January 20th is very interesting.

Jeez, now I gotta go dig the thing out from under my pillow.

It was spot-on, as usual.

Triggered. I'm going to write it up and put it away quickly. I LB'ed, too. Dammit.

Last Friday there was a message on our home answering machine from one of the SCQ's friends from college (D). The only one she had any contact with post-college, and that was sparse. She read at our wedding. D and her family are coming to San Diego and would we like to get together. I return D's call and talk with her on the phone for a while--I explain the situation, where I am and what I'm doing and give her contact info for the SCQ (the SCQ had told her nothing, of course). D asks me about getting our kids together while she's here, tells me how sorry she is, tells me to stay in touch, sounded like she disapproved of what the SCQ is doing.

Our daycare provider is currently on vacation, and my parents are watching the kids during the day. The first two days of this week were the SCQ's. On one of those days, she picked up the kids from my place and went to Seaworld with D and her family. Then on Tuesday she asked my mom if she could have the kids again this afternoon to do somethng with them again. We (mom) said sure.

She picks up the kids at around 5:30, before I am home. They're going down to D's resort hotel. No drop off time is discussed, but my mom is assuming something like 9, so she's sitting around kind of waiting for the kids to get home starting at about that time. 10 rolls around. Mom has gone to bed but offers to call to find out what's going on. At 5 til 11, I finally call, but there is no answer. There's a call to the house at 11:05 or so, and she says she'll be bringing the kids by in 10 or 15 minutes.

Knowing that DD4 will be asleep in the car, I wait near the door so that I can get her and carry her in. It's 11:25 when she rolls in. I go out to the car--she's trying to wake up DD4, but I say that I'll get her.

I say "It's kind of late." She says "What...it's only a half hour past their bed time." I honestly don't know what to make of this, so I say "It's kind of late to be bringing them home." Then she splutters at me what's the big deal/it's not like it's a school night/your parents are watching them--they can sleep in tomorrow/you or your mom could have called if you were concerned. I don't think I said anything in return.

As I'm going in, she says "You know, I was going to say thank you, but you kind of ruined it." She makes to drive away, and I walk back out to tell her that what she should be doing is apologizing for bringing the kids home so late and are you really that inconsiderate. But I didn't say those things. I heard a couple more lines of you could have called bla bla bla, kind of put up my hands in surrender, and went inside.

Sigh.

Should have made sure they would be home at a time at which I wouldn't have to see the SCQ. Should have not said anything to her. Probably shouldn't have given her the extra time tonight (but she's giving me the weekend to take the kids camping). Shouldn't have recapped for my parents how incredulous I was that she got mad at me in front of my son (apologized to him later, although I think the worst I said was that Sorry is a word that she doesn't know).

What else?

I'll let the others help you work through it, and help you learn something about yourself.

What's done is done. I don't happen to think it's the end of the world. She is just so into herself. It is incredibly frustrating to deal with someone who lacks the good sense to communicate what time she will bring the kids home. Grrrrr....

Really, the only tactical mistakes you made were not confirming a return time, (or expecting her to have a sensible one)....or expecting her to be courteous enough to call and let you know how late it would be. The kids were probably having a blast with the other kids, and SCQ was visiting with her friend....I would expect a late night. She should have anticipated this as well, and that should have been communicated.

Anyway, FWIW, I think you demonstrated a boatload of restraint. You're good. Is your tongue still attached or have you biten it off completely?

Anyway, I'll take a stab here at a couple of things from an outsiders perspective:

I wonder if part of what triggered you was the fact that she spent time with D. Did you have an expectation based on your conversation with her that D might be less eager to spend time with SCQ? (this is a big issue for me as you know)

Also, there's something there about making judgements about her parenting. Your remark to her seems as if it was interpreted as an "attack" on her as a mom...when you imply that you were REALLY just pissed that she was so incredibly rude and thoughtless not to call. So did you turn your anger into something that would hurt her more...just to hurt her?

