No, the mediation is on the 28th. Yesterday was the session with Jennifer. I didn't do anything until after I'd talked to her.

Let's see. Jennifer agreed that avoiding a FTF was probably a good idea, especially since I think we can probably reach an agreement without it.

She was somewhat encouraged about the OM cake-eating but was but was confident that the SCQ would be able to rationalize it somehow (on the basis of their TRUE connection). So, there's no point in trying to make sure the SCQ finds out about it (don't lunge at the gerbil). Pretty much all the things I knew were bad ideas but mentioned anyway she confirmed were bad ideas, only she was much nicer about it than BR is.

She recommended that I send the SCQ another letter professing that the door is still open. Not a usual tactic, but there's nothing to lose at this point, plus it's hard to see how it could hurt (The only thing it could hurt is my pride, but I don't have a whole lot of use for that.) She suggested some lines, but they're in my notes, and I'm getting sleepy. If anyone is interested, I'll post the text before I send it off to the SCQ.

We talked some about how Plan B is supposed to work and personal recovery vs marital recovery, but since I'm not convinced my ideas are more than three-quarters-baked (talking to BR will do this to you), I think I'll keep them to myself for the moment.

She wants me to keep going. We're waiting for the affair to end, which it almost certainly will. POSOM and the SCQ won't wind up married.

So this morning I responded positively to the SCQ's email about negotiation. Said we could negotiate the parenting plan. That since I don't want a divorce, I hadn't made any kind of financial proposal and had been waiting for her to do so.

She responded fairly quickly with a reasonable breakdown. The list included Christmas ornaments and copies of videos/photos, however, which was triggering for me. It's making it hard for me to think about writing any kind of love-letter to the SCQ right now, but I'll manage somehow.

Thanks again for checking in.

Man, talk about draining. Some email back-and-forth about the parenting plan:


The last came in about an hour ago, so I am triggered. This is what I get for negotiating directly with her. So many possible responses.

"I think it's clear to everyone, including your children, who is only thinking about themself."

or

"I just asked DS8, and he likes the schedule the way it is. How is that me thinking about myself?"

So sick of this. Plan FU calling to me.

Sigh. I'll put the kids to bed and soldier on.

Keep your head up man.

If you are anxious, triggered, in doubt, or unsure.. pray.. and then wait for an answer.

You're understandibly triggered.. but it looks like SCQ is getting her 'final word' in the same way that the Ice Queen was about a month ago.. she's 'aggressively' pushing off by punting the blame for how uncomfortable this situation is off on you. You -know- you aren't being the unreasonable one here. You -know- you are doing what you feel is in the best interest of your children (and you're absolutely right IMO).

You're being a good dad, and honestly in attempting to engage her in a respectful way like this you are -showing- that you are trying to be a good husband. There's a difference between being a good husband and father, and being a doormat to give in to whatever SCQ wants.

Examine your responses.. are they emotional responses or are they logical ones.. what kind of result do you really think either of those will net you? Plan FU is not a 'friend of good conversation' or part of the 'rules for successful negotiation'.

Don't know what Jennifer has said to you about attmpting to 'negotiate' with WS.. but she told me to use words like 'I'm not enthusiastic about that.. I hear you saying.. how would you feel about.. I'd love it if..' etc..

Honestly I've found already that using those sorts of things even in email negotiations with WW has proven somewhat successful.

((((sd))))

I'm really sorry that you are triggered.

Back away. Go dark. Please.

You threw this out there. I suspect you knew she wouldn't agree...since she never has. So no surprises. But you gave it a shot; you probably felt that's what you needed to do.

I remember you saying previously that you'd like to avoid mediation because it gets so expensive. This isn't working, either. Every interaction is hurting you. Banging your head against a brick wall results in injury.

IMO, at this point, it's worth your peace of mind to have it mediated. Let this issue get settled, and then go deep dark. Get your intermediary in place now, so that as soon as it's done, you don't ever have to deal with SCQ again.

It is conceivable that you won't get your preference through mediation, either, but I imagine that you will have some peace in knowing that you did all you could. That's enough. That's all you have control over.

Once this is done and settled, and you are TRULY dark, REALLY TRULY dark, then you will regain your footing. It's too slippery, this quasi-Plan B; too fraught with danger.

Get your distance and keep your distance.

Think of it this way: SCQ is like dry ice--cold and dangerous. If you touch her, you will burn. If you get too close, you might get frostbite. The area just around her is frozen and brittle. The ground is slick with ice. If you stay close for too long, you might get hypothermia.

She's dangerous, sd. Get away.

You can't thaw her out. She made herself this way, and she's keeping herself this way.

Get away, so that you can recover from the damage that she's already inflicted. You have frostbitten fingers and toes. You are in pain from the exposure.

Get away from the source of pain and injury. Protect yourself.

That is the very first step. All the rest of it...the letting go, the acceptance, the healing...all that can be worked on in time...but not when you are stuck in this dangerous place.

Do not try to rationalize that you are doing this to save your marriage. The "purpose" of Plan B is not relevant at this time. Plan B is DARK. You are NOT dark. Thus you are not in Plan B. So whatever its purpose does not matter.

