coughlin, i gotta say, as much as it sucks, agg is right on on this one.
(and if you know the love/hate relationship i have with agg, you will know it is only on rare occassion i actually agree with him and don't think he is being a stick in the mud!)

if you pick apart your posts and what you say you will see what we see.

envision a future with this woman... ok, so somehow you two marry. you equal security and someone who is easily controlled and manipulated to her very immature mind. because of the age difference and different "generations" if you will, you two will most likely never see eye to eye on things. it is a quick wedding of just you two because she still doesn't want you around her friends her own age. she settles in for a short while but gets the itch to hang with her friends and the texts in front of you to other "male friends" starts. of course now that she has married you she has you EXACTLY where she wants to. plus, you let her get away with treating you that way before marriage so she knows she can now.

i see coughlin sitting home alone many a-night while his "office catch" is out having fun with her younger friends and continuing the games.

as my mother always says (and i put this in another post earlier) "a leopard doesn't change it's spots"

this is your future with this girl coughlin. if this is what you want, than go for it. but we know this is not what you want nor what is healthy for you! if it was you would be calling her right now. if it was you would be pursuing her. but you know in your mind and heart that that is not what you want. you know a relationship with her is not healthy.

if we could get your mind and heart in sink, we might be able to work with you here.

mlhb

'mind-set'

A fixed mental attitude or disposition that predetermines a person's responses to and interpretations of situations.

(source) American Heritage Dictionary

I am getting this bronzed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

yea yea, don't be getting a big head over there! once in awhile you are right.

mlhb

Or better yet, let her go get her head straight with guys her own age and quit trying to use her for the feelings she evokes in you.

When people become obsessed with another person it is because there is a space inside of them they want that other person to fill.

In your case Coughlin you want to feel the way she makes you feel. Has nothing to do with her. If you cared about her at all, other than just wanting her, you would not be sleeping with her. You would see that she is messed up.

How selfish of you. And you have it confused with love. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Sorry for the harshness, but Committed and GreenGables hit it right on the head I think. I was a young girl once with a very messed up idea of life and got used by guys for how I made THEM feel.

Take some time alone Coughlin. Make yourself happy and then you will be able to bring to a woman. A man brings, a woman receives. This is our nature.

Shoot, can anyone remember the name of that book about what a man needs. Pepperband had a thread going over on Infidelity a year or so ago...Excellent book Coughlin. You should pick up a copy. Oh, "Wild at Heart". Excellent book!

Hi Everyone, I got a phone call from her last night. We talked and it was real nice and light and friendly. It wasn't a booty call! She told me what she's been up to these past few weeks and said it's felt like a long time. Wanted to get together for some coffee but I couldn't commit to it because of how busy I am this week. Said she wanted to talk to me last week but never got a chance. She asked if I would be in the office because she wanted to give me a little gift. Said she has been stressed out lately with work. She asked me what I've been up to and I had to cut her short because I had a friend over but I said it was nice to hear from her.

Here's the thing everyone. I realize that I moved to quickly into a physical relationship with pretty much everyone I date and therefore I never get to establish a foundation of respect and caring. I'm reading Dr. Phil's book, Relationship Rescue if you couldn't tell.

Anywho, I really want this, not need this, to be a healthy, long-lasting relationship. I think I handled things well last night and I believe people can change and I feel like I've learned alot about myself lately. The question is, has she? I hope you all can give me some advice on how to know whether or not it could work and how to proceed.

As a side note, the new girl has called and texted me every day since I told her that I wanted to take things slow and that I just got out of a relationship, or whatever you wanna call it. She asked me if it's possible that I could get back together with my ex and if she should continue to date other people. Yes, I know the second part of that question was a trick and no, I didn't fall for it. And I'll be honest, I didn't appreciate it.

Any thoughts on this series of events?