I mean, you COULD have said, "Next time I would appreciate a phone call if you intend to bring them home after X:00." (is their bedtime really 11? or is she just that clueless?)

Instead, you provided commentary on her parenting. I guess I would encourage you to be very honest with yourself about what you chose to say and why.

Again, not to make excuses for her, but I can totally see how it turned into a late night...visiting with friends, especially when the kids are occupied with one another and having a good time. This happens, and the kids may be crabby the next day, but they are not permanently damaged (and it's convenient that she's not the one who has to deal with the crabbiness). BUT she absolutely without a doubt should have communicated that with you.

She was probably trying to press your buttons. And it worked. But not as well as she wanted, I bet, because you didn't say the stuff that was on the tip of your tongue.

Lesson learned: pin down a return time in advance. Move on.

Do you get angry because the sky is blue?

Water is wet?

Rocks are hard?

Always have this nailed down, even if it does end up being 11PM, you will be prepared. You did not have to go out and get your DD from the vehicle, you chose to. Let SCQ handle the children the way she does when they are in her care. It is disrespectful to interrupt her, or take over.

Speaking to SCQ AT ALL was a mistake in Plan B; you know this, but you were angry and lashed out at her. I stay up late with my son, now and then, during the week, to catch a movie together or to just BE together more that evening. It's not the end of the world.


Now she SHOULD have just thanked you anyway, but she justified NOT saying it because you lashed out at her.

Let it go. You wouldn't have even needed to respond to a thank you, just let her say it. Also, I know it pisses you off that this whole thing is happening, but spewing venom is not going to change the situation, not by a long shot. It will just reaffirm, in her foggy outlook, that she is RIGHT about you, about leaving. She's certainly not, but she will get reinforcement for that view.

She is in lalaland. Accept that you are digging your own hole by poor interactions, or ANY interactions with SCQ. You cannot reform her, she must choose that herself. What's done is done, and you chastising her doesn't change that. Don't act in a way that you need to apologize for later, to anybody.

Guy smiley, I know this is not easy. YOu can only control you.

Now....what are YOU going to do today? Are you getting ready for a great camping weekend?

Just as "What Is" is, this is done and over. You may have stumbled a little, but you recognized it and acknowledge it. You are going through a lot, and you are learning a lot. This time, you learned through a mistake.

Let it go. Enjoy your weekend; enjoy your kids.

Maybe you can enjoy the crickets chirping yet again; experience the boredom of Plan B, while having fun with the kiddies.

Excellent feedback! Especially this one:


I overreacted to the insensitive actions of a wayward spouse (damn that blue sky--it should be more turquoise). Getting them home that late wasn't really that big a deal, and me pointing out the lateness just made her defensive.

Sis, I was actually pretty happy for D to spend time with the SCQ. I still have an underlying hope that maybe someone can talk some sense into her, and that D might actually be a person to do it. But what bent me somewhat was suspecting that SCQ wanted the kids along so that there would be no opportunity to talk about anything serious.

Confession: what *really* bent me was after she called and said they would be home soon I couldn't remember whether she said "we'll drop the kids off," so as I stood there waiting I was wondering whether the POSOM was along so that D could meet the new man in her life, whether he was in the car, whether he would be in my driveway. This med switch is really messing me up, so I should have taken a Xanax when I realized how anxious I was. I should have let my parents receive the kids. I should have been reading January 20th.

Sis, good comments about the parenting. It was the insensitivity I was upset about--bringing them home that late without calling or sending a tm. I didn't intend to knock her parenting skills there, although I'm sure that's how she interpreted it.

Sending a note like "I overreacted last night. Next time, can you please tm if you're going to be that late?" is a stupid idea, right?

The good news is that today I actually feel pretty good. I'm looking forward to the camping trip, although it will be hot. Maybe the shoulders will loosen up.

But we've gotten used to imagining you as a guy in a cape with his shoulders up around his ears!