So spend this week getting things in order...find an intermediary. Make sure your attorney knows where you stand. Re-do a Plan B letter if that's advised by Jennifer or others. Gather your resources. Prepare yourself for the mediation with your best arguments, and go in there and fight for your family in the ONLY way you can.

The minute you walk out the door after the mediation, you disappear.

IT WILL STILL HURT!! Recovering from severe frostbite or a third-degree burn is painful, even when the source of the injury is no longer an immediate threat.

Even if SCQ came running back TODAY, heart in hand, repentant...YOU would still need to heal from those wounds. Either way, YOU need to heal from those wounds. She can't fix them. She might be able to put salve on them...but they will still be there, and still need to mend.

Standing there before her, exposed, asking her--or expecting her--to put salve on the wounds that she caused...is just causing you more damage.

I'm as much talking to myself as I am talking to you about this. Look, I have been dark for 10 months. I am STILL healing my wounds. This is SLOW and painful. I understand your impatience...SO MUCH. You want it to END. I want it to END. I want to feel nothing for WH.

But I do. I still have feelings for him. And they hurt. I hurt.

Trying to thaw her out, or FUing...none of that will hasten YOUR healing. The only thing that you can do RIGHT NOW to hasten your healing is to get away from the source of injury. Even once you do that, there is still the long SLOW painful process of healing.

Please think about it. I know I rambled, and I'm not articulating this very well...I just don't want to see you continuing to get hurt.

I think your correspondence with SCQ even triggered me! I have to agree with Sis on this, that it may be time to really sink into the darkness. No one can be sure, but this back and forth could be enabling this A. Even if it's not, it's hurting you, and that is just not good for YOU.

Let the lawyers handle these correspondences, so that they are on RECORD. Fight for you kids, thru your lawyer. There is no reason to be speaking to SCQ. She SOUNDS soooo much like PWC did. HE wanted to act as if I was being unreasonable by trying to protect our son from him and his shoddy decisions (not that I put it that way to him).

You pay Jennifer, so listen to her; you pay the lawyers, so let them do this bidding, with YOUR interests at heart. SCQ is self serving, she gives not one sh!te about anything but herself, even to include the children.

(((guy smiley)))

Thanks, my friends. I'm better this morning. Posting it out helps.

James, those are good tips on negotiating. Jennifer did touch on that concept, but your reinforcement is a good one. I haven't been doing that very well.

Sis, I hear what you are saying, and I really appreciate your concern for me. I know the way is fraught with peril. If it's any consolation, I'm following Jennifer's advice to the letter. The FTF mediation is court-mandated. I wanted to get out of it if possible. FTF is probably going to be way more triggering than the emails, so it was worth a shot.

I didn't include anything about financial negotiating, but those started off well, so it is probably worth it from that standpoint alone.

It's draining, but I'm doing better than I sound. I had a really good day on Saturday. It was by-myself time, and I made the most of it. I'm hoping for more of the same this afternoon.


Interesting thought, SL. My being "difficult" about weekends is something for them to fret about (I heard about it from OMW, who heard it from her MIL). He has full weekends with his kids, so I'm sure he's pressuring her to get the same. I expect that's what is driving this whole thing. I have examined my motivations, and I really believe that I'm not being driven by "thwarting" her.

I'm still doing what I think is right and best for my children, which includes continuing my Plan B, even if it does hurt me some of the time. My life was charmed up until all of this nightmare started. If this is what God wants from me now, then this is what I'll do. I have learned many lessons, even if there was frequent kicking and screaming beforehand.

You guys will like the email I got from her the other day. We went a long time without any communication, but I guess since the negotiations have opened up, she feels like she can/should communicate more stuff to me. Get this:


How about this for a reply (No, I won't send it):

DS8 asked me to talk with you about having your adultery partner's daughters sleep in his bedroom. He says he doesn't like having them there. Obviously he thinks it is an issue. Are you trying to get him used to adultery by forcing him to participate? If so, why?

Okay, Sis. I take your point. This stuff all hurts. I have to walk the high wire (or is the hot coals walk) a bit more and can then go dark again. If it's bad enough, I'll go back to the intermediary (the comment about me being selfish was poisonous; other than that it hasn't been deliberately hurtful). I chatted with Jennifer about my not having an intermediary, by the way, and she really didn't seem concerned.

So, after I posted last night and calmed down a bit, I was able to put together the "This isn't what I want, it doesn't have to be this way, if you have even a thought about stopping your relationship with POSOM, I promise not to hold the past against you, I want to build a new life with you, it's not too late" card and sent it with the kids this morning.

In a while, I will send a "I'm sorry you think I'm being selfish" email and try to include some more compromise words.

In the mean time, I'm going to do some woodworking and other stuff for me.

I know Jennifer's got your back, and that's why I mentioned it. If possible and it doesn't hurt your case in court, going darker could help YOU, that's all.

The email about the chocolate sauce is killer. Isn't THAT part of the reason she is called Sippy Cup Queen in the first place. First it was sterlity, now it's consistency with chocolate sauce. What's next? The brand of underwear?

