Oh, I know. The thing is, after everything, I'm still trying to spare her that. And the kids, of course.

Thanks for the thoughts, PM.

((((SD)))))

I'm there with you SD. After 6 months in Plan B I found out this week that WH filed for D. Took me right down the tubes. Dang, I was doing well too. It hurts like the dickens (as my grandma would say).

I'm like you though - I can't seem to let it go. I don't want to throw away 34 years, and I just can't convince myself that there isn't anything more that I can do.

Res - do you know where Dr. Harley's answer came from? I would like to read the entire question and answer if possible.

Post deleted by pomdbd3

Chai...according to Melody, it was on the MB weekend forum. Mel's full posting of it (I just took an excerpt) was on Ani269's thread at around 11 this morning. I'm not sure when he wrote it...

Thanks for stopping in, CL. And thanks pomdb3. I've seen you occasionally on Chrisner's thread but haven't figured out who you used to be. There's an email in my profile. Mostly it collects spam, but I check it from time to time.

The schedule you propose is pretty much what we have, except that instead of having full weekends, we have another switch on Sunday at noon. This is what the SCQ wants to get rid of.


Oh, I absolutely agree. My plan B has never been all that dark. It was dark enough that I never (rarely?) responded to her madness and LB'ed her, and I could handle the occasional alien outburst.

I refused to negotiate with her about weekends, though, and so finally she filed the motion with the court. Once she did that, the mediation at FCS was mandatory. I didn't really want to have the FTF, so I tried negotiating with her via email. It didn't work out.

I need to and want to be dark again. Darker. I want to be able to check my email without wondering whether there will be something from the SCQ that's going to set me off.

I feel a bit better tonight.

Sometimes when I post it's kind of an emotional discharge, and it comes out disjointed and may not say what I really mean. It doesn't help that proofreading bores me. So when I got the following from BR, I felt like clarifying, and so I figured I would share the clarification here.


I'm not giving up. I am taking things to a different stage and conserving my strength for a later time. She is the mother of my children, and I still love her. If I continue this way, I won't. Jennifer recommended sending her letters every other month. Right now, I'm not sure I could write one. In my recent posts, I haven't said anything about being Done, because I'm not.

And if I'm giving in, then it is calculated. I've pretty much decided to accept her proposal for the two full weekends a month schedule but not agree to full weekends. If I fight for no full weekends (the only way to prevent her from traveling with the OM and kids), I will lose. That much is just about guaranteed. So, her having some full weekends. . . is it really going to be that different than how it is now? Yes, she can travel, but he already spends the night, and has his kids spend the night. Of course it's evil and bad for them, but there's really nothing I can do about it.

Some full weekends would be better for me, too. Yeah, I'll have to go longer without seeing the kids, but, like I've said, I'm getting used to my alone time. It will be easier for me to plan full weekend activities with the kids.

Me fighting it is also drama-inducing. "If only that jerk SDGuy would let us have full weekends, why THEN we'd really be happy. We'd have it made THEN." Fine. Go for it. Live the dream. See how it works out for you.

It's not about appeasing her. It's about realizing that she wants it bad and I can't keep her from having it, so why fight so hard? It's the same with the divorce and stopping resistance. I have given her every opportunity to not go through with divorce, and she continues to move that way. I just want to get the next part over with so I can get dark again. There will still be opportunities to avoid actually being divorced.

When I talk about surrendering, it's not to the SCQ. It's letting go of fighting with God.

SD,

Oh my friend I so totally understand your struggle!

I just have to pop in to let you know that you are not alone. I am stuggling in very much the same way you are right now.

I am working on the Letting Go,,,,,still. I have to share with you my "goal". That is to enter into the Rest that God can provide for us. It is that place of letting go that BR is describing.

It is where we DO what is Right and then let it be. The bible tells us that we are to have faith, to step aside and let God handle our lives. That means the good and the bad. When we truly do this, we are able to enter that place of Rest. That place where we KNOW by faith that God is handling things. Where we KNOW that we need not worry. Where we KNOW we have no control and it is BEST left to Him and we allow him full control and power.

We do not WORRY and try to WORK to DO anything further about it. We enter that place of rest, knowing He is taking care of things. Not only do we not worry, we really cease to 'care' about the details of when, where, why or how He is dealing with the problem. We simply KNOW that the outcome will be to our best interest.

Hard, hard, hard!! Yes, but we have been there. Both of us have had glimpses of this peaceful place and we can get there again!

Having DD come home on her nights with Drac talking about having spent it at the ho's house,,,,,,,,,,,OUCH! Yet WHO hurts when I dwell on it? ME. Nobody else. Drac & the Ho believe they are making one happy little family. Does it hurt? Yes TERRIBLY. Yet I can do nothing about it. God can. That is HIS.