OH! The overreacting note is a GREAT idea, sd. SOOOO Plan B of you, and of course it will include the magic words that send the fog billowing away to be replaced by TURQUOISE sky and soft rocks and dry water.

I hope the crickets are exceedingly loud this weekend.

Sis, you crack me up.

Have a great weekend with the kids, guy s!

Dry Water! That's perfect with bourbon!

Didn't you guys see the Incredibles? Just like Edna says: NO CAPES!

I fell asleep to that exact movie last night, as everybody else did, too! That is one of my favorite parts!

Edna's great. She's worth the price of a sequel all by herself.

We're outta here!

You need to read Sept 16, on Revenge...

And Sis if you have the book, Sept 8 is for you.

I sent an email before I left:

"You were right. It wasn't that big a deal that you brought them home that late. Mom seemed to think that they were coming home at around 9, so when it was 11 and we hadn't heard anything, I got a bit bent. I was disrespectful, and I'm sorry about that. Maybe next time you could send a tm or the the like when you're going to be that late."

Here was the repsonse:

"Thank you. You knew that we were going to see D and those kinds of things sometimes go longer than one can control. Since I didn't know exactly what D had planned it was sort of hard to give you an exact time. You can always call or text me too if you need updates."

The apology was for me. It was eye-opening to look back and see how disrespectful I was, and I felt bad about it. But it was a dumb Plan B thing to do because I can't help but notice that nowhere in this message or the other night did she accept any responsibility herself. If anything, her response tells me why I was wrong. This is, I think, why BR asks me if I get angry because the sky is blue. Expecting a WS to accept responsibility or not be insensitive is just silly. I say "I wasn't expecting anything from her in terms of a response," but I think I was hoping there might be some kind of apology.

So long as I didn't expect it to change anything, I don't think it was REALLY dumb. Or even much of a deal, but let fall the 2x4s if there are any out there.

BR, why the one on revenge (not that I didn't like it)? Something you see in my future? Something you think I've been doing? I don't think I've acted on any of these feelings, but I have certainly felt them. And I try to acknowledge them, and try to examine them and put them away. I feel like I have forgiven the SCQ for the affair (as much as is possible at this point). What I'm angry about now is what her behavior is doing and will do to our children. It's ongoing. How do you forgive stuff that hasn't been done yet? Is this something I have to accept? Or adjust my expectations?

Good camping trip. I'll post some details tomorrow.

I have a rather unique perspective on forgiveness.

I don't think you have to forgive her for ANYTHING unless she specificially comes to you and acknowledges responsibility and ownership of the those things. To do otherwise is to judge.

Rather than forgiveness, I call it releasing a grudge, letting go of anger...adjusting expectations...

Go back and read your posts describing what you felt and were thinking.

so many judgements and assumptions about what is going on in her head...and you desperately wanting to force her to see it your way...

We can allow ourselves to feel anger. -- You are angry as heck - thats OK.

It is helpful to go one step deeper and let ourselves feel the other feelings - the hurt, the pain, the anguish. -- In my experience, my anger, my stuffed, repressed anger...covered up tremendous hurt and pain. I had to deal with the anger before I could feel the other things.

The problem is you can't repress one emotion and feel the others...as long as you are stuffing the anger...you are stuffing everything..

But our goal is release the feelings, and be finished with them.

You have to feel the emotion - move through the emotion - to let it go.

You can't force and control the emotions to be what you want them to be.

We can hold the other person accountable. We can hold the other person responsible. But it is not our responsibility to be judge and jury.

This is what you were doing, steaming and fuming by the front door, waiting for your wife.

Actively seeking revenge will not help us. It will block us and hold us back.

Breaking Plan B to set her straight....this is what you were doing. It hurts you, and enables her.

July 18th is a good one for you today!

NB: Please forgive all the bloody typos. I can't see them all, due to brain damage from a stroke I had a few years back. I find myself reading a post 3 days later, horrified at how many words I didn't see misspelled!

I forgive you, BUT I will adjust my expectations based on what you have told me.

very funny. smarty pants.