Dagnabit! I was doing great at work and you give me this.


You know I will have to take a shot at a reply for this one!

I was counting on you, amigo.

I can be patient, though.

...SL, tapping her fingers, waiting for Chrisner to respond...

No, no. Don't rush the man. Let it percolate.

Besides, I need my head to clear a little bit so that I can play, too.

I hear you, guy. I'll be patient, especially because I want for you to have more time to let the trigger pass a bit more, too.

Here’s my first cut. A little rough but it may give us something to work with.



To Her Most Regal Highness, The Royal Queen of Sippy Cups;

I apologize for not informing you earlier regarding my ongoing experimentation and analysis of the various aspects and effects of chocolate milk on sub-adolescent children.

As you know, nutritionists have long criticized chocolate milk for its high sugar content and how the oxalic acid supplied by chocolate reacts with the calcium in the milk producing calcium oxalate, thus preventing the calcium from being absorbed in the intestine.

Being a concerned parent I thought it prudent to compare and contrast the various manufactures of chocolate milk in regards to their sugar content and filler ingredients and to calcium absorption. Of particular note is the use of carrageenins (a family of linear sulphated polysaccharides extracted from red seaweeds) in all of these products.

Currently I have focused my research on the chocolate milk products of Hershey Corp (DS8’s current favorite for flavor and texture) and Carnation. By the way if DS8 mentions the projectile vomiting incident and the Carnation product, I assure you that it was not any flaw in the Carnation mix as it probably had more to do with the total volume consumed.

Although I have made significant progress in my tests and analysis gathering I am certain that this will be a fairly long term study. I have not yet begun to research the North American products of Beatrice Foods Canada Ltd, Borden, Dairyland Canada, Island Farms, Maola, Nesquick, Oak Farms, Archer Farms, Ovaltine (that’s the one from that funny Christmas Story movie) Puity Dairy Ltd., Reid’s Dairy and Lucerne.

After reviewing the above, I can expand my research to include European and international manufacturers such as Milo, Vindija, Bravo, Chocomel, Friesland Foods, Kemps, MacArthur Dairy, Meadow Fresh of New Zealand and Anchor Swiss Maid.

In all I expect the tests to remain ongoing until DS8 is approximately DS26 (maybe early DS27). Perhaps less once I start to involve DD4 into the research. In addition, some time may be cut from the experiments with the inclusion of the 476 lab rats I have on order from Jax Mice and Services. Your half of the bill from Jax is in the mail.

By the way, I think you should note the progress of manufacturers using the same carrageenans in chocolate milk as in the production of sexual lubricants and microbicides. As you probably know, there are indications that a carrageenan-based gel may offer some protection against HSV-2 transmission by binding to the receptors on the herpes virus thus preventing the virus from binding to cells. Researchers have shown that a carrageenan-based gel effectively prevented HSV-2 infection at a rate of 85% in a mouse model. A clinical trial by Population Council examining whether a carrageenan-based product known as Carraguard is effective as a topical microbicide for blocking HIV infection in women was completed in March 2007. Results are expected in early 2008.
Just a heads up for you and POSUM.


Once again, thanks for your ongoing concern for the children, their welfare and safety.

Yours in safe parenting,

SDguy

PS: The above mentioned studies and their possible connection with the recent 2-for-1 coupons offered by Carnation for their product is purely coincidental.

That was awe-inspiring. One question - was Bosco left out intentionally or is it somehow included under another parent company that was listed?

BAAAAAhahahahaha...now that THERE is funny stuff. OMG...ROTFLMAO, Chrisner!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't forget the Organic milks or the SOY varieties.

Also, you may want to consider using a research model that employs NUDE mice, instead of your garden variety, since they will not have an immunological response to the Alzet pump used to deliver the milk dosing...

Just a suggestion.

Good points SL.

We do need to add a mention of the cost of the 476 ALZET® Osmotic Pumps required.

But we need to go with Alzet as they require no external connections or researcher intervention during the entire delivery period. Their unique design helps researchers save critical time by eliminating the need for frequent animal handling and repetitive injection schedules. These dependable drug delivery systems have proven invaluable in predictably sustaining compounds at therapeutic levels, avoiding potentially toxic or misleading side effects and ensuring accurate research results. An assortment of sizes, flow rates and durations is available to meet a variety of research needs. A single ALZET pump provides up to 6 weeks of continuous infusion. (She may need to hear that if she baulks at the cost.)

However, we do need to be careful not to overload SCQ with too much extraneous data. Maybe SD should just go with the 2-for1 coupon story.

Too much jargon could send her over the deep end, and could cause a shift in focus to the aformentioned UNDERWEAR brands. I would hate to cause her more grief, considering the all-consuming nature of the milk thingy...

Ohh, I forgot Bosco. A good old New Jersey syrup. It's what they used for blood in the original black and white "Night of the Living Dead" movie.

"uunnngggggggg brrrrrraaaaaains" Sounds like a wayward.

Hilarious!!

I'm not from the East Coast - I only remember that b/c it was George Castanza's ATM card PIN. Yeah, yeah, I'm a Seinfeld fan.