jrobin, my H said pretty much everything from:
-he had never loved me
-he didn't love me
-he loved me but wasn't in love with me
-he did love me but didn't want to be married to me

After our last reconciliation (the longest separation was the last one at 5 months, but we were separated 14 out of 21 months total), he said he had never stopped loving me.

Well, there were moments in those 2 years I was no longer fond of him either. But, when he realized I was finally leaving whatever was left of us after those 2 years, he didn't want our marriage to end.

We had a great counselor. Not Steve, but a local Christian counselor.

Lor-How did you handle the separation? Did you see each other a lot during the separation or not? Did you talk a lot? We have no plan for reconciliation at this point and that scares me

My husband is coming to pick up our son in a couple hours to spend the day with ihm and I really dont know how to act. Should I try to get him to talk or just act like I am fine without him right now (which I dont really feel) tell him I love him, I just dont know what to do-this will be the 1st time he has come to get son since all this happened.

Also I told my son to be honest with his dad if he asks him how he is doing-I didnt tell him what to say just to be honest-my son is afraid of hurting his dads feelings.

jrobin, until the last separation, when I finally put up some boundaries, we saw each other or talked everyday, sometimes a few times during the day. Even though he did move back & forth between home and his friend's house, unless he was home, we didn't talk about reconciliation.

He & OW worked in the same complex. They still do. But, she married his best friend, the one he lived with...awkward...and anytime H might have to deal with her, he passes her off to someone else.

But, ongoing contact was a huge problem before she moved onto the BF and initiated some of our separations.

I'm sure Steve will have some advice on how to handle this separation, but things that I think were good:

-I asked H to call before he came over
-I asked him not to go into our house if the kids or I weren't home
-I set up regular visitation for him with the kids and I wasn't with them, even though sometimes the visitation was at our house because he really couldn't take them to BF's house and the mall & pizza places didn't work when they had homework to accomplish.

There should be consequences to your H choosing to move out. His place at the dinner table doesn't exist if you haven't invited him. You can of course in Plan A be kind and invite him.

His/your family life has changed because he decided on a course of action that changed it. At some point he needs to realize that he isn't going to be able to trot around with the OW like a single man--not to mention to feel like he has a right to tell you not to talk about that aspect of his life!--and also slip into his place at the dining room table like he isn't creating all this havoc.

You may want to wait until after the holidays or your trip to implement your responses. Certainly, talk to Steve.

My husband came and got our son and I was really nervous but it went ok. He sat downstairs for a little while petting the dog and then came upstair which is where we were and said hi how was I? I said fine and then we all went downstairs-beofre they left he gave me abig hug and kiss and buried his face in my neck. I know I shouldnt read too much into it but it does give me hope. Why would he do that if he didnt love me anymore??? I know this is wrong too but it's like I will take any little crumb from him. He is bringing our son back in about 4 hours.

I have a new question-one of my friends that is a strong christian woman and my sons Sunday school teacher wants to call me husband to talk to him about what he's doing. Has anyone tried this approach? In the past a few of the guys from church have called him and he was very defensive. I dont know if it will come across different coming from her or it's a big mistake. Any thought?

Another thought-since my husband is not living at home because he decided that he could not give up "friendship"with other woman. He admitted they have kissed and hugged and when my boss talked to her she said that it was an "innocent" one time kiss. Yes I did tell her husband and he believes her. Another thing my husband has said is that he doesnt love me like he should and that when he was out last weekend a girl flirted with him and he wanted to flirt back and that there was a cute girl he saw at the movie. Does this sound like if he cant be with OW he will try to find someone else? Is that common? OW is out of town for 2 weeks but that doesnt mean they cant have cell phone contact.

I am thinking about hiring PI to see if I can get evidence of PA -but like I said he's not living here anymore. Would it be a mistake to tell him that we want him to move back? I dont know if it was wrong to tell him that I needed him to have no contact with her or to get out. He chose to get out. According to Tough Love bu James Dobson this is appropriate action but it feels wrong right now.

Any opinions from anyone thats been there?


I have appt with Steve Harley Monday morning.

Jen

Get him home and try to "work" on him. Try and get him to "love" you like he should. Work to get OW out of your life. Compete against her for now. You will win.

Expose the flirting. Remove the fantasy of it. How?

Example:

Your family is out at the mall. You catch his eye wandering, you say:

BS: You flirting....AGAIN?

WS: I am not flirting?

BS: Oh yea? Then why is there a bulge in your pants?

WS: Ssshhhh.... stop talking so loud.

BS: Why? I thought you liked to flirt, isn't that what you tell other people? (Use phrases like 'other people' when referencing the OW - Give him that bewildered look). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

WS: Well I wasn't flirting.

BS: hm.... (no more responses, you have to let the fact that you are doubting him...sink in).