I'd guess a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE of us here at MB know that feeling all too well. Personally, I have waited for over 3 years for WH to stop his childish, selfish, distructive behaviour. I've waited hoping he could/would or would even want to change. MY goodness, I have wasted 3+ years of MY LIFE on a man that cannot/will not grow-up. Who cannot/will not look in the mirror and see how EMPTY his life is, how sleeping with everyone/anyone is NOT what life should be at 53 years old. How hurting others hurts him too, but I do believe he has a major character flaw, he doesn't "feel" like some of us do.

You say you are "too old" aren't you like 34??? My goodness try being 49 and starting over. Or so emotionally damaged by a partner, that you don't know how to have a functional relationship, because you spent too many years in a dysfunctional one..

Believe me I truly know how hard it is to WAIT and WAIT and get your heart broken over and over again..Do you want that??
and I know how hard it is to move forward too, many times I have taken 3 steps forward in leaving him and 10 steps back..It can be done, but it takes everything inside of you and the support of family and friends to get you through and heck you two don't have a history of 12+ years..that's when it's even harder..

I don't know HOW either, you take each day and focus on you, do something that makes you happy, fulfilled w/o this woman/girl...do something for others that they appreciate and it will make you feel good too..You can move forward and forget all about her, many of us here have had to do that because it's what's best for us, not because we really wanted to...

Get some books on relationships, hang out with couples that have a good relationship maybe that will help you "see" what you should be "looking" for in a partner...

HUGS...........................

i have read and worked through relationship rescue in my marriage. i HOPE you are not reading it to salvage anything with that girl. if you are reading it for you so that you can forge forward into healthy relationships in the future than great, DON'T BE READING IT TO FORGE FORWARD WITH HER.

i am not surprised at all she called you. i would not have taken her call personally. tread very carefully as she knows exactly what she is doing. i am a woman coughlin, and we can be very calculating trust me. we can have agendas big time. i know how we think. this is a point a try to get across to gekko all the time and i think he is finally seeing that i am right. there are some women you just must watch out for. office girl is one of them.

i will NOT give you advice on how to proceed into an unhealthy relationship. none of us here will do that. i am very surprised you keep asking us to approve of her and tell you how to proceed in a healthy way with her. that ain't gonna happen.

as far as the other woman you spent time with. should you have slept with her on the first date? my opinion, no, but stuff happens. could you still proceed with her more slowly? sure, but you need to get yourself together before you date anyone. and her asking about whether or not she should date others or if you could go back to office girl? i completely see where she is coming from! she is trying to protect her heart!!! sex is emotional for most women (i don't think it is for office girl, but that is because she is only 23), this 30 something woman, i am sure it was emotional for her. it is an attachment. it is a very personal sharing. obviously you have talked to her enuff about office girl that she feels she needs to know where she stands with you. i see nothing wrong with her asking this. altho this early on neither one should commit to one person yet, but honestly,i am a one person at a time dater so i get that. she does not want to get too attached to you coughlin just to have you drop her because office girl flashes you a come hither smile.

until you are over office girl i would not bring any one else into the picture, you are just going to hurt them. probably unintentionally, but it will happen and i am sure you don't want to do that.

there was the possibility of someone else in the picture early on when gekko and i first started out. my words to him? "i will not allow myself to get any closer to you or let any more of my walls down with you until you know exactly what you want and what you are looking for" it was for self protection! didn't mean he couldn't date others, just meant i would only allow myself so close until we were in an exclusive relationship. and when we decided we would be, i let it all down.

i can see where this woman is coming from completely. and the calls and texts? well, you shared sex and it obviously was meaningful to her. to let her feel used coughlin. talk to her honestly but gently. if you insist on dating right now (which i don't think you should be) my money is on 30 something over office girl any day.

mlhb

Hi Everyone, I got a call from her last night. We talked and it was real nice and light and friendly. It wasn't a booty call! She told me what she's been up to these past few weeks and said it's felt like a long time. Wanted to get together for some coffee but I couldn't commit because of how busy I am this week. Said she wanted to talk to me last week at the party but never got a chance. She asked if I would be in the office because she wanted to give me alittle gift. She said she has been stressed out lately with work. She asked what I've been up to and I had to cut it short becaue I had a friend over but I told her it was nice to hear form her.

