God is a powerful antidote for what's broken in your plan.

BR, I don't think I've ever posted anything to you but I must this time. Your post above is just awesome, awesome, awesome. Wow. How'd you grow up to be so wise?

Take this one down deep in your heart SD, it's a keeper.

SdGuy-

I think that you need to look at what is best for you.... for YOU to recover, for YOU to feel better... about yourself, your future, your PRIDE.

I do not know if plan B is so good for you... you are having problems with depression you are not feeling good, you are being set off by SCQ all of the time.

I know that you want your family together. I know that you think it is best. But think of this too: what is best for the kids is for both of their parents to be happy and healthy.

I really worry that you are not doing well with all of the stress, and the fact that you are in limbo so long. Maybe it is time to break out of limbo?

Not that it makes much of a difference, but maybe I should have clarified what you quoted--that's what I think the little voice/inner child/subconscious/emotional side is whispering to me. The petulant child.

I saw my IC today. Great lady. I've started to feel bad for her watching me go through this. She tears up at most sessions, and it's clear she really cares about me. She must want to just shake me sometimes--as smart a guy as I am, to get hung up and keep beating my head against it.

Anyway, she took a different tack today and asked me to picture how it would be at one of my kids' high school graduation if things continue in the way they're headed. So I closed my eyes and thought about it and pictured myself married again and happy and cordial with the SCQ, and the kids are fine. Then I laughed, and she asked why I was laughing, and I said "Well, everything is good. . . but it's still wrong." Then I said "It's the petulant child thing--I want what I want." To which she replied "How's that working out for you?" (and then "I've always wanted to say that"). I described the conversations here on the thread and the kinds of realizations I have been having, and she used the words "learning humility." I said I couldn't remember whether I included those in my posts, but that I thought them as I composed.

So clearly something has to give. I can't keep going like I have been for the past month. I'm going to let it go. Do what I can. Take care of myself. Stop trying to control and worrying about what isn't mine. I know that if I back up four months in my thread, I will find myself saying the same things and that I made progress towards that, but somewhere I fell off the wagon. Maybe it will stick this time. The thinking that BR has prompted me to do already has me feeling better--I have noticed changes just in the last day or so. I ordered the book she recommended and am looking forward to getting it.

And, since I'm going to be feeling so much better, I'm going to continue in my Plan B, but I'm going to make it darker. I'm going to tell the SCQ that emails are being screened, and I'm going to rearrange the Sunday kid transfers so that I don't have to see or hear her. I think I will send another abbreviated PBL. Do you think email is sufficient? Shall I post it for editing before I send it?

I concede that I am both stubborn and thick-headed. What I've said I'm going to do are things that you guys have been telling me to do all along, and I really appreciate your sticking with me. Please continue to 2x4 me as necessary.

Last thought: My IC and I talked about what a next relationship might be like. A thought struck me about an hour later--I wonder whether I am afraid to find out what I have been missing all these years.

sdguy ~


You made me laugh. You think I didn't realize this? My petulant child did more than sulk like yours is.

I truely screamed and yelled out loud at God and shook a fist at the ceiling. (Sounds silly but its true). I had regular full blown temper tantrums.

HOW DARE GOD DO THIS TO ME!?

I was self-righteous and victimized...and oh so angry.

Your IC is right.

This is not about repairing your pride.

This is about humility and learning to say YES to God.

How about that "next relationship" being one with God?