Yesterday, I wrote a VERY MEAN Valentine card that I wanted to send anonomously to the ho. Did I send it? No. Why not? Because it's not my place to BE like THEM. It's my place to follow God, to be the Better person and to let HIM deal with the adulterous ones. They wouldn't listen to me or care anyway. MY actions will not change them one little bit. Only God can do that.

So, we are both struggling. Yet we both know it can be and will be better. I'm keeping you in my prayers my friend!!


{{{SG}}}

Good morning Guy,

OH boy, can I relate to letting go. I practice it DAILY, sometimes by the hour. I also STRUGGLE with it daily. Why do I think *I* can make this WHOLE thing change? I can't; I can be a part of it changing, do my part, but I can't make it all better . The best thing I do now is soothe myself, love my son, and love PWC. Right now, I'm sure that he doesn't feel loved, because his version is total attention and admiration. I have a hard time admiring him when I come home to him being sauced. It's a daily fight with myself to LET GO, and not to take it upon myself to try and teach PWC something, or tell him of the mistakes I believe he's making.

I could go on and on. I gotta tell ya, sometimes I LONG for the darkness, I long for separation, I long to be free from this. My answer is coming. It won't be soem HUGE flashy answer, but it will come in it's own time.

I remember having every other weekend to myself, and although I did miss my son, I found the time to be good for me.

It was hard knowing that PWC could potentially have my son around Aimless on those weekends, and may have, and I did tell him of my concern, basically LBing him, but I needed the time to myself. I was exhausted all the time, and the down time gave me free reign to do whatever I needed to feel refreshed by Sunday evening.

None of us have the answer, we have our own experience. Mine has been that the darker I was, the healthier and happier I was.

SDG,

I thought of something that would be very unique, but it just might work and work well for you.

Why don't you and OMW team up legally and both approach the court requesting that your children be left out of this adulterous affair?

One person could seem bitter, but two teamed up together could have a lot of sway.

You can both say that you are looking out for the best interest of the kids and want to minimize their confusion. You both feel it's best to leave the kids out of the turmoil and that neither of you approve of each other's spouses around the children.

It was something that came to mind since you both seem to feel strongly about this.

I also think there would be a bad reaction to your kids bathing with his. That's just bizzare.

Finally, you should save all her angry voice messages. They can be used against her in court.

How true this is, Bugs.

Last night I was talking with a cousin I haven't seen in a long time. She used to be a marriage counselor (and is familiar with MB, which puts her one up in my book) and is interested, so I was giving her the whole story. Driving home after dropping them off at their hotel, I felt the peace.

It didn't last long, but it was like a breath of fresh air while it was there. This morning, I am back to the conversation in my head and the stomach and shoulder tightness and wanting to curl up under my desk.


It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would work. Maybe if we had tried it a year ago, but now it is over a year after the SCQ moved out. The POSOM moved out a year and a half ago. The CA courts may well consider the date of filing for divorce the date of the end of the marriage. I still consider myself married and people here will bristle at the thought that we are not, but it is clear that the infidels do not, and I'm not confident that they are the only ones. I think the only thing the court would have to say is "Why the ****** aren't you divorced yet?"

They are all-but-living-together and have been for a long time. So, yeah, it's wrong. Since there is really nothing I can do about it, I almost think it's better if I remove myself as a dramatic obstacle to The Happiness of the Infidels. Get out of their way and let them reap what they have sown.

But your children are being negatively affected by this. It's been two years since my divorce and my daughter asked me last night if I was still married to mommy. The marriage may be over on paper, but your kids don't think that way.

You MUST NOT spare her! She MUST be faced with the consequences of her own actions so that she learns from them.

They cannot get to her if you are standing between them. Visual that, every time you want to SAVE her.

I understand the protection of the children part - but that is also something you can't be responsible for. You are responsbile for your portion, but what their mother does is what their mother does. Continue to TEACH them what is right and wrong and let them make their own decisions. One day they will be in the world alone and will need those lessons.

Fox

I guess what I meant was that I'm trying to spare her all the pain that will hit her two years down the road when POSOM proves what he really is and she's left with nothing.

Your point is a good one, though, and is taken.

I would love for her to get smacked in the face by some consequences right now.

Things have calmed down quite a bit. With a couple of more emails, we reached an agreement and were able to avoid court. I didn't have to give up anything beyond what the mediator had already ruled for, which I was basically okay with. It was stressful, but I survived.

I really didn't want to go to court over this, when I would likely lose and get even more frustrated with the California courts (and their "no-fault" indifference toward infidelity) and have to pay for it, so this is all a relief. Today was the court date.

I'm trying to find the calm place again and reside there. I'm also gearing up to send the SCQ another "It doesn't have to be this way" letter, as per Jennifer's instructions.
I think I can do this without violating my calm. It might even help me stay calm.