Here's the thing everyone. I realize that I moved too quickly into a physical relationship with pretty much everyone I date and therefore I never get to establish a foundation of respect and caring. I'm reading Dr. Phil's book, Relationship Rescue, if you couldn't tell.

Anywho, I really want this-not need this-to be a healthy, long-lasting relationship. I realize she didn't say that's what she wanted and I accept that. I think I handled things well last night and I believe people can change and I feel like I've learned alot about myself lately. The question is, has she? I hope you all can give me advice on how to know whther or not it could work and how to proceed.

As a side note, the new girl has called and texted me every day since I told her that I wanted to take things slow and that I just wanted to take things slow and date and that I just got out of a relationship, or whatever you all want to call it. She asked me if it's possible that I could get back together with my ex and if she should continue to date other people. Yes, I know the second part of that question was a trick and no, I didn't fall for it. And I'll be honest, I didn't appreciate it.

Any thoughts on this series of events?

"As a side note, the new girl has called and texted me every day since I told her that I wanted to take things slow and that I just wanted to take things slow and date and that I just got out of a relationship, or whatever you all want to call it. She asked me if it's possible that I could get back together with my ex and if she should continue to date other people. Yes, I know the second part of that question was a trick and no, I didn't fall for it. And I'll be honest, I didn't appreciate it."

Couple of questions for you....are you returning text messages and phone calls every day to this new girl? How was the second part of her question a trick? She just wants to know where she stands. She was being honest and open...I don't understand why you didn't appreciate it?

Trick question? Sounds like it was a sane one, although the lady obviously knew the answer, she was hoping for a different one.

So, if you didn't "fall for it," what did you do? Not answer her? I think you owe her an honest answer. "If office girl asked, I'd be hers in a minute."

As for Office Girl, whether she's learned anything, whether you've learned anything, how would I know? It doesn't seem like you've learned a darn thing.

Personally, I'm in Weaver's camp on this. You and Office Girl are using each other. Office Girl has some major issues to work through and you are making use of them for your own ends rather than protecting her.

Greengables, what are you talking about? How am I using her? How have I not learned anything? I'm asking that you clue me into what I should look out for in order to see that she has changed. Basically, I wanna know what a healthy relationship looks like.

I don't want to be in a relationship with this new girl because I still have feelings for the other one. I told her that she can date anyone she wants and that it's possible that I might get back together with ex. I also said she can do whatever she wants in terms of dating other people.

coughlin
what you have with office girl is not healthy.there is not one thing you have shown us about her that is healthy. and even, by very microscopic chances she might have changed at all, you are too blinded by her in general to be able to see them.

a leopard doesn't change its spots. at 23 she is going to act 23. at 34 or whatever it is you are you should be acting 30 something.

a healthy relationship is 2 people who deeply care for eachother and want the same things. healthy is talking and acting like adults. healthy is mutual respect. healthy is not putting sex into the equation until you are in a mutually committed relationship. healthy is knowing both families and all sets of friends and not being ashamed or embarrassed to bring your bf/gf around them. healthy is not flirting with other guys in front of guy who you know has feelings for you. healthy is not being wishy washy. get the picture cough?

let her go and be her 23 year old self. she is too young to commit to one man, let alone one so much older than her. if you truly care about her, let her go, let her find someone her own age, let her find herself on her own, don't have sex with her, stop messing with both of your heads. this is not healthy for her either. what is she were your daughter coughlin and she was in a sitch with and doing to some older guy what this girl is doing to you? wouldn't you want your daughter as far away from that mess as possible? wouldn't you want her to be free and young and have fun?

let her go for the 9 thousandth time, she is NOT going to change any time soon. she is acting 23 coughlin. she is not going to mature and act like a 30 something until she is 30 something!

mlhb

Yeah, you go Coughlin! That slimy, manipulating, tricky witch... How dare she ask you about what's on your mind after what, only one night of sex?? The nerve!

You are so smart not to fall for that childish behavior Coughlin, you have truly learned a lot!

Stick to the lower drama level of the office girl, she is the better one to bring home to mother and to have by your side when the times get tough. We have clearly seen how mature and wise and dependable she is. I think we all agree on that part, right mlhb?