Time passes a few days or hours..... you are at a restaurant:

BS: (roll your eyes)..... Ws, r u flirting...AGAIN?

WS: No.

BS: Hm....... (point to his pants)....then maybe we ought to take you to the doctor because you've got an unusal growth going on. Some sort of 'dysfunction'? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Ws: No... (watch as he tries to minimize the bulge in his pants.


Now why do this? Because when he tries t/b a WS again, the mental image of the BS popping out of nowhere and embarressing him will haunt his very being. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That's a good thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

How do I get him home?? What do I say? Im sure he is going to the bars right now with friends and he is loving it. What if he says he doesnt want to come home because he doesnt love me like that anymore and hasnt made a decision about anything.

How long do I give him to decide what he wants to do as I sit home and try to pick up the pieces of his son while he is out flirting and trying to pick up other girls along with OW?

Orchid: Here's the real question: Why would you want a WS in your home. They reek of the A, act stupid and cruel, take $$, show no care, no loyalty and no responsiblity. Sounds awful? It is. After I got over the shock at what my WS had done to our family, to me and our M, I was furious. I learned about the 5 stages of grieving and learned that I was in for 1 wild and crazy roller coaster ride of emotions. The sooner I learned to get them in check (mind and heart in sync) the better. It took a while, for me approx 3 1/2 months from d/d. When my mind and heart did go in sync, I was able to tell the WS to take a hike.


Orchid: As long as YOU need to get YOUR mind and heart in sync. You MUST give yourself the time and not rush this process. In the interim, arm yourself with the tools we have been discussing. Learn plans A & B, secure your finances, strengthen your support group, identify YOUR boundaries and if you have children - reassure them of your love and loyalty (no matter how young they are). Get your children help. Make them a part of your support group and be a part of theirs. EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE!!!

Learn how to reverse babble so you can give the WS back their guilt. Expect trouble. Be prepared.

Learn the WS' weakness and learn to use their own A tools against them. The WS and OP unite to fight against the BS and family. So it isn't about your H, it is against the combined forces of 2 characters you don't know very well.

Despite the odds, you will survive.

L.

How do I learn WS weakness? What do you mean? Your right why do I want him in my home. It's just so scary thinking he is out doing who knows what.

Orchid are you still with your husband?

OMG - and the boss bought that? Her H bought that as well?

A question for others Hs on the forum - how would you feel if your W told you that she shared an "innocent, one-time" kiss with another man?

Sometimes I think infidelity is a bit like a brain-virus - makes everyone that comes into contact with it lose a bit of their common sense.

Yeah - they ALL bought it. I have never had an innocent kiss with a man. Thats not to say they only had 1 kiss but that all she is admitting to.

Sometimes I wonder if I'd discovered my FWW's A at the "first kiss" point, if she would have tried to explain it off as an innocent kiss. I honestly think she would have tried to do so. I wonder also if I would have been stupid enough to buy her explanation? I certainly was stupid enough to buy her explanation for a few other things while the A was going on...

Yes, it looks like I caught that particular "virus" for awhile too...

If it was "innocent" they wouldn't have to HIDE it.

If you have to hide it...it's wrong...period.

I agree if they have to hide it theres something wrong-but they hid everything-he hid his "friendship" with her from the very beginning. I told him that the other day too and he said because I would not have been comfortable with it.

I also feel that even if they were just friends if I am uncomfortable with it he needed to stop it. He refused which shows there was more than friendship in my opinion. So he moved out because he said he couldnt treat me the way I deserved and wanted to be treated.

IOW, he valued that friendship more than he valued your M.

IOW, it's an A.

If it's affecting his place at your side in your' M it's an A!!!!

If you perceive it as wrong it is!!!!

He won't admit it.


IMO You need to get busy, Investigate, Expose and Protect You!!!!!!

Shake their world hard then let it all fall where it will.

You will come out stronger for it.

Orchid: WS' weaknesses - their need to be selfish, hostile, angry and antagonistic. Like the way you are suppose to turn into an oil slick...you can do the same with the WS. WS' are short sighted at best. He starts to get hostile, angry or antagonistic....let him. You walk away. If you have to communicate with him, do it on your terms not his. Do NOT try to teach him anything.

Another WS weakpoint is they are NOT patient. Like a spoiled child they push and push the BS often t/d the WS' own dirty work. Do NOT let the WS guilt you into enabling the A or anything else.

Learn to hold your head up, look the WS in the eye when speaking to him. You can tell a lot by looking into his eyes. If he can't look back, he is lying (unless he is a good liar but most WS' can't keep focused to long).

Know that the WS takes time to digest simple questions and commands. Mine used to take between 3 - 7 days to respond to a simple question.

You can outlast him.


Orchid: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yes. I decided to keep him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.