Thanks for the update, Guy. Glad to hear you survived and didn't have to take a loss. Court is so frustrating with the "no-fault" crapola.

I'm also glad to hear you are still counseling with Jennifer. This has been a long road for you - it's interesting to know that Jennifer still sees hope.

Fox

HI SD!!!

Thanks for the update! Been wondering how you were doing. Glad to see the first round is over and you can get back to being in a DARK plan B with some PEACE!!

But tell me, if you are in Plan B, why are you writing letters? Does Jennifer know you are supposed to be in Plan B or have you not actually gone there yet?

Sorry, just wanted to be sure about the details...

(((((SDGuy))))))

Thanks for asking, LaLa.

I have been in Plan B for about 14 months now. It has been an admittedly porous one in that it hasn't been as dark as some, but it has been under Jennifer's supervision. And it has served its main purpose, because at 14 months I am still willing (and sometimes eager) to reconcile. Plus, I haven't Plan FU'ed her.

Jennifer told me some time ago that if the SCQ comes back, it won't be because of anything I do. It's all about the OM and has been since the beginning, and my job is to wait on the sidelines for the affair to collapse.

Why the letters? As Jennifer says, at this point, there's nothing to lose. The divorce seems imminent ("when you're staring down the barrel of the gun" is Jennifer's line). She says the only thing at stake is my pride, and we're not worried about that.

I'm not sure whether Jennifer would recommend this for everyone or whether it's because I have described the SCQ as an extremely passive, stubborn person and that I'm not sure she would take the initiative to actually come back.

Jennifer said she expects the letters will be largely ignored, but we're hoping that they will still be in her mind when the affair does crumble.

In terms of recommendations, it was the strongest thing I got from Jennifer at our last session. That's the strategy as I understand it. Questions are welcome.

Hi SD

Just read about how things are going for you. Hopefully things will turn around. I always think about you and your situation. I am continuing my Plan B as well. It's not as dark as it should be. I get tired of all the criticism my sorry Plan B gets. My problem is my WH always says somewhat positive things. We got into a little discussion around tax time and I asked if he was ever going to move home..his reply I don't know. Then he got angry because he thinks I'm dating and when I stated I was faithful to him and brought up the fact that he had an affair he yelled "that was long time ago!" So I wonder what Jennifer would say if the affair is over but WH hasn't moved back home or talked about getting back together? I wonder if I should kinda Plan A again? Let him remember the good or continue Plan B even though it's not the darkest? What do you think. Jennifer has seemed to counsel us in similar ways.

Ani

Thanks for stopping by, Ani. I check your thread from time to time but sometimes it's easier to not post so much.

So, I have come to believe that WHs and WWs are different creatures. I think WHs are much more likely to want to cake-eat and string both sides along. Because of this, I think it's that much more important for BWs to be as dark as possible. Thus, I would probably be telling you the same things--every time you have communication, you undermine your plan B.

My sanity is much better when I am having no contact with the SCQ. Every contact is an opportunity to get triggered. You started out talking about taxes, but you took the opportunity to look over the fence (Is the Fog lifting yet? Are you ever coming home?). Totally understandable, but it put him into a conflicted place (WS's don't like to feel conflicted--it makes them feel bad), so he lashed out at you with what he had at hand (you're dating!), which triggered you enough to bring up the affair, which is a pretty huge LB. Better to resist the temptation by just having no contact at all.

But that's not what you asked. Are you sure the affair is over? How do you know? My sense is that if you're *positive* the affair is over, it might be time to go back to a Plan A. There's plenty of risk associated with that, so I would definitely consult with Jennifer or Steve before undertaking anything like that. *My* best advice is to make your Plan B darker and thus protect both yourself and your WH.

That and examine yourself. Have you tried to figure out your own behaviors that contributed to the state of the marriage that made the affair possible? We all take a quick look at this, but often a deeper look is required. BrambleRose was very good at helping people with this. Did you have some behaviors that really pushed him away, and are you still doing them?

Hope that helped. Remember, it's just one Guy's opinion. Thanks again for stopping in.

Hi SD,

Just wanted to stop by and offer support. I've been working with Jennifer too, and have the same direction, although I haven't quite convinced myself to send that last letter. At this point it feels like begging to me. She told me the same thing - what have you got to lose?

I guess what I am most afraid of is that it won't deter future A's. If he thinks that he can go away, try it out and always come back, what is the incenetive.

I dunno. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Mine has been so hostile though. This whole D thing is getting ugly, so it will make it hard to recover. Jennifer says to give his atty a bag with a gift in it and the letter.

Will think more about it.

You've been in Plan B sooo long. I admire your patience...