AGG

yes, agg, i have a lot of love and fondness for young women in their early 20's. ;-)

mlhb

Hehe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Did you notice how upbeat and positive and uncritical my post was? I thought you'd appreciate that!

AGG

That's age decrimination--I'm gonna have to report the both of you. Seriously though, I will try not to look into what happened last night with my ex. I will try and be patient and build a solid foundation. I will not accept anything less than the things you mentioned mlhb. I have to say though that everyone is different and I know women her age that are in fully committed relationships so it's not like it can't happen. It's just case specific I guess.

I'm alittle disappointed because I honestly thought it was a great sign that she called me and it's what I've been waiting for. I don't want to take advantage of her and I don't want to get in the way of her growing. I just wanna be with her. I know it sounds selfish. Just don't think I would be able to say no, if she wanted to be in a relationship with me.

I did, it was awesome AGG. If I were any less alert today, I may have misinterpreted it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well you are ignoring me Coughlin, but I will restate how you are using this very, very young woman -

She is young, exciting (to a certain emotional level), messed up, horny...you get the picture.

And you are older and should know better than to sleep with her. She cries afterward???????? Does that not make you see that having sex with her is not a good thing?

Has she changed? Gawd you better hope not, because then she will have nothing to do with you, if and when she does get it together.

What's wrong with you?

I am starting to get ticked off. A grown man your age, waiting around for a messed up little girl...sleeping with her.

Disgusting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I said it in nicer ways, more compassionate and empathetic ways on previous threads of yours, but to no avail as you have seemingly ignored them.

Be a man and stay away from her, get therapy and keep your zipper zipped until you can stop doing damage.

And send the 34 yo here to read what she is getting messed up in.

Coughlin, you are using the office girl like a drug. With her, you have no real risk of a serious relationship, yet you get the excitement and adrenaline rush of the push-me-pull-me game. You also get sex. You get to be involved in high drama and are the center of an office saga. You get to feel flatter that someone at the exact right age to be a Coors Light girl wants to have sex with you. You get to feel virile. You get sex.

What seems to be missing are things like, “I love how curious she is.” “She’s amazing at her job.” “She’s great at handling this really crotchety geezer.” “She has an eclectic taste in music.” You get the picture. I have no sense of who this girl is other than a flighty 23 year old. And, even 23 year olds have more to them than that. Even though I didn’t follow AGG’s story all the way through, I had a much better sense of G as full-formed person.

I think you are attracted to what this young woman represents and how she makes you feel. I’m not sure you couldn’t substitute in any other beautiful young woman who likes to flirt and has big issues.

That’s what I mean about using her.

As to saying you haven’t learned anything… Have you read what you’ve posted? Have you compared it with what you wrote two weeks ago? They are almost identical. Have you really considered how you treat women from any point other than the effect it has on your life? In fact, have you considered any of your actions as they affect others for better or worse?

Hey, you've got me all wrong. I'm not using this girl. This girl is amazing. I respect her work ethich--she is an overachiever, preppy person from the same state as me with similiar private highschooling. She is self-confessed dork who prefers to stay in rather then stay out late at the clubs. She is an individual who is true to herself and doesn't care how other people think she is too serious. She likes to travel and hang out by the lake. She loves nature and doesn't shower for days and yet you wouldn't be able to tell--although I can. She talks in her sleep about work and is absolutely the most intimate/open hearted person I know. She has this goofy side that likes to pull pranks and joke around. She likes action movies over chick flicks. She likes to travel and read historical novels. She is a picky eater that counts calories and knows entirely to much useless info about food. We enjoy a lot of the same things although I'm more business casual.

I treat women with lots of attention and affection. There are times when I need to be alone in order to refuel and I'm a free spirit. I can go to the movies or on vacation by myself. I don't have a lot of friend bu the few that I have are the type that you can count on as much as a family member.

I hope this gives you a better idea of who I am and who she is. She's not just a flighty girl. She has substance and I respect her for who she is not what